Isn't this going to royally piss off the Israili's because there was an Israeli member on the ship?
-- mrcodedude
-- mrcodedude
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
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And what was Kuwait? Had we left him alone then, Saudi Arabia or Iran would have come next, but we put up a nice big Stop sign. If Saddam had the capability, he would try to dominate the Middle East. That's the point of making sure he doesn't ever have that capability. And if he wants to lie about it, then we go show him the truth.
shinerburke:
Funny you should speak about dancing around the facts, because I see nothing in your post that refutes or even speaks of the points I made re: Germany. If you'd like I can provide plenty of examples that prove my point...would you? I'd like to hear how you can argue the fact that in invading Iraq, the United States is ALONE. Bush has said many times that he is WILLING TO GO TO WAR WITHOUT SUPPORT FORM ANYONE. If that's not gung-ho compared to WWII, I'm not sure what is...
Funny you should speak about dancing around the facts, because I see nothing in your post that refutes or even speaks of the points I made re: Germany. If you'd like I can provide plenty of examples that prove my point...would you? I'd like to hear how you can argue the fact that in invading Iraq, the United States is ALONE. Bush has said many times that he is WILLING TO GO TO WAR WITHOUT SUPPORT FORM ANYONE. If that's not gung-ho compared to WWII, I'm not sure what is...
<< And what was Kuwait? Had we left him alone then, Saudi Arabia or Iran would have come next, but we put up a nice big Stop sign. If Saddam had the capability, he would try to dominate the Middle East. That's the point of making sure he doesn't ever have that capability. And if he wants to lie about it, then we go show him the truth. >>
Funny how we like to pick and choose times to be righteous...it's the RIGHT THING TO DO to stop the invasion of Kuwait, why? Perhaps because there is one of the world's largest oil reserves in that region. What about all the other places in the world where countries and people are being oppressed? the Kurds, the Armenians, the Chechens, the Tibetans, the list goes on and on...
We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we play international cop for everyone, or we stay out of it like Monroe suggested...
Funny how we like to pick and choose times to be righteous...it's the RIGHT THING TO DO to stop the invasion of Kuwait, why? Perhaps because there is one of the world's largest oil reserves in that region. What about all the other places in the world where countries and people are being oppressed? the Kurds, the Armenians, the Chechens, the Tibetans, the list goes on and on...
We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we play international cop for everyone, or we stay out of it like Monroe suggested...
I did not compare Saddam to Hitler. You asked for an example of where the US had helped to restore a government after a war. You got two.
You are correct about leaving Britain to pretty much go it alone in WWII for so long. The US had to wait until it was attacked before it joined into the war.
It does make for an interesting parallel.
edit/
I keep forgetting to add. As much distaste as I feel for the people in Iraq that are expressing joy or satisfaction at the Challenger tragedy it is not a justifiable or sufficient reason to attack Iraq.
wnied
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 4,206
- 0
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I suspect all the kooks will be coming out of the woodwork to proclaim their own ideas as to why the shuttle disintegrated over Texas of all places with the FIRST Israeli astronaut onboard.
It's a sad day to begin with, you only make it more so listening to those morons and their rhetoric.
~wnied~
It's a sad day to begin with, you only make it more so listening to those morons and their rhetoric.
~wnied~
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
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Ok, then use Japan as an example. We did that one pretty much by ourselves. Went in, setup a government for them that made the people much more free, built their infastructure, and made them the country they are today. Had it not been for our help in rebuilding their country they would most likely be no better off than...ohh....let's say Cambodia. Same can be said for Germany. Heard of the Marshall Plan? You know....that massive amount of $ we spent rebuilding Europe.
As for Hussein not being the next Hitler, you're right. He has the ability to be worse due to the weapons he has at his disposal.
etech:
Okay, there's two...now how about...
Iran from 1953 to the late 70's, the shah fiasco? The U.S. installs a brutal ruler whose secret police murder and indefinitely detain (sound familiar?) its own citizens with C.I.A. backing in order to secure oil for the United States. He's overthrown by a popular revolution and the United States' influence is ousted. And we wonder why the Iranians hate us...
Iraq beginning in 1958, the United States shifts its support to an extremist faction (Ba'th) who eventually stage a coup and place SADDAM HUSSEIN in power. Now he's come back to bite us in the ass...
Afghanistan in 1995, the U.S. government funds and supplies the TALIBAN with weapons, ammunition, training and troops to end an Afghani civil war. Funny how things seem to go full circle, isnt it?
Okay, there's two...now how about...
Iran from 1953 to the late 70's, the shah fiasco? The U.S. installs a brutal ruler whose secret police murder and indefinitely detain (sound familiar?) its own citizens with C.I.A. backing in order to secure oil for the United States. He's overthrown by a popular revolution and the United States' influence is ousted. And we wonder why the Iranians hate us...
Iraq beginning in 1958, the United States shifts its support to an extremist faction (Ba'th) who eventually stage a coup and place SADDAM HUSSEIN in power. Now he's come back to bite us in the ass...
Afghanistan in 1995, the U.S. government funds and supplies the TALIBAN with weapons, ammunition, training and troops to end an Afghani civil war. Funny how things seem to go full circle, isnt it?
Why did the US support the Shah or Iran over the other leader. Was the US the only western power that was involved in that?
I haven't seen evidence that the US supported the Ba'th party. It may be there, I haven't seen it. Got a link? You are aware of how Saddam rose to power aren't you?
The US was not supporting the Taliban. The 'Taliban' as an organzation did not fight in the war against the Soviets.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
- 0
To further those points...
The Shah was overthrown by Muslim extremists. I highly suspect the stories of his so called cruelty were greatly exaggerated.
Never heard the Ba'th Party story before. I would like to see some proof.
Like etech said, the U.S. was not supporting the Taliban. We armed the Mujahadin(or however you spell it) in their fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Guess you would prefer Afghanistan to have been rules by Communists.
Russian invansion was over long before 1995. Taliban did not exist when the us was supplies arms for the mujahadeen *sp* when they were fighting the russians. After that was over, the US was the largest supplier of aid to afganistan.
To the three of you..read carefully, I said that the United States supported the Taliban in an Afghani Civil war, not the revolution against Russia/USSR. This war is in 1995, post-Russian Afghanistan. And I'll go look for some proof about the other things, look here in a few hours
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
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Show me some proof from a reputable news source. I don't want to see a link to one of the whack job sites hagbard links to, I want a REAL news source.Originally posted by: konichiwa
To the three of you..read carefully, I said that the United States supported the Taliban in an Afghani Civil war, not the revolution against Russia/USSR. This war is in 1995, post-Russian Afghanistan. And I'll go look for some proof about the other things, look here in a few hours
Originally posted by: konichiwa
To the three of you..read carefully, I said that the United States supported the Taliban in an Afghani Civil war, not the revolution against Russia/USSR. This war is in 1995, post-Russian Afghanistan. And I'll go look for some proof about the other things, look here in a few hours
No, we did not. Please show the proof, as we only provided humanitarian aid and not directly to the afgan goverment.
We should show them God's furry with the fire from his hands. Why the hell would anyone even say crap like this. Sh!tdam has to go and go now. Screw the UN, launch the dam tomahawks and get this thing rolling.
<-- Emotions are running high, please excuse violent behaviors.
Edit: If that article about Iraq was to get out right now into the mainstream news media, then the polls to attack would be around 90% saying go get them.
<-- Emotions are running high, please excuse violent behaviors.
Edit: If that article about Iraq was to get out right now into the mainstream news media, then the polls to attack would be around 90% saying go get them.
We do not need to kill the Iraqi citizens. We need to go to war and kick the sh*t out of their military and march right in and get Hussein. He is the problem. Their government is the problem. If the iraqi people celebrate something like this it is out of ignorance.
This war will start immediately after Powell tells the UN whats up.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
All you that want to nitpick the current action of the USA amaze me. Really! You say "What about the Shah fiasco? What about this and that and the other thing? Huh?"
You all miss the point COMPLETELY! You're so engrossed in the past that you've got blinders on a don't see what's coming. Here's the question and here's the answer.
The answer is yes. That's why we are going to remove Saddam and all supporters from power. Will this cause unrest and strife in Iraq? Hell yes it will. It will be a steep learning curve for them, but someday the Iraqii people will be free to elect their own leader and cabinet. They will thank us too.
You all miss the point COMPLETELY! You're so engrossed in the past that you've got blinders on a don't see what's coming. Here's the question and here's the answer.
The answer is yes. That's why we are going to remove Saddam and all supporters from power. Will this cause unrest and strife in Iraq? Hell yes it will. It will be a steep learning curve for them, but someday the Iraqii people will be free to elect their own leader and cabinet. They will thank us too.
It won't make the mainstream media because the media is too liberal and left-winged liberals don't want anything that could help Bush out.
Celebrating death of the Astronauts is sick either way you look at it konichiwa. They had barley anything thing to do with the situation in isreal, with the expection of the Isreali. Iraq is going to get pwned either way you look at it.
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