This is what happens without labor unions:

[DCal430]

Lol you think NAFTA is free trade, thats a good one

So whats your plan? 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods like Trump wants?

Why don't we just make a law outlawing trade with all countries? We can make everything in the US and we'll all be rich right?

I actually wish there was way MORE immigration to the US. From all places, Mexico included. I wish we could have basically open borders to let anyone whos not dangerous into the US. Our welfare state stops us from doing this though. I want people who are looking for work and a better life to come here, I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

And ask any of these people who are making so called "slave wages" what they were doing before, chances are it was much much worse. I want the poor people of the world to have better opportunities to make more money and live a better life. The average person in China and India are much better off than they were a long time ago. I don't get why people who are "left" are against this kind of thing, don't you get how much better their life will be and will continue to become? Eventually they will have a much stronger middle class.

We do have problems here, I don't think cutting off trade is the answer though.

What a false dichotomy. The only solutions aren't slavery and people starving on the streets. There is enough resources in the world if shared properly and fairly we could end world poverty. Everyone could be well off, and global inequality would be a thing of the past. The problem is the wealthy want to hoard cash and resources while billions starve to death.

 

[dmcowen674]

The problem is the wealthy want to hoard cash and resources while billions starve to death.

 

[matt0611]

What a false dichotomy. The only solutions aren't slavery and people starving on the streets. There is enough resources in the world if shared properly and fairly we could end world poverty. Everyone could be well off, and global inequality would be a thing of the past. The problem is the wealthy want to hoard cash and resources while billions starve to death.

I never said we need slaves to get rid of poverty.

Have you looked at the world poverty rates?
The world poverty rate has been decreasing for decades, especially in places like east and south asia.

People like you and Dave want it to go up I guess? How humanitarian of you.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by DCal430
What a false dichotomy. The only solutions aren't slavery and people starving on the streets. There is enough resources in the world if shared properly and fairly we could end world poverty. Everyone could be well off, and global inequality would be a thing of the past. The problem is the wealthy want to hoard cash and resources while billions starve to death.

I never said we need slaves to get rid of poverty.

Have you looked at the world poverty rates?
The world poverty rate has been decreasing for decades, especially in places like east and south asia.

People like you and Dave want it to go up I guess?

How humanitarian of you.

Not exactly but how do expect un-adulterated growth to be sustained?

You think the rich are going to trickle something down?

You are witnessing that the rich don't trickle anything down other than the shit that comes out their asses and mouths.

 

[Matt1970]

What a false dichotomy. The only solutions aren't slavery and people starving on the streets. There is enough resources in the world if shared properly and fairly we could end world poverty. Everyone could be well off, and global inequality would be a thing of the past. The problem is the wealthy want to hoard cash and resources while billions starve to death.

Why haven't you given up your house and possesions yet? Taken in a homeless guy? How dare you buy a $1000 computer or a $20,000 car while people are starving out there.

 

[werepossum]

Epic fail.
Our economy is only successful when the cash flows... nto when one side (workers or employers) hoards it.

Employers pay workers so they can in turn become customers, which spend money, which causes businesses to prosper, thus continuing the cycle. it is the employerss duty to hire and pay local workers to maintain the local economy.

Downsizing and lowering wages for the sake of profiteering leads to a slowing of the eternal cycle... and leads to exactly the shitty economy we have now.

corporatist agenda = fail.

You should never, ever, ever debate business or economic matters until you have at least the most basic understanding of economics. Business vastly predates corporations, and the concept of employers paying workers so that they can then become customers is so abysmally stupid that it takes away my breath. Employers pay employees with money they already have; that should be beyond discussion. Employers can never get all that money back; that too should be beyond discussion. Therefore an employer paying employees in hopes of them becoming customers is literally too stupid for an argument from a chimpanzee, much less from a human, and very much less from a human with a computer and Internet access. Please try researching economics and jobs at the very most basic level before you even attempt to debate or discuss modern macroeconomics.

As a start, imagine a stone age tribe; no specialists, no business. Now imagine one hunter has more meat than his family or clan can consume before it spoils. That extra meat is liquid wealth. Now suppose he takes that meat to a less successful hunter, whose family or clan needs meat but who has a useful skill like chipping a really good spearhead, and offers him the extra meat in exchange for a couple good spear heads. This is business at its core; one party has liquid wealth (in this case extra meat), the other party wants that liquid wealth and has a skill or labor he's willing to trade. Each party has something he wants less than he wants something the other party has, so they settle on a price and they trade. THIS is the reason business exists. You can follow that same core logic up through any financial transaction, even the perspective CEO of General Electric. The would-be CEO has something (organization and operation skills plus available labor) that the other party (in this case, the General Electric corporation as represented by its board) that he values less than something owned by GE (ass loads of money, which he can trade for other things.) GE has something (ass loads of money) that it values less than it values the skills and labor of the successful new CEO. Assuming they can come to an agreement on the exact worth of the two commodities, GE hires itself a new CEO.

THAT is why business exists, because one person has liquid wealth that it values less than something another person has, be that time and skills (hiring an employee) or a product or service (buying something.)

 

[Steeplerot]

*snip*

Economists (doubly so the armchair ones around here) are the new Astrology and snake oil sellers.

 

[Steeplerot]

Why haven't you given up your house and possesions yet?

Do you guys really think lame red herring excuses the glaring flaws in capitalism? Is this really all you can do? For all the millions talk radio and fox have they cannot find their minions of bullshit new material since the cold war. lol you guys suck

 

[BenSkywalker]

Due to the length of time, abduction(would be false imprisonment if it were for shorter), assault with a weapon(chains used to hold them- foreign object used to incapacitate) and criminal threatening- those are the local statutes that I find in the article that the companies involved violated. If this were in the US Total Labor Law and OSHA violations would work out to around $100K in fines each(one of them I see about $200K), criminal code violations push a decade in jail. The unions approach is nothing more then acting as a lap dog for big corporations, their sheep are simply too ignorant to realize it. Labor laws allow coroporations to get away with tiny fines instead of facing the jail time they would if they did not exist. It's actually fairly sad to see how ignorant the union sheep are, perhaps when the union execs are out with thier friends in Congress cruising on their yachts while the last manufacturing jobs in the US get outsourced overseas they will realize exactly what they have been championing.

Support for labor laws in this situation means you back small fines.

Support for normal code of law means you support the supervisors/owners going to jail.

Somehow, people still believe the unions and the labor laws they champion are for the benefit of the workers and not for the benefit of the corporate fat cats.

Free trade and the global free market are integral parts of conservative and libertarian ideology

As a singular piece inside of the Libertarian idealogy free trade would not work. In general political terms, the actual conservative approach would be relatively isolationist trade policy, moving to a free trade/global economy is very much a progressive point(my apologies if the US political spectrum clouds the proper use of words).

However it happens in the USA revolution will be very fast once the MSM is not towing the establishments line and the actual people are on the same page instead of blaming one another thanks to the media.

No chance of that happening. The big corporate execs, their union boss brothers and the Congressional mistresses they keep have disarmed the American populace so the union bosses can see to their goal of forcing the populations into poverty after they bleed them of ever last cent they can get.

 

[werepossum]

Do you guys really think lame red herring excuses the glaring flaws in capitalism? Is this really all you can do? For all the millions talk radio and fox have they cannot find their minions of bullshit new material since the cold war. lol you guys suck

Just out of morbid curiosity, of the many societies that have largely eschewed capitalism - the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Laos, North Korea, Cuba, pre-Clinton Red China - which one is your ideal model?

 

[Matt1970]

Do you guys really think lame red herring excuses the glaring flaws in capitalism? Is this really all you can do? For all the millions talk radio and fox have they cannot find their minions of bullshit new material since the cold war. lol you guys suck

Well is Capitalism has been so bad to you, pack your bags.