This is puzzling me. I can't quite get my head around it.

[manowar821]

I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

Signed. If we had an ex-marine giving a talk in that university at the time we'd just have another headline: student on rampage kills 32 students and ex-marine.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

EDIT: hmmm i see he had hollow points. Still relatively slow to fire, but the stopping power is now there

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

I understand that, I've been in a lecture hall/classroom before.

Like I said, I'm a little nuts. I'd probably get shot trying, but there's always the chance he gets scared because now he's got a moving target to worry about.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

I understand that, I've been in a lecture hall/classroom before.

Like I said, I'm a little nuts. I'd probably get shot trying, but there's always the chance he gets scared because now he's got a moving target to worry about.

It would certainly achieve more than offering yourself up to be shot.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

Well, last time I checked, here in reality, people don't have a little rally button in the corner of their screen that they can just press in the heat of a battle, in order to organize a mob rush of willing human shields in the midst of a completely unexpected massacre amid a hail of gunfire and screaming.

But if you have that magic ability, please do share how its done. Even the finest trained army, outside of spartans, WILL rout and run for their lives when faced with such a massacre.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

I understand that, I've been in a lecture hall/classroom before.

Like I said, I'm a little nuts. I'd probably get shot trying, but there's always the chance he gets scared because now he's got a moving target to worry about.

It would certainly achieve more than offering yourself up to be shot.

Yes, it would achieve his certain death.

Remember, this kid wasnt concerned with his own life. He had every intention of offing himself, so there wasnt anything that could be done to scare him.

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

EDIT: hmmm i see he had hollow points. Still relatively slow to fire, but the stopping power is now there

But the problem is that once someone points a gun at a person, that person stops thinking as one of a mass, part of a team; they're suddenly thinking only of themselves as an induvidual and their own weakness. If a gun is pointed to you, you think "well I'm going to get shot if I do something wrong" and not "if 6 of us rush him he can't kill us all".

Edit: i spel gud

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

Well, last time I checked, here in reality, people don't have a little rally button in the corner of their screen that they can just press in the heat of a battle, in order to organize a mob rush of willing human shields in the midst of a completely unexpected massacre amid a hail of gunfire and screaming.

But if you have that magic ability, please do share how its done. Even the finest trained army, outside of spartans, WILL rout and run for their lives when faced with such a massacre.

No need to be such a prickly jackass about this

I'd suggest a squad of marines, SAS or Delta Force wouldn't panic and run screaming like headless chickens, but regardless that, i've pointed out that contrary to your comment earlier, rushing the guy would be a damn sight more useful and just as heroic, than offering yourself up to be shot.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

Well, last time I checked, here in reality, people don't have a little rally button in the corner of their screen that they can just press in the heat of a battle, in order to organize a mob rush of willing human shields in the midst of a completely unexpected massacre amid a hail of gunfire and screaming.

But if you have that magic ability, please do share how its done. Even the finest trained army, outside of spartans, WILL rout and run for their lives when faced with such a massacre.

You seem upset by this thread.

Just know that I'm not criticizing the students, hell, 4 years ago I probably would've done the same exact thing as these kids/adults. I just WISH that someone had done something to him before he shot that many people. Wishing isn't going help anyone, though...

These people are students, they're learning to survive in the technology world, not in the jungle.

:brokenheart:

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

EDIT: hmmm i see he had hollow points. Still relatively slow to fire, but the stopping power is now there

But the problem is that once someone points a gun at a person, that person stops thinking as one of a mass, part of a team; they're suddenly thinking only of themselves as an induvidual and their own weakness. If a gun is pointed to you, you think "well I'm going to get shot if I do something wrong" and not "if 6 of us rush him he can't kill us all".

Edit: i spel gud

In no way am i disputing this.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

EDIT: hmmm i see he had hollow points. Still relatively slow to fire, but the stopping power is now there

small caliber compared to a rifle maybe

i can unload a full 15 rd. mag of 9mm ammo in a matter of seconds. thats not exactly slow to fire, unless you are considering full auto weapons or reload times too.

how do you organize a mass rush in the heat of the moment like that? the chances of being shot are pretty good if they rushed. how many people do you think are willing to do that?

stopping power? the fact that he had a gun was enough stopping power. these are college kids we're talking about here, not soldiers, not drugged up/drunk attackers.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

A mag change still takes time (2-5 seconds is an eternity at pistol ranges). You can minimize that time if you practice it religiously. The ex-Army Airborne/special ops guy that taught me to shoot said they trained with Israelis who spent a large chunk of their free time practicing mag changes on their Uzi's to get it down to the bare minimum.

Without knowing all the circumstances it is hard to say if it would have helped, but it potentially could have given someone a window of opportunity. Most anyone who has much experience with firearms would know to move on his ass the instant the slide locks back (provided you can keep your wits about you).

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

EDIT: hmmm i see he had hollow points. Still relatively slow to fire, but the stopping power is now there

small caliber compared to a rifle maybe

i can unload a full 15 rd. mag of 9mm ammo in a matter of seconds. thats not exactly slow to fire, unless you are considering full auto weapons or reload times too.

how do you organize a mass rush in the heat of the moment like that? the chances of being shot are pretty good if they rushed. how many people do you think are willing to do that?

stopping power? the fact that he had a gun was enough stopping power. these are college kids we're talking about here, not soldiers, not drugged up/drunk attackers.

OK, this is getting silly.

At no stage did i say they SHOULD have done this, or suggested that i had ANY expectation a bunch of terrified college kids SHOULD have rushed him.

I merely pointed out that if a group had rushed him, he would have been boned, most likely. It doesn't sound like this guy was demonstrating any wild skills with his weapons, as you point out, he was simply massacring terrified college kids

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

A mag change still takes time (2-5 seconds is an eternity at pistol ranges). You can minimize that time if you practice it religiously. The ex-Army Airborne/special ops guy that taught me to shoot said they trained with Israelis who spent a large chunk of their free time practicing mag changes on their Uzi's to get it down to the bare minimum.

Without knowing all the circumstances it is hard to say if it would have helped, but it potentially could have given someone a window of opportunity. Most anyone who has much experience with firearms would know to move on his ass the instant the slide locks back (provided you can keep your wits about you).

To re-iterate what others have said:

From what I've heard about the building, these were mid-sized rooms with desks arranged in columns/rows. The only door is probably in the corner and 5+ feet away from the first row of desks. By the time anyone realizes what's going on the people nearest the gunman (and the exit) are dead. From across the room and with mulitple rows of desks between you, do you really think you could pull any kind of useful tactical maneuver in 2-5 seconds?

 

[Mo0o]

Classic Prisoner's Dilemma problem

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: manowar821
I haven't been trained, but I'd do the same as the OP. I've been in a situation where a gunman was holding myself and others up, though.

And I'm a little nuts.

But this wasnt a holdup, it was a calculated rampage. People seem to be forgetting that.

I've never been in a smallish college classroom (and I've been in very, very many) that had ANY cover.

Although the OPs and the rest of you heroes' notion is certainly cute, its completely out of line with the reality of the situation.

The ONLY thing heroic thing anyone could have done is offered themselves up to be shot and killed, in the hopes that he'd waste enough ammo on killing you that the other people might be spared.

He only had small calibre non-auto weapons, so if more than a couple of people had rushed him, he'd have been boned...that would have been heroic and possibly rather more constructive than offering yourself up to be killed.

Well, last time I checked, here in reality, people don't have a little rally button in the corner of their screen that they can just press in the heat of a battle, in order to organize a mob rush of willing human shields in the midst of a completely unexpected massacre amid a hail of gunfire and screaming.

But if you have that magic ability, please do share how its done. Even the finest trained army, outside of spartans, WILL rout and run for their lives when faced with such a massacre.

No need to be such a prickly jackass about this

I'd suggest a squad of marines, SAS or Delta Force wouldn't panic and run screaming like headless chickens, but regardless that, i've pointed out that contrary to your comment earlier, rushing the guy would be a damn sight more useful and just as heroic, than offering yourself up to be shot.

A squad of marines/SAS would be well armed and armored, and could take this guy down in an instant. But this clearly wasnt the case. A lone, unarmed SWAT in nothing but street clothes would be as dead as the rest of them.

I'm still not sure what "use" rushing the guy would be though. You cant scare someone who isnt concerned about their life, and I dunno how familiar you are with hollow points, but as far as stopping anyone whose charging towards you, they might as well be brick walls.

You seem upset by this thread.

Yes, I am upset. I've seen ATOT hit pathetic lows, but this is a new one. All of these armchair heroics in hindsight only really serve to piss on the graves of the dead and in the faces of those that survived.

I'd have liked to have done something about it. I wished something could have been done about it. But EVERYTHING, every single thing, that I have read about the situation forces me to the conclusion that there is not a single thing anyone could have done aside from being a human shield.

Wall to his back - cant get behind him.
A room full of desk chairs. No cover - can't flank him. No room to rush him.
Hollow points - You wouldnt get very far even if you tried to rush him.
Basically an ambush - Had the element of surprise. All the students lacked any training.
A vest full of clips - No time to charge while reloading.
A death wish - You couldnt scare him. You couldnt negotiate with him.

There is quite simply no room for heroism, and he made sure of it. It was a massacre. So wrap your head around that, and respect that, instead of telling us grand stories about how you would have stopped him.

Just say you wish someone *could* have stopped him, realize the impossibility and futility of such a notion, and STFU with the heroics or hindsight analysis. If something could have been done, it would have been.

It's truely, truely pathetic. 30+ people are DEAD! This is not the time for your to stroke your ego about how you would or could have stopped him.

 

[Greenman]

I would just like to point out to all the heroes here that no one EVER charges a firing weapon head on. While I'm sure you imagine yourself dodging bullets and saving the lives of everyone present, it doesn't happen, ever.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

A mag change still takes time (2-5 seconds is an eternity at pistol ranges). You can minimize that time if you practice it religiously. The ex-Army Airborne/special ops guy that taught me to shoot said they trained with Israelis who spent a large chunk of their free time practicing mag changes on their Uzi's to get it down to the bare minimum.

Without knowing all the circumstances it is hard to say if it would have helped, but it potentially could have given someone a window of opportunity. Most anyone who has much experience with firearms would know to move on his ass the instant the slide locks back (provided you can keep your wits about you).

To re-iterate what others have said:

From what I've heard about the building, these were mid-sized rooms with desks arranged in columns/rows. The only door is probably in the corner and 5+ feet away from the first row of desks. By the time anyone realizes what's going on the people nearest the gunman (and the exit) are dead. From across the room and with mulitple rows of desks between you, do you really think you could pull any kind of useful tactical maneuver in 2-5 seconds?

A person can cover quite a bit of ground in that time. It depends heavily on the exact situation, but it might have been doable. In knife/bare handed vs armed confrontations the advantage of the person with the gun decreases with proximity (as you close the distance the odds favor you better).

 

[ShockwaveVT]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Yes, I am upset. I've seen ATOT hit pathetic lows, but this is a new one. All of these armchair heroics in hindsight only really serve to piss on the graves of the dead and in the faces of those that survived.

...

Just say you wish someone *could* have stopped him, realize the impossibility and futility of such a notion, and STFU with the heroics.

It's truely, truely pathetic. 30+ people are DEAD! This is not the time for your to stroke your ego about how you would or could have stopped him.

Agree 100%.

 

[panipoori]

ON the cnn front page they have a video showing what the classrooms looked like and it is really impossible for anyone to stop the guy, the rooms have only 1 exit, the doors are made of wood, and its a hallway type structure so any one room is only a few feet away from the next.

 

[Gooberlx2]

I think a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations of what they'd be able to do in a situation like this.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
I think a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations of what they'd be able to do in a situation like this.

I'd agree with that (which is why I prefaced everything I've said with "might"). I disagree however that absolutely nothing could have been done in the situation. That is just as foolish as saying you could have definitely, single handedly, stopped the guy IMO.

Your mind is always the first line of defense. IF you can keep rational and not freeze up/panic you always have options (slim as they may have been in this case).

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Alkaline5

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

A mag change still takes time (2-5 seconds is an eternity at pistol ranges). You can minimize that time if you practice it religiously. The ex-Army Airborne/special ops guy that taught me to shoot said they trained with Israelis who spent a large chunk of their free time practicing mag changes on their Uzi's to get it down to the bare minimum.

Without knowing all the circumstances it is hard to say if it would have helped, but it potentially could have given someone a window of opportunity. Most anyone who has much experience with firearms would know to move on his ass the instant the slide locks back (provided you can keep your wits about you).

To re-iterate what others have said:

From what I've heard about the building, these were mid-sized rooms with desks arranged in columns/rows. The only door is probably in the corner and 5+ feet away from the first row of desks. By the time anyone realizes what's going on the people nearest the gunman (and the exit) are dead. From across the room and with mulitple rows of desks between you, do you really think you could pull any kind of useful tactical maneuver in 2-5 seconds?

A person can cover quite a bit of ground in that time. It depends heavily on the exact situation, but it might have been doable. In knife/bare handed vs armed confrontations the advantage of the person with the gun decreases with proximity (as you close the distance the odds favor you better).

did you watch the video that I posted? it sure doesn't sound like you did.

you say that 2-5 seconds is an eternity at the shooting range. in the video, one of the witnesses clearly states that the kid took 1.5 - 2 seconds to reload his clip. just watch the damn video and your whole opinion will change.

i'm sure these kids were hiding behind the desks hearing the "bang-bang-bang-bang-bang" go off in rapid succession, then for that 1 second when they hear the sounds stop, they are probably like "woah it's over" and then 1 second later, the guy started firing again.

no one had time to do anything, let alone even think about stopping this guy.