This is puzzling me. I can't quite get my head around it.

[compuwiz1]

So, I've been thinking. If the VT shooter had any audience around him, who was not exactly in his line of fire, how did this guy not get taken out, before he could kill over 30 people? Being an ex marine, I would know, that if I could maneuver around him, out of his radius of sight, for 3 seconds, giving him no time for correction, I would be able to take him down. It's hard to believe, everyone he hit was in his immediate line of fire at all times. I wonder, if people just froze in panic. It seems someone, anyone should have been out of the line of fire, and should have been able to take him down, far before he got more than a few rounds off.
Crazy sh!t

 

[NL mkII]

These are students and not marines. Classic Nash stuff here though... if everyone had done what was best for the group it would have been best for them as well. If everyone just got up and tried to take him down you are ALL going to stand a much better chance of living.

The flipside of that is that whatever the other guys in the room do its almost always going to be better for you to NOT try and take him down.

 

[dug777]

Didn't other people have guns?

I'm not really au fait with gun rules on American uni campuses

EDIT: i would assume they are not allowed...

 

[Aimster]

I am assuming the class was stadium seating and small sized.
It was probably crammed. To get to the front of the class or to the back of the class is a pain in the ass for me in several of my classes.

If he took out the front row the back row was helpless.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: NL mkII

These are students and not marines.

Precisely. They hadn't been trained to act rationally and calmly when faced with someone with a gun. Their first instinct was probably to freeze.

 

[Locut0s]

There is an armed man in the room who wants to kill you.

Given that situation most people just freeze up. Usually only someone who has been trained for faced that situation before reacts differently.

 

[compuwiz1]

I feel there should be people who teach self defense, going into every school in the country, and training students on this. It might take weeks, months, or years, but with training, these kids could have shut that action down in seconds.

This is a far better idea, than the gun control crowd has come up with.

 

[MustangSVT]

There are gaps.

32 ppl with pistol.. Its not a simple target practice. There is a reason that a tragity like this hasn't happened in the past. And judging from his experience and firepower, there are some serious facts missing or we are being misguided.

Lets wait for more facts.

 

[JEDIYoda]

wheres john Rambo when you need him??

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
wheres john Rambo when you need him??

Buford Pusser is the new Sheriff in town. Big, Big stick.

 

[Zee]

huh? how do you plan on getting out of his field of vision for 3 seconds?? You try to do that with me in a classroom and i can shoot you down, easy.

 

[tfinch2]

When you're standing at the door of a room, and there is only one door to get out, it's pretty hard for someone to get out of your field of vision and sneak up on you.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
When you're standing at the door of a room, and there is only one door to get out, it's pretty hard for someone to get out of your field of vision and sneak up on you.

Plus, there is usually a good amount of distance between the first chair and the door, maybe 10 feet.

 

[Roguestar]

We're not all ex-marines, unfortunately. Most people's first reaction to seeing someone with a gun is to run or hide or stay still and make no sudden movements, instead of thinking "how can we take this guy down?". Especially students in a no-gun-zone university who generally don't expect to see a shooting spree on their way to the next class.

 

[purbeast0]

watch this video

maybe that will help you understand a little better.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I feel there should be people who teach self defense, going into every school in the country, and training students on this. It might take weeks, months, or years, but with training, these kids could have shut that action down in seconds.

This is a far better idea, than the gun control crowd has come up with.

i don't know about that. who will conduct the training? who will pay for it?
i don't think all the training in the world can prepare you for this unless you've already experienced it. no one thinks this will happen at their school/business/etc.

also, how does self defense help you defend against a gun wielding psycho?

 

[BD2003]

Here we go again.....

This wasnt a standoff, it was a damn massacre. Unless there were people behind him (which there apparently wasnt), there wasnt anything a person could have done, unless they were bulletproof.

If it's like ANY college classroom, there is no way to manuver around. The door is always at the corner, possibly even in a nook, and basically the only thing in the room would be desk chairs. There is no cover.

 

[gwrober]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Here we go again.....

This wasnt a standoff, it was a damn massacre. Unless there were people behind him (which there apparently wasnt), there wasnt anything a person could have done, unless they were bulletproof.

If it's like ANY college classroom, there is no way to manuver around. The door is always at the corner, possibly even in a nook, and basically the only thing in the room would be desk chairs. There is no cover.

 

[imported_Devine]

I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

Watch the video.

He had a vest full of ammo. Hollow points, to be exact, and nothing in the world will stop someone running at you faster than those. It takes less than 2 seconds to drop one clip and slap in another. There is NOTHING anyone could have done, other than stand up and volunteer to be the next one shot.

Enough with this armchair hero BS already!

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Devine
I felt the same way when I first found out about this, the only way I thought that would be possible would be if the guy had a fully automatic gun, but after finding out he only had 2 pistols, somebody should've done something and Im only in the Air Force, not the Marines.

edit: bd2003 beat me to it.

about your comment on the fully automatic weapon

sure, he would have to reload at some point and ten maybe you could do something. even then, changing mags could be done pretty quickly. on top of that, if he only used one at a time, he could have the other still loaded and ready while he replaced the nag in the other.

you have to realize that these are college kids who most likely only know about guns from movies. they've probably never seen a real one, let alone fire one or know anything about them.

 

[Glayde]

Also remember, if someone walks into the room, it's going to take a few seconds or more before people realize what's going on.

This isn't something people expect on a day to day basis.
I'm sure some people thought it may be a joke or something at first.
After that you wonder, is he just there to kill one person or one instructor?

Most people's first reaction was probably to try to move away from him, or try to not be noticed, until they realized he was just going to kill everyone, and by then it would be too late to really offer much resistance.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
So, I've been thinking. If the VT shooter had any audience around him, who was not exactly in his line of fire, how did this guy not get taken out, before he could kill over 30 people? Being an ex marine, I would know, that if I could maneuver around him, out of his radius of sight, for 3 seconds, giving him no time for correction, I would be able to take him down. It's hard to believe, everyone he hit was in his immediate line of fire at all times. I wonder, if people just froze in panic. It seems someone, anyone should have been out of the line of fire, and should have been able to take him down, far before he got more than a few rounds off.
Crazy sh!t

hindsight. maybe some would've reacted more aggressively towards him in hindsight.

it's like planes that were hijacked previous to 9/11 where passengers just sat by and did what they were told in hopes that the hijacker would spare their lives. now, due to recent events, passengers are going to be and have been proactive towards other passengers that threaten them.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I feel there should be people who teach self defense, going into every school in the country, and training students on this. It might take weeks, months, or years, but with training, these kids could have shut that action down in seconds.

This is a far better idea, than the gun control crowd has come up with.

Weeks? Months? Years of training for college students? lol

 

[Hammerhead]

When he walked in the room and started shooting, first instinct was to take cover.
by the time you realize what's going on and plan to get the guy, he's was probably on his way to the next classroom. What do you do? help the wounded? barricade the door? or go after the guy?
I'm pretty sure the last thing anyone wanted to do was go after the guy.