This is like how the so-calledBiblical Flood might have happened.

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,995
3,357
146
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

The sad thing is that one of the biggest reasons I despise Christians besides the fact that they more mostly for destroying the only planet we live on because the apocolypse is coming anyway, is that I'm jelly. I wish I could be a dipshit and like dipshit things and pretend some dipshit in the sky is going to save me. I get fucking sick of being my own god sometimes.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
The sad thing is that one of the biggest reasons I despise Christians besides the fact that they more mostly for destroying the only planet we live on because the apocolypse is coming anyway, is that I'm jelly. I wish I could be a dipshit and like dipshit things and pretend some dipshit in the sky is going to save me. I get fucking sick of being my own god sometimes.

U mad, Brah?
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
I believe in hyperbole, but hyperbole is obvious. From the writing style and the information given, it is clear that it was meant to convey the account factually. If people want to disbelieve it, that's preferable to trying to manufacture some kind of middle ground and treat the Bible as a children's story where maybe they exaggerated details. Read the passage. The author (presumed to be Moses) gave measurements and days to treat the subject factually, not as an old wives' tale.

A lot of people assume that the Bible to be inaccurate just because they assume anything that old is mostly fables and has a lot of made up material. But if you do the research, you'll find that what can be verified is stunningly accurate.

I'm betting anything some user who thinks he is clever will post a link to any random website claiming to "debunk" the Bible. But if you talk to historians or really take a look at the historical details in the Bible, a lot of it can be verified when you examine broader history of the ancient world, like what is given about Egypt or Assyria. The details that can't be verified are mostly because of how time, conflicts, and natural disasters have decimated various areas in and around Israel, and political reasons also keep some archaeology from being done, but that's no different from investigating any other ancient culture.

For the flood, a lot of people ask the question, "where is the evidence?" And you have to answer the question with a question, "who is doing the research?" And the answer is pretty much no one. Science is informed by the base assumptions you make, and the current modern assumption is that a global flood isn't possible, end of story. If you start of asking the question, "what kind of effects would a global flood have on the planet, and what evidence would it leave behind?", then you start to generate some further interesting questions and potential answers that start to clash with other assumptions made about geology and stratigraphy. But it's much easier for people to scoff and just make assumptions rather than do any work. It's just easier to Google a rebuttal than to challenge the worldview that our society has cemented as unchallengeable in the past century.

I'm not going to respond any more to this thread because in the past I've spent way too much time in unproductive conversations. Why cast pearls before swine. :p (not meant to be offensive, just saying very few of you would appreciate the back and forth).


The burden of proof is on the claimant. Why should scientists who have seen no evidence that global floods happen spend time trying to find out if one happened. Maybe more young earth Christians need to learn proper scientific research techniques and do their own studies and write papers. If the science is good the facts should become apparent.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,995
3,357
146
The burden of proof is on the claimant. Why should scientists who have seen no evidence that global floods happen spend time trying to find out if one happened. Maybe more young earth Christians need to learn proper scientific research techniques and do their own studies and write papers. If the science is good the facts should become apparent.

You don't understand though. Scientists need to start on the basis that the bible is 100% truth and then deduce all science from there. Obviously we were way smarter back in the middle ages.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
I believe in hyperbole, but hyperbole is obvious. From the writing style and the information given, it is clear that it was meant to convey the account factually. If people want to disbelieve it, that's preferable to trying to manufacture some kind of middle ground and treat the Bible as a children's story where maybe they exaggerated details. Read the passage. The author (presumed to be Moses) gave measurements and days to treat the subject factually, not as an old wives' tale.

A lot of people assume that the Bible to be inaccurate just because they assume anything that old is mostly fables and has a lot of made up material. But if you do the research, you'll find that what can be verified is stunningly accurate.

I'm betting anything some user who thinks he is clever will post a link to any random website claiming to "debunk" the Bible. But if you talk to historians or really take a look at the historical details in the Bible, a lot of it can be verified when you examine broader history of the ancient world, like what is given about Egypt or Assyria. The details that can't be verified are mostly because of how time, conflicts, and natural disasters have decimated various areas in and around Israel, and political reasons also keep some archaeology from being done, but that's no different from investigating any other ancient culture.

For the flood, a lot of people ask the question, "where is the evidence?" And you have to answer the question with a question, "who is doing the research?" And the answer is pretty much no one. Science is informed by the base assumptions you make, and the current modern assumption is that a global flood isn't possible, end of story. If you start of asking the question, "what kind of effects would a global flood have on the planet, and what evidence would it leave behind?", then you start to generate some further interesting questions and potential answers that start to clash with other assumptions made about geology and stratigraphy. But it's much easier for people to scoff and just make assumptions rather than do any work. It's just easier to Google a rebuttal than to challenge the worldview that our society has cemented as unchallengeable in the past century.

I'm not going to respond any more to this thread because in the past I've spent way too much time in unproductive conversations. Why cast pearls before swine. :p (not meant to be offensive, just saying very few of you would appreciate the back and forth).

I'm not expecting a response, but I thought I'd chip on on the other side a bit here. I think a lot of the backlash you get towards attempts to verify events in the bible has to do with the elevated status the bible is given over other texts of that period.

There are dozens of creation myths and oral histories that were created and recorded in the same general period (or earlier) that the torah had been assembled in (600-400BCE). Many of these present pseudo-historical accounts of events that had been passed along by oral tradition. The Iliad, for example talks of a long war between the Mycenaeans and Trojans, and there is indeed a city in the right place that was largely destroyed in the 12th century, suggesting that a large war *might* have taken place. Historians do not, however, assume that the Greeks had a half-nymph warrior and that the castle was taken by a large wooden horse. Likewise with the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Aeneid, the Mahabharata, and many others.

So why must the Torah (and the other Judeo-Christian texts) be taken literally when all the others are understood with the proper amount of skepticism and metaphor that is appropriate? While events in those texts have some corroboration with reality, it is no more so than any of the other founder myths I described above. Any statement to the effect that "it is the word of God" has no evidence behind it that anyone outside of the religion would accept. There is no secular, evidence-based reason to take biblical accounts as anything more or less than recordings of oral histories, with all of their associated insights and pitfalls.

I'm certainly not here to claim that nothing in the bible happened, or that there are not truths proclaimed in its texts, but I also see no reason to claim infallibility, either.
 
Last edited:

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
The burden of proof is on the claimant. Why should scientists who have seen no evidence that global floods happen spend time trying to find out if one happened.

Lack of evidence is evidence. The geologic record is amazingly accurate and complete, scientists can find the global evidence of how the dinosaurs died 65 million years ago thanks to the iridium layer on the K-T boundary. A global flood would leave unmistakable proof all over the world, scientists wouldn't have needed to look for it, they would have found it a thousand times over while looking for other things. It isn't there. And since there is no such thing as a stealth flood, lack of proof of a flood is firm proof that there was no flood. If it didn't leave a trace it didn't happen.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
Ignorance is bliss :(

I don't despise a group of people because of beliefs they hold and adhere to.

But it's good to see how intolerant you are...the truth is out.

NOTE: you said you despise Christians, not their beliefs.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
recede to where?

And where did it come from? The total water volume on earth if you account for all the oceans, all the lakes and rivers, the ice caps, the underground water table and the water in the atmosphere is something like .0001% of the water needed to create a biblical flood across the entire globe.
 

leftyman

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,073
3
81
The Flintstones HAS to be true. I saw it on the tee-vee!

up-FlintstoneTV.jpg
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Lack of evidence is evidence. The geologic record is amazingly accurate and complete, scientists can find the global evidence of how the dinosaurs died 65 million years ago thanks to the iridium layer on the K-T boundary. A global flood would leave unmistakable proof all over the world, scientists wouldn't have needed to look for it, they would have found it a thousand times over while looking for other things. It isn't there. And since there is no such thing as a stealth flood, lack of proof of a flood is firm proof that there was no flood. If it didn't leave a trace it didn't happen.

This. And, there is plenty of evidence of large geologic events which, after being passed down for many generations through oral storytelling, would account for the origin of the Biblical flood *story*.

Furthermore, if you do the math - 16,000 feet of water, in 40 days? That's 400 feet of water per day. That's over 16 FEET of water per hour coming down. Keep going with the math & you'll see how silly it is. 3 1/3" of rain on every square inch of Earth every minute. Then, the flood waters "receded." Receded to where? And, 2 of every species of animal on Earth just happened to live within walking distance to the ark? So, all those kangaroos in Australia, and other animals that only lived in one area of the world (and are in the fossil record as having lived only in that one area) suddenly were all next to the ark? And, how do you explain the ordering of the fossils in the fossil record. Yes, I know the explanation that an ignorant child might believe - but how about the explanation for someone even slightly knowledgeable?
 
Last edited:

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
How come only 600+ year old Noah and his family lived? Did he have the only boat in existence at the time?
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,995
3,357
146
I don't despise a group of people because of beliefs they hold and adhere to.

But it's good to see how intolerant you are...the truth is out.

NOTE: you said you despise Christians, not their beliefs.

So you don't despise neo nazi's or KKK members or Islamist terrorists... Well I guess why would you, god loves you and you are going to heaven. Fuck now I'm jelly again.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
So you don't despise neo nazi's or KKK members or Islamist terrorists... Well I guess why would you, god loves you and you are going to heaven. Fuck now I'm jelly again.

No, I don't. Of course, I hate actions... but I simply don't hate people.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Historically accurate event --> Hitler killed lots of Jews.

Bible version --> 1. And in the war of the world 2nd edition there be this guy with funny stash.
2. Then some shits happened.
3. And the devil told unto this funny stash fellow - vanquish the Jews
4. Jesus
5. Lawd, oh lawdy lawd
6. Repent, and donate to the church
7. Kthx
8. Invest in your afterlife with generous contribution! You don't want to have funny stash!
9. Dinosaurs are pets.
10. The dinosaurs drank all the water when it receded.

So yeah, you can verify that the funny stash guy did kill a lot of Jews, therefore the Bible is truf...
 
Last edited:

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
And where did it come from? The total water volume on earth if you account for all the oceans, all the lakes and rivers, the ice caps, the underground water table and the water in the atmosphere is something like .0001% of the water needed to create a biblical flood across the entire globe.

Obviously the answer is the water went into Inner earth.

You see before the flood there were huge glaciers, large enough to flood the earth in it's entirety. There was also a barren lifeless inner earth. Mankind had advanced to a high state and our technology caused us to flood the earth. The waters receded into the inner earth (which is a sphere floating in the center of our earth). This made life on inner earth viable so the remaining hyper advanced humans moved there and generated a artificial sun. This left all the inbreed and retarded humans on the surface of the earth and we created a story to deal with the loss of all our overlords.

This is so obvious!!
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Do you believe in hyperbole? I don't imagine the individuals who wrote the Bible were beyond it. I'm not saying that to be inflammatory or anti-Bible, but I'm just being realistic with humans being the literal authors.

This might explain why Noah is portrayed as a 600-year-old man tasked by God to singlehandedly build an enormous ship to rescue every animal species on Earth from an outpouring of water so massive it completely covered the globe and then disappeared into nothingness. I think if you had a time machine and could go back and observe the "flood" as it happened, it would turn out that Noah was some 65-year-old lunatic ranting about the end of times who managed to build a makeshift raft from random crap in his garage, went around the neighborhood kidnapping cats, then set out to sea, never to be heard from again. A few weeks later, a mild flood hits, people freak out and say the lunatic who kidnapped all those cats was right, BOOM, a legend is born.

It's not even possible to debate the veracity of a story where the central figures are an unprovable deity and a man who lives to be 950 years old. "Sure, that part sounds like bullshit, but the water that we have no evidence of, THAT part was real." Riiiiight.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,354
1,863
126
I believe sourceninja has the most credibility of all the theologians here since he has the word "ninja" in his name.

therefore, whatever he says is the correct interpretation of the holey scriptures. (they have LOTS of plot holes, inconsistencies, and impossibilities, and things that don't make sense, so they need a good interpreter.)

Thus, there was a great giant flood due to the technologies of man. The flood wiped man and his evil demonic technologies to inner earth.

Problem solved.


Lets move on to the next one. "Virgin" birth ... do you really expect us to believe that the woman never even once got laid before she had a kid? Come On! What a load of crap. How many people lie about such things. Approx 100% of all virgins who have had kids have not actually been virgins. It's sort of the way it works.

Now that that is out of the way, lets move on to ghosts.

Ghosts are not real. They are imaginary.


All superstitions are false.

Astrology is fake.

All psychics are frauds.

Life is good.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
I remember seeing something about the periodic closing off of the mouth of the Mediterranean at Gibraltar and that when it opened up or was breached it produced a flood of unimaginable proportion. They had side scan sonar images showing deep trenches running parallel just east of Gibraltar much like the scars in the scab lands in Washington. Such features REQUIRE vast quantities of water moving at high velocity.

Additionally, there are salt deposits in the Mediterranean that are thought to have been created by periodic desiccation's that further support the idea that the Mediterranean has had multiple desiccation's and floods.

The idea that the entire world was covered with water is no where near feasible, but to the ancients, the world consisted of the Mediterranean and the lands around it so if that area flooded they could be forgiven for thinking the whole world was flooded.

There is also the volcanic eruptions (Santorini) on Crete that some suspect created a tsunami.

These stories, passed down verbally over many generations can easily morph into the kind of stories depicted in the Bible. Of course if you believe the stories in the Bible are 100% accurate then scientific analysis doesn't much matter...

Question:

If you took all the animals in the world and put them on a boat two-by-two, how big would the boat be if you put them in shoulder-to-shoulder? How much bigger would it need to be to hold the food necessary to sustain them for 40 days or longer? What about the plants, bugs and other creatures not listed in the account of Noah?

Answer:

No way could a boat, 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits (450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet) hold all that even if packed shoulder-to-shoulder. Also, how did Noah and his family build such a large boat, largely by hand? Sorry, nice story, but it did not happen...


Brian