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This Incident Saddens and Disgusts Me

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Indus said:
lmao all black frightens you?

That'd cover all rockers, metal maniacs, industrial goths and funeral goers.
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I'm wearing all black right now, albeit in the form of gym shorts and a t shirt. I guess I should change out of my threatening attire.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
The Colorado shooter used a theater exit door left propped open
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White middle aged men checking into hotels. Behavior consistent with a shooting scenario. Teach us how to react decisively. You don't have situational awareness, you are too sensitive and prone to type 1 error.
 
brycejones said:
A huge thanks to @Starbuck1975 and @IJTSSG for their honest responses that show how fucked up America still is. Congrats guys, you are the problem.
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You’re welcome!

TheVrolok said:
White middle aged men checking into hotels. Behavior consistent with a shooting scenario. Teach us how to react decisively. You don't have situational awareness, you are too sensitive and prone to type 1 error.
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Glad your brought that up. In just about every single mass shooting scenario, there are warning signs of things not quite right, with a chain of events where people didn’t say something.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ws-warning-signs-from-attackers-report-finds/
 
IJTSSG said:
It's more of an indicator of the quality of who it's directed at similar to the quality of your posts indicating "idiot".
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Sure dude, whatever you say.

Edit: personally, I dont care want you want to do in the privacy of your own home. It's just not healthy to hate yourself for it.
 
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TheVrolok said:
Is that the article from March /April? If so, sure did. My argument, as stated, was that you are overly prone to type 1 error and that is a problem. It is up to you to understand it.
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Why is that a problem, when the article I posted demonstrates that tragedy is often the result of type 2 errors.
 
I too was appalled after reading OP's link. It was clearly racism. She would not have called campus police if they had been white. But then I found another of the many articles out there that had more of the 911 call information and context. Now I am not so sure about the racism charge. It sounds like the woman was reluctant to call the campus police but did so only after the kids would not answer anyone's questions about themselves. She even apologized for calling.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/native-american-blames-discrimination-campus-ordeal-065405732.html
"According to a police recording from a woman on the tour that started the incident, the caller told a dispatcher that the teens arrived late in the tour and wouldn't respond to questions about their names or what they wanted to study at the school.

"They are not, definitely not, a part of the tour," said the woman, identified in a police report as a 45-year-old white woman from Colorado. "And their behavior is just really odd. And I've never called, ever, about anybody. But they joined our tour. They won't give their names."

The woman also said during the call that the teens were "lying the whole time," but doesn't offer specifics to support the claim, except to say that one of them laughed when she asked what they were studying. She also repeatedly told the dispatcher that her concern could be "completely paranoid" and apologized "if it's nothing."

"They're probably fine and just creepy kids," she said.

Other than saying the teens were wearing all black clothing with "dark stuff on it," the caller did not physically describe them until questioned by the dispatcher. She said she believed they were Hispanic, and described their clothing as having a "weird symbolism or wording on it."

It appears at least one of the brothers was wearing a T-shirt of a death metal band called Cattle Decapitation. On its Facebook page, the band offered the teens "free guest list spots to our shows for life."



Here is the campus police report. Additional details of the incident.
https://safety.colostate.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/18-758_Redacted.pdf


I do know people that have become hyper-sensitized by the mass school shootings and terrorism. Authorities are telling everyone to report anything unusual (see something, say something). They have become overly cautious about incidents like this. Looks like this lady may fall into that catagory after reading all of the details of the incident.

I do believe this lady should personally apologize to these kids and their parents.


Personal anecdote. My daughter attended her first year college orientation last year with my wife and I in tow. We were in a large auditorium with several hundred people (new students and parents) and the dean of admissions was talking. This scrawny white kid wearing a dingy grey hoody popped up and started talking about an incident with his father. He was alone at the orientation. It sounded like "crazy talk". The weather was hot in Florida and no other new student was wearing a hoody. Everyone looked at this kid and had a strange look on their face like - WTF? I'm sure more than one parent talked to campus authorities afterwords relaying their concern about this kid. I'm pretty laid back but if this happened today I would probably be one of those parents.
 
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Starbuck1975 said:
Why is that a problem, when the article I posted demonstrates that tragedy is often the result of type 2 errors.
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.. Of course it is. I am gathering that don't really understand type 1 or type 2 error because you keep stating obvious things that don't strengthen your argument. I know you are a smart guy, I'm sure you see the downside in excessive type 1 error.
 
Lanyap said:
I too was appalled after reading OP's link. It was clearly racism. She would not have called campus police if they had been white. But then I found another of the many articles out there that had more of the 911 call information and context. Now I am not so sure about the racism charge. It sounds like the woman was reluctant to call the campus police but did so only after the boys would not answer anyone's questions about themselves. She even apologized for calling.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/native-american-blames-discrimination-campus-ordeal-065405732.html
"According to a police recording from a woman on the tour that started the incident, the caller told a dispatcher that the teens arrived late in the tour and wouldn't respond to questions about their names or what they wanted to study at the school.

"They are not, definitely not, a part of the tour," said the woman, identified in a police report as a 45-year-old white woman from Colorado. "And their behavior is just really odd. And I've never called, ever, about anybody. But they joined our tour. They won't give their names."

The woman also said during the call that the teens were "lying the whole time," but doesn't offer specifics to support the claim, except to say that one of them laughed when she asked what they were studying. She also repeatedly told the dispatcher that her concern could be "completely paranoid" and apologized "if it's nothing."

"They're probably fine and just creepy kids," she said.

Other than saying the teens were wearing all black clothing with "dark stuff on it," the caller did not physically describe them until questioned by the dispatcher. She said she believed they were Hispanic, and described their clothing as having a "weird symbolism or wording on it."

It appears at least one of the brothers was wearing a T-shirt of a death metal band called Cattle Decapitation. On its Facebook page, the band offered the teens "free guest list spots to our shows for life."



Here is the campus police report. Additional details of the incident.
https://safety.colostate.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/18-758_Redacted.pdf


I do know people that have become hyper-sensitized by the mass school shootings and terrorism. Authorities are telling everyone to report anything unusual (see something, say something). They have become overly cautious about incidents like this. Looks like this lady falls into that catagory after reading all of the details of the incident.

I do believe this lady should personally apologize to these kids and their parents.


Personal anecdote. My daughter attended her first year college orientation last year with my wife and I in tow. We were in a large auditorium with several hundred people and the dean of admissions was talking. This scrawny white kid wearing a dingy grey hoody popped up and started talking about an incident with his father. He was alone at the orientation. It sounded like "crazy talk". The weather was hot in Florida and no other new student was wearing a hoody. Everyone looked at this kid and had a strange look on their face like - WTF? I'm sure more than one parent talked to campus authorities afterwords relaying their concern about this kid. I'm pretty laid back but if this happened today I would probably be one of those parents.
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But why should they have to answer this woman's questions? Maybe they were just shy or felt irritated at being questioned? I just don't get what she thought the 'threat' was. People can wander onto a university campus quite freely if that's what they want to do - what did she think was their sinister plan at joining the tour? A crazed shooter could just wander onto the grounds and start firing, no need to join a tour.

And a university is generally full of adults, it's not as if it was a school, full of children. If it were a tour of a school, populated by the under-16s, and two such adults appeared, that would be something else entirely. But then schools generally have some checks on who they let onto the grounds, for that very reason.

As for teenage students having t-shirts of crappy metal bands - surely it would be unusual if they _didn't_?
 
TheVrolok said:
.. Of course it is. I am gathering that don't really understand type 1 or type 2 error because you keep stating obvious things that don't strengthen your argument. I know you are a smart guy, I'm sure you see the downside in excessive type 1 error.
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Excessive anything is bad. There is nothing excessive about acting when something is out of place. There is something wrong when race or skin color is the basis or primary criteria someone uses to perceive something as out of place.

The only argument I am making and will continue to make is that I wouldn’t chalk this situation up to race at a time when people are rightfully afraid of another mass shooting scenario, and the article I posted backs up my argument that many of these shootings were preventable had people said something when they felt something was “off”.
 
pmv said:
But why should they have to answer this woman's questions? Maybe they were just shy or felt irritated at being questioned? I just don't get what she thought the 'threat' was. People can wander onto a university campus quite freely if that's what they want to do - what did she think was their sinister plan at joining the tour? A crazed shooter could just wander onto the grounds and start firing, no need to join a tour.

And a university is generally full of adults, it's not as if it was a school, full of children. If it were a tour of a school, populated by the under-16s, and two such adults appeared, that would be something else entirely. But then schools generally have some checks on who they let onto the grounds, for that very reason.

As for teenage students having t-shirts of crappy metal bands - surely it would be unusual if they _didn't_?
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The tour guide also questioned the kids. But I understand what your saying. I was on a college tour with my daughter last year and I personally would not have thought anything about these kids tagging along. Like I said, I believe it's the hyper-sensitization syndrome and some mothers can be overly cautious about their kids these days. I know.

I am primarily referring to the immediate racism charge. After finding out more of the details of this incident I don't think the mother called just because these kids had a different skin color. I'm sure there were other POC kids in the tour sessions.
 
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Starbuck1975 said:
the article I posted backs up my argument that many of these shootings were preventable had people said something when they felt something was “off”.
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Do you realize that every day in this huge country, tens of thousands of things would appear to be "off". Do you want to police to be called in every time? Do you realize what the implications of this are? Do we want to live in a police state?
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Excessive anything is bad. There is nothing excessive about acting when something is out of place. There is something wrong when race or skin color is the basis or primary criteria someone uses to perceive something as out of place.

The only argument I am making and will continue to make is that I wouldn’t chalk this situation up to race at a time when people are rightfully afraid of another mass shooting scenario, and the article I posted backs up my argument that many of these shootings were preventable had people said something when they felt something was “off”.
Click to expand...

In the call she commented that one was Hispanic and probably Mexican. She made it about race. This was absolutely about race.

Are people rightfully afraid of a mass shooting? This goes hand in hand with "rightfully afraid of terrorism." You have to define rightfully. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Absolutely not.

What is a rationale thing to fear varies from person to person, certainly, but when people are fearing mass shootings and terrorism dramatically more so than obesity, diabetes, and heart disease (things that will actually likely kill/maim them) it seems fairly irrational and in not sure it's "rightful" to fear. Definitely not to the point of the actions of the woman in this incident.
 
Noah Abrams said:
Do you realize that every day in this huge country, tens of thousands of things would appear to be "off". Do you want to police to be called in every time? Do you realize what the implications of this are? Do we want to live in a police state?
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Earlier in the thread I stated that police aren’t necessarily the first response.
 
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