This Incident Saddens and Disgusts Me

[WelshBloke]

What is not simple is why the call was made. People seem to be hanging their hats on racism but I wasn't there, and realize that I have a fair amount of Native American in my genes although there's not much physical expression in appearance. Was it racism or something unfamiliar?

It was stupid either way, and the cops shouldn't act on stupid.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It was stupid either way, and the cops shouldn't act on stupid.

Ok. The woman was stupid. The cops pass. Suprise, it's a mass killing!

The problem with stupid is that you can't always afford that it's also wrong.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What is not simple is why the call was made. People seem to be hanging their hats on racism but I wasn't there, and realize that I have a fair amount of Native American in my genes although there's not much physical expression in appearance. Was it racism or something unfamiliar?

From the original link

"The 911 caller, who has not been named, told a dispatcher that the students’ “behavior is just really odd”, according to audio released on Friday. “They’re definitely not a part of the tour.”

The woman further said the black clothing they were wearing was suspicious, that they appeared to be Hispanic and that one was from Mexico. She later added: “They just really stand out … They’re just creepy kids … It actually made me feel sick.” The mother, who left the tour to call police, said another man on the tour also “believed they don’t belong”.

The woman claimed that the teens weren’t answering her questions about why they were there and “were lying the whole time”.

Yep, doesn't seem to be any chance at racism here.

 

[OutHouse]

======

 

[Amused]

There are no exceptions.

Yes, of course not. Especially when it comes to your bigotry and racism.

 

[The Merg]

I'm sorry, while I first thought I'd be outraged, I don't feel it...

When speaking with the officers, a few things stuck out to me... The first was that the subjects joined into the tour after it had started (they admitted they were late), the second was that when they were asked questions by the group, they would not answer the questions or show proof they belonged with the group (they had shown up late), and finally, they had no parents with them, which also seemed odd. So, is the fact that "they didn't belong" have to do with the fact that they were Native American or because of these other issues that made them stand out?

- Merg

 

[Commodus]

I was the white guy. I didn't fill the prescription because it was a fraudulent opiate prescription. The woman started yelling loudly that it was because she was black and I was racist to other customers and then bitched to corporate who gave me hell. I had to prove my innocence. Fortunately I scanned the prescription because I saw this coming just as I expected someone here would damn me in advance without waiting for the facts. You aren't a bad person but you have shown that rational people assume too much to honestly approach racism due to their biases they have adopted as truths

In your case, you were entirely valid. And it's true that we do have to be cautious. At the same time, I think we can both agree that non-white people in the US get a ton of unwarranted alarm from white people who let racist biases take over.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm sorry, while I first thought I'd be outraged, I don't feel it...

When speaking with the officers, a few things stuck out to me... The first was that the subjects joined into the tour after it had started (they admitted they were late), the second was that when they were asked questions by the group, they would not answer the questions or show proof they belonged with the group (they had shown up late), and finally, they had no parents with them, which also seemed odd. So, is the fact that "they didn't belong" have to do with the fact that they were Native American or because of these other issues that made them stand out?

- Merg

Obviously it was a 'good shoot'.

 

[The Merg]

Obviously it was a 'good shoot'.

???

Did you quote the right post?

- Merg

 

[Victorian Gray]

???

Did you quote the right post?

- Merg

Yes.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I'm sorry, while I first thought I'd be outraged, I don't feel it...

When speaking with the officers, a few things stuck out to me... The first was that the subjects joined into the tour after it had started (they admitted they were late), the second was that when they were asked questions by the group, they would not answer the questions or show proof they belonged with the group (they had shown up late), and finally, they had no parents with them, which also seemed odd. So, is the fact that "they didn't belong" have to do with the fact that they were Native American or because of these other issues that made them stand out?

- Merg

Yes but they would not have been questioned, or those other things would have become noticeable, if those two were Caucasians.

Non whites do get treated differently

Some non whites, mostly black in my experience, cry racism when they are found doing something wrong

Both of the above are true.

 

[The Merg]

Yes but they would not have been questioned, or those other things would have become noticeable, if those two were Caucasians.

Non whites do get treated differently

Some non whites, mostly black in my experience, cry racism when they are found doing something wrong

Both of the above are true.

That may or may not be the case in this situation. While the caller obviously did not know what ethnicity/race the subjects were, that does not necessarily mean it was race based. We do know that she provided "their" ethnicity/race when she called the police, but for all we know, it could be because she was trying to describe what they looked like. A common question from a call-taker when you call the police is going to be for you to provide the race and sex of the subjects you are calling about.

And I can definitely see your point of view...

- Merg

 

[Puffnstuff]

Normal kids.

Normal kids living in an F'd up world.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You should stay home. It's safer. Don't forget to lock all the doors and windows though.

I appreciate your concern.

Well you're the one saying that they said "Thank you" so you tell me.

I don’t need to.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Don't you have to allow for probabilities?

Is there really, statistically, sufficient likelihood that it signifies a potential shooting to justify notifying 'authorities'? I really dont' think so. You have _one_ case of a shooter doing such a thing, and there are umpteen other cases of shooters walking in front doors or wearing shoes or hats any number of other irrelevant details you could fixate on.

Personally, i think I'd have judged that the chances it was a case of 'about to let a shooter in' to be so close to nil as to be not worth bothering with when compared with the, greater, risk involved in stirring up 'the authorities' unecessarily - because it might end up involving cops who seem to who have a bit of a track record of over-reacting and being trigger happy.

However, as long as these 'security' people weren't armed I'd say it wasn't a big deal either way. The far more plausible 'risk' was surely just that he was some rapscallion wanting to let in his pals to see the movie without paying, and it's your call whether you want to snitch on someone for that. Probably depends on how old and grumpy one has become, really [I'm not that old and embittered against the young, myself...yet].

Probabilities would tell you that no one should be milling about the exit door of a theater once the movie starts. An overreaction would be to call the cops. A reasonable reaction is to notify the theater staff and let them handle it appropriately, which they did.

 

[Jaskalas]

Probabilities would tell you that no one should be milling about the exit door of a theater once the movie starts. An overreaction would be to call the cops. A reasonable reaction is to notify the theater staff and let them handle it appropriately, which they did.

On that note, and moving back to the subject...
One wonders if the campus tour did not have anyone in charge to raise a concern to, before calling... 911.

Or maybe people are so scared they'd rather call the police first, and not draw any more attention unto themselves.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I appreciate your concern.


I don’t need to.

I have no concerns thanks as you seem to have cornered the market. It's just simple advice as the world at large seems to terrify you.

(edit: spelling)

 

[Capt Caveman]

Was there no tour guide that this dumbass woman could have asked if they were part of the tour?

 

[Zorba]

Don't you have to allow for probabilities?

Is there really, statistically, sufficient likelihood that it signifies a potential shooting to justify notifying 'authorities'? I really dont' think so. You have _one_ case of a shooter doing such a thing, and there are umpteen other cases of shooters walking in front doors or wearing shoes or hats any number of other irrelevant details you could fixate on.

Personally, i think I'd have judged that the chances it was a case of 'about to let a shooter in' to be so close to nil as to be not worth bothering with when compared with the, greater, risk involved in stirring up 'the authorities' unecessarily - because it might end up involving cops who seem to who have a bit of a track record of over-reacting and being trigger happy.

However, as long as these 'security' people weren't armed I'd say it wasn't a big deal either way. The far more plausible 'risk' was surely just that he was some rapscallion wanting to let in his pals to see the movie without paying, and it's your call whether you want to snitch on someone for that. Probably depends on how old and grumpy one has become, really [I'm not that old and embittered against the young, myself...yet].

Whats the probability of an AR-15 being used in a mass shooting?

That said, I think see something, say something is insanely overused (Just sign on to nextdoor.com some time, HFS). And I'd like to see assault rifles banned, but it is a little hypocritical.

 

[Zorba]

Stupid slogan. I see 'things' every minute of the day. As does everyone. Nobody would ever shut up if they followed that slogan. Surely it should be 'see something genuinely suspicious to a rational person, that isn't just based on prejudice or being a moron, and sufficiently so that it's worth the risk of cops with guns turning up...then say something'.

Based on posts on my neighborhood's nextdoor.com page, I am pretty sure the poor paper delivery guy gets the cops called on him about once a week. It is INSANE how many people live in complete fear all the time.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I have no concerns thanks as you seem to have cornered the market. It's just simple advice as the world at large seems to terrify you.

(edit: spelling)

Can I come live in your glass house, it seems super safe.

 

[Zorba]

That may or may not be the case in this situation. While the caller obviously did not know what ethnicity/race the subjects were, that does not necessarily mean it was race based. We do know that she provided "their" ethnicity/race when she called the police, but for all we know, it could be because she was trying to describe what they looked like. A common question from a call-taker when you call the police is going to be for you to provide the race and sex of the subjects you are calling about.

And I can definitely see your point of view...

- Merg

It is a college tour, most universities just let you walk up and join a tour, it's not like they are an invitation only matter. I never did any type of campus tour with my parents, because they worked. My friend and I did a bunch of visits, none with parents. It is also a public university, so anyone can walk around campus if they want, you don't have to be a student or being on an official tour.

The thing I don't get about paranoids is they are just afraid of everything, and use no logic. Why exactly would a couple of criminals jump onto a campus tour and follow them around? Just like people in my neighborhood don't want a sidewalk to the elementary school because it might let in "bad guys" even though we don't live in a gated community (but for some reason I guess bad guys would rather park and walk from a place with cameras, than on the street in front of the house).

At least @Starbuck1975 story had someone doing that could logically be part of a crime.

 

[pmv]

Whats the probability of an AR-15 being used in a mass shooting?

That said, I think see something, say something is insanely overused (Just sign on to nextdoor.com some time, HFS). And I'd like to see assault rifles banned, but it is a little hypocritical.

I don't think so. I'm not conceding that. As a probability based on observed incidents, the chances of 'someone walking into a public place like a theatre or a university carrying a rifle' being associated with a shooting is way higher than the chances of 'someone standing by an exit door' or 'not being white' being so. And the costs of erring on the side of caution are different also.

Having a gun is kind of an essential precursor to shooting people. Same is not true of other things.

I'm straining my brain trying to interpret your argument as charitably as I can....I suppose one could say that 'seeing someone with a gun' is not grounds for calling the cops in a context where you expect to see lots of people with them - e.g. at a shooting range or while out hunting. But they are also different topics anyway - banning guns vs calling the cops at something deemed suspicious are quite different issues. If you happen to be in a culture and location where people carrying guns is allowed and is commonplace then it would indeed be pretty silly to call the cops over it. Whether that should be the law in the first place is a separate question.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I suppose that next these kinds of folks will want wigwams or teepees placed on their drivers licenses to help distinguish their uniqueness. Gotta keep track of whether they're from the east side or the west side of the reservation right?

 

[HomerJS]

Just existing as a person of color is hazardous in Trump's America