Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Or perhaps you're simply wrong ... again.
For myself, I don't post much any more because of a lack of reasoned, rational, thoughtful opposition. There used to be a handful of Bush supporters here who were capable of interesting discussion. Unfortunately, in my opinion, they have either disappeared or dived into the Kool-Aid, abandoning reason in favor of knee-jerk attacks and mindless parroting of the Bush propaganda points. As long as they act as if Bush is perfect, as if it is a mortal sin to even question this administration, then any attempts at discussion with them are a waste of electrons.
are you saying that Bush is always wrong cause I've never seen you write anything positive about him? Or am I wrong...again?
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Haha good one raildogg. I think he's done with thread now
Done with the thread?
Everything I said was accurate. If my information was wrong please tell me. They are all facts.
If anyone wants to portray any country as a "role-model" they sure as hell better not have all the flaws I just listed.
I don't make threads about India praising them or sharing their economic news on a daily basis or vise versa. I will attack anyone who comes here and says India is great, India > Pakistan, India > M.E, etc. That's a load of crap. Nothing more than someone's opinion because they are from India.
The only role-model for the M.E and Asia are the U.S bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. The entire place is a big pile of dump and we can argue all day which one is the nicer pile of dump.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
Yes, you are wrong again. I have, in fact, supported Bush on several specific occasions here. I even listed several of them in a post once -- you're welcome to search for it in the archives. For example, I remember lauding Bush for visiting the troops in Iraq on Thanksgiving, and I argued that criticizing GWB because his grandfather had alleged Nazi ties was unreasonable. Unfortunately, that's not good enough for the Bush true believers. Their simple-minded black and white worldview cannot accept anything less than unconditional support. They cannot accept that people have legitimate complaints about Bush's actions and policies, insisting instead that anyone who ever questions their feckless leader is acting out of rabid personal hatred. As far as I can remember, this would explain why you think I've never "written anything positive about [ Bush ]."
well I'm glad that you're not as extreme as others, like the person that posted right after you. However, I find it disturbing that when your opinion is challenged with more enlightened thoughts or a better argument, you tend to accentuate the negative.
I'm not a rabid Bush fan, just a fan of globalization and American supremacy. I usually stay away from the domestic topics, except when it comes to the economy. As for social issues, I'm more of a centrist/liberal.
Bush is not one who will admit guilt and that's usually a prelude to future mistakes. But to take his actions as a singularity rather than American policy is stupid and that's where I fault most of those that do not like this Administration. The Iraq war is one huge example. I don't want to argue about the merits of the war, but it had always been American foreign policy that Iraq was a threat, it had 16 UN violations, and that it had WMDs. Bush didn't just make that up when deciding to invade Iraq. In fact, the 9/11 attacks complemented those accusation cause the Administration felt that the marriage between regimes and nation-states like Hussein's Iraq and terror organizations was too much for America.
That, my friend, is where we should begin our argument about Iraq, not when Bush decided himself to invade. But I don't want to discuss it cause our starting points will always be different. That difference is the cause of so many frictions. To say the President was wrong is to admit that various Administrations were wrong, not just the first Bush Administration. The same can be said for SS reform. And the list goes on and on and on.
If you want to have a constructive argument, then you need to find some common ground, such as where to start off.
it's says it but you probably don't understand that. This is the greatest country in the world and I have an upcoming thread that shows America's destiny was laid out by the founding fathers' clear choice of inspiration. But this is getting off-topic. I'll entertain you later.
EDIT: Of course, we all need to dampen your statement to uncover their more rational meaning. In that case, supremacy imperalist empire= world leader.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Because, all things considered, the US sucks less than the others. Maybe that's not saying much, but it still makes us the greatest in the overall scheme of things.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Abraxas
Golden Member
- Oct 26, 2004
- 1,056
- 0
- 0
Not to be a pain but I was hoping for something more concrete than that.
I cannot accept that money and power are the best measures of what makes a country great. Following that logic throughout history the greatest regimes have been those of iron fisted tyrants who were able to carve out vast quantities of wealth for themselves.
I mean, going into World War II, the US was a relatively minor military power as I recall, World War I even more so. Japan, Germany, and the Soviet Union were all more powerful and I believe wealthier at the time. If a history buff could confirm or correct this it would be much appreciated. Perhaps I can buy that they were great in scale but I hesitate to give the title of "great" to the Third Reich and Stalinist tyranny of the Soviet Union.
As for our tradition, I must ask what tradition specifcally you are reffering to. Our traditions aren't particularly old compared to some nations, such as China and Japan, and they really don't differ all that greately from those of the rest of the first world now. Perhaps we raised the bar with our introduction of the republic to the global scene but let's be reallistic about that too, it was over two centuries ago. Everyone concerned with those events has been dead for well over century. I do not believe the past can be used as a measure of present greatness.
I think if we are going to claim greatness we are either going to have to admit it is only our opinion or find an objective scale on which we can measure greatness.
We are the oldest democracy on earth. That is our tradition. Oh, and we spent more money during WW2 than Germany, and had twice as many soldiers. I wouldn't exactly call that "minor." We have the greatest economy the world has ever seen, the most power any nation as ever seen, and the most money. If that's not greatness, I don't know what is. To top it off, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, the highest GDP/capita of any significant country, etc...
Abraxas
Golden Member
- Oct 26, 2004
- 1,056
- 0
- 0
As I said though, everyone involved in founding that democracy is long dead. I do not believe past greatness can be used to support the idea of present greatness. Assuming you are correct about Germany, I believe our contributions to the war were still smaller compared to what the Soviet Union deployed. In any case, what about WWI when, as I recall, we were the 16th strongest military on the planet? Were we not so great then?
According to many economists, even those in mainstream economic journals, the US economy is on the brink of collapse. The way our economy works is foreign investors send money into the US by billions every day and our economy depnds on this money to keep lurching forward. With the rapid drop in the dollar and the industrialization of China, the US is looking an ever less favorable place to invest money in. Because of this, economists estimate a major economic decline in the US as near as within the next five years. Our unemployment numbers are fudged as well, seeing as we stop counting people as unemployed once they have been out of work for six months regardless of whether they are looking for work, the so-called "under employed" figures are much, much higher. Who gets to decide what country is significant or not?
While we may be the greatest military power the world has ever known, our military power has never meant less. With the rise of globalisation unilateralism and imperialism are no longer viable simply due to the damage other nations can do economically by pulling investments. When other nations own full percentages of your economy they hold a great deal of control over what you can and can't do. With the US fading as a center of global commerce and the ever increasing probability of the US no longer being the standard world currency, our military prowess is rapidbly becoming all but irrelevant.
On the other hand, aside from money and military prowess, the American education and healthcare systems are weak comapred to much of Europe, as, I believe, is general quality of life as it is measured. Those are things I value more than living in a nation that has alot of corporate wealth and miliktary gadgetry.
According to many economists, even those in mainstream economic journals, the US economy is on the brink of collapse. The way our economy works is foreign investors send money into the US by billions every day and our economy depnds on this money to keep lurching forward. With the rapid drop in the dollar and the industrialization of China, the US is looking an ever less favorable place to invest money in. Because of this, economists estimate a major economic decline in the US as near as within the next five years. Our unemployment numbers are fudged as well, seeing as we stop counting people as unemployed once they have been out of work for six months regardless of whether they are looking for work, the so-called "under employed" figures are much, much higher. Who gets to decide what country is significant or not?
While we may be the greatest military power the world has ever known, our military power has never meant less. With the rise of globalisation unilateralism and imperialism are no longer viable simply due to the damage other nations can do economically by pulling investments. When other nations own full percentages of your economy they hold a great deal of control over what you can and can't do. With the US fading as a center of global commerce and the ever increasing probability of the US no longer being the standard world currency, our military prowess is rapidbly becoming all but irrelevant.
On the other hand, aside from money and military prowess, the American education and healthcare systems are weak comapred to much of Europe, as, I believe, is general quality of life as it is measured. Those are things I value more than living in a nation that has alot of corporate wealth and miliktary gadgetry.
Maybe you should read about the ancient Romans, Indians, Persians and Greeks. Most of our democratic ideals stem from ancient cultures.
We are a blip on the radar right now in the full scope of the human experience. There is a greater disparity in wealth throughout the world than ever before in recorded history. I really don't think we have been all that great to the outside world. In fact we have been quite insidious. We are pretty good to our own citizens though.
I can't help but think if the rise of America was just circumstance. If any group of men under one banner was as brutal as the founders of this country I'm sure they would have been just as successful. The Native Americans pretty much kept this 'new' continent and all of its resources pristine for us to rape. One thing I have learned is that the philosophy of peace is bullsh!t. Arm yourself. To the teeth. And get ready to crush anyone in your way. The marauding Muslim armies of the Middle Ages, the European Imperialists and Crusaders as well as the Vikings and Mongols all had this down to a tee. Nothing substantial is gained in this world through peace. Unimaginably advanced and powerfully intellectual nations such as the Romans, Persians and Indians were decimated in the span of a few years by people willing to use the sword.
You can sit under some tree and debate human existence for a decade but if someone comes and cuts off your head what does it matter?
Well I don't post much anymore because of 2 reasons. One reason is because I'm pretty busy with things in my life and the second reason is that I just got bored of posting about politics/news. Its just the same topics over and over under new titles and the same people posting the same replies. Once you've read 20 posts, you've read them all.
I've been wondering why I haven't seen you around much lately. But I kind of figured why you left. More and more, this place is becoming another OT.
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