Third time's A charm, or Third time's THE charm?

[extra]

The third time is neither "a charm" or "the charm"... but if it were, it would be "a charm"..."a" implies some sort of ... symbiosis...
now, the truth is...the charm is that time when you have either given up, pray that "if there is a god, this will work the next time i try it"... and it does. or... hitting yourself and/or others with a blunt object, repeatedly, until the charm "sinks in"....

 

[gigapet]

clearly its the.....

'A' would make no sense at all. how is this even debatable.....

 

[allisolm]

Originally posted by: brigden
I have never in my entire life heard the expression, "Third time's THE charm." Always read, or heard the expression used with an "A".

Interesting. I have never (until this thread) heard the expression "Third time's A charm.

Wonder if it is regional.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: MacBaine
I can't believe there are so many brain dead idiots in here who think it's 'A'. If you'd pull your head out of your ass and actaully think about the meaning of the phrase, you'd realize how stupid 'A' sounds.

Take it easy.. this is ENGLISH we're talking about... assuming that it makes sense is usually the first mistake

But my vote is still "the".

 

[ABitTooSpicy]

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: KingNothing

Originally posted by: DingDingDao
Side note: My gf is very impressed with the quick responses from you guys. Thanks all :beer:

Nerds love to argue vehemently over pointless trivialities. Haven't figured that one out yet.

S'ok. I have gotten into plenty of arguments over pointless trivialities--my gf thinks my nerdiness is attractive

:camera:s?

 

[DingDingDao]

Lol read the last half of the posts on this thread this morning, and I have to say that I really wasn't trying to start a flame war. It was just a simple question...

 

[skace]

Why would it be 'the' if every third time is the charm. Can all 3rd times be _the_ charm?

 

[Legendary]

If it were "third time's A charm" then that would leave open the possibility of the second or even fourth time to be "a charm," thus negating the usefulness of said third try.
Now, if third time is THE charm, then the third try is most certainly the charm, and all other times are heretofore charm-less.
/verbosity

 

[DougK62]

It's 100% 'the'. You kids that think it's 'a' need to step away from the slang and ebonics and learn how to speak correctly.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: DougK62
It's 100% 'the'. You kids that think it's 'a' need to step away from the slang and ebonics and learn how to speak correctly.

Says the kid with baseball cap on backwards

(looks at DougK62's icon)

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: DougK62
It's 100% 'the'. You kids that think it's 'a' need to step away from the slang and ebonics and learn how to speak correctly.

Is it really necessary to flame half the posters along with providing your opinion? Sheesh...it's a figure of speech I'm asking about.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: DougK62
It's 100% 'the'. You kids that think it's 'a' need to step away from the slang and ebonics and learn how to speak correctly.

Is it really necessary to flame half the posters along with providing your opinion? Sheesh...it's a figure of speech I'm asking about.

I'm only flaming part of that crowd. It's one thing to ask which is correct, and it's quite another thing to insist that a wrong is a right.

 

[Thraxen]

Hate to break it to you guys, but they both make perfect sense. "The" just adds exclusivity to the third try. But does that really matter? Who decided that the 3rd time was the only charm? Also, saying it is "the" charm does not mean it isn't "a" charm as well.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Hate to break it to you guys, but they both make perfect sense. "The" just adds exclusivity to the third try. But does that really matter? Who decided that the 3rd time was the only charm? Also, saying it is "the" charm does not mean it isn't "a" charm as well.

yeah, I seem to remember that almost as common phrase, "seventeenth time is also a charm..."

 

[Thraxen]

yeah, I seem to remember that almost as common phrase, "seventeenth time is also a charm..."

1. Not the point
2. Lots of people have other "lucky" numbers.

 

[maziwanka]

the!!!

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: MacBaine
I can't believe there are so many brain dead idiots in here who think it's 'A'. If you'd pull your head out of your ass and actaully think about the meaning of the phrase, you'd realize how stupid 'A' sounds.

OWNED ONCE

OWNED TWICE

third time not necessary



However, I do believe both can be appropriate depending on the context.

seems all the 'THE' people have bad attitudes. This is interesting...

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: gururu
OWNED ONCE

OWNED TWICE

Ok look at your links more closely. Don't ask that website if "third time's a charm" is a phrase. Instead, ask that website, what is the equivalent for the phrase "third time lucky". Yep that website you used says this: "third time's the charm."

I think "the" it more appropriate in most situations. Think of the phrase "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again". Notice how you are supposed to do it 3 times? Again think of the phrase "Third time lucky", you are supposed to do it 3 times. Basically our society has said to do something 3 times. The third time it should work and if not, then give up. Thus the third time is the time to get it done. It is not a time as that implies someone should try 4, 5, 6, 10, 100000 times.

Think about the "a" in more detail. If the third time is just "a" time, why isn't the phrase "the fourth time's a charm" or "the fifth time's a charm". You could say they are all "a" charm. There is no rhyme or reason just to say one of them is "a" charm since they are all "a" charm. That is like saying the "third day in the week is a day". Damn right it is "a" day, but that phrase really has no useful meaning. But the phrase the "third day is D-day" or "third day is THE day" both have strong meanings - they aren't useless phrases using arbitrary numbers.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
2. Lots of people have other "lucky" numbers.

In that case, you are more than welcome to proclaim that "The fifth time is THE charm"

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: dullard
Ok look at your links more closely. Don't ask that website if "third time's a charm" is a phrase. Instead, ask that website, what is the equivalent for the phrase "third time lucky". Yep that website you used says this: "third time's the charm."

I think "the" it more appropriate in most situations. Think of the phrase "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again". Notice how you are supposed to do it 3 times? Again think of the phrase "Third time lucky", you are supposed to do it 3 times. Basically our society has said to do something 3 times. The third time it should work and if not, then give up. Thus the third time is the time to get it done. It is not a time as that implies someone should try 4, 5, 6, 10, 100000 times.

Think about the "a" in more detail. If the third time is just "a" time, why isn't the phrase "the fourth time's a charm" or "the fifth time's a charm". You could say they are all "a" charm. There is no rhyme or reason just to say one of them is "a" charm since they are all "a" charm. That is like saying the "third day in the week is a day". Damn right it is "a" day, but that phrase really has no useful meaning. But the phrase the "third day is D-day" or "third day is THE day" both have strong meanings - they aren't useless phrases using arbitrary numbers.

ok link me to the page for the phrase "third time's a charm"... oh you can't, because it doesn't exist. Are you going to argue about a possible typo vs. a dedicated page? And what about the other site? No 'THE' to be found.

You are drawing a circular argument. You justify your use of 'THE' by suggesting that ALL actions must be performed three times. Then you say if, the third time is a successful action, that you must use 'THE'.
The reality of it is that the phrase is indicating a mythical trend; Such as, "The third time has been A charm in the past". There is nothing definitive about it, because it's based on LUCK. You can't predict luck. Therefore, spoken to should try one more time after two bad attempts. It is never said before the the first or second actions are attempted.
Following a successful third action, I then believe "The third time's the charm" can be used, only because it was indeed the lucky attempt.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: gururu
OWNED ONCE

OWNED TWICE

Ok look at your links more closely. Don't ask that website if "third time's a charm" is a phrase. Instead, ask that website, what is the equivalent for the phrase "third time lucky". Yep that website you used says this: "third time's the charm."

I think "the" it more appropriate in most situations. Think of the phrase "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again". Notice how you are supposed to do it 3 times? Again think of the phrase "Third time lucky", you are supposed to do it 3 times. Basically our society has said to do something 3 times. The third time it should work and if not, then give up. Thus the third time is the time to get it done. It is not a time as that implies someone should try 4, 5, 6, 10, 100000 times.

Think about the "a" in more detail. If the third time is just "a" time, why isn't the phrase "the fourth time's a charm" or "the fifth time's a charm". You could say they are all "a" charm. There is no rhyme or reason just to say one of them is "a" charm since they are all "a" charm. That is like saying the "third day in the week is a day". Damn right it is "a" day, but that phrase really has no useful meaning. But the phrase the "third day is D-day" or "third day is THE day" both have strong meanings - they aren't useless phrases using arbitrary numbers.

Are you serious with that link? It's just a forum, like this one. I could link to another forum easily where they say third time is a charm. The "official" list of phrases has A charm and not the. I can't believe you even posted that link.

I disagree with your assessment too. Generally when you say the phrase, you've tried it twice and then the third time, it works. I've never heard it said that you should give up after the third try.

Also, it is nothing like saying the third day in a week is a day. It's like saying the third day in a week is a boring one.

I agree with a previous poster who said once you have succeeded, it's THE, but in conjecture it's A.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: torpid
Are you serious with that link? It's just a forum, like this one.

If gururu is going to say we are all OWNED since a forum has a page that uses "a", then I feel it is my right to say that same forum says to use "the". So yes I was serious in pointing out the flaw in gururu's use of the word OWNED.

No you don't have to give up. But the general idea in our society is to try something 3 times. Look around for more advice and more phrases and very few if any will say to do it 4, 5 or 768 times. However the number 3 is used over and over again when referring to a specific number.

And use of "the" is still conjecture. The third time is "the" lucky time. That doesn't mean you will succeed. It is just the hope that you will succeed on the third time. Thus both "a" and "the" are conjecture. We aren't saying "third time is THE success" as that will often be wrong.

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: torpid
Are you serious with that link? It's just a forum, like this one.

If gururu is going to say we are all OWNED since a forum has a page that uses "a", then I feel it is my right to say that same forum says to use "the". So yes I was serious in pointing out the flaw in gururu's use of the word OWNED.

No you don't have to give up. But the general idea in our society is to try something 3 times. Look around for more advice and more phrases and very few if any will say to do it 4, 5 or 768 times. However the number 3 is used over and over again when referring to a specific number.

And use of "the" is still conjecture. The third time is "the" lucky time. That doesn't mean you will succeed. It is just the hope that you will succeed on the third time. Thus both "a" and "the" are conjecture. We aren't saying "third time is THE success" as that will often be wrong.

dullard, I was 'OWNING' that dufus I quoted because he called all 'A' defenders idiots. There has been a bad trend here of users not backing up there arguments with CREDIBLE links. Opinions only go so far, please link to something which defines the use of the phrase 'Third time's the charm'. I have kindly already provided two in support of my argument.

BTW if you look closely at my links, neither takes you into a forum page. Yours did, and that's what Torpid meant.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: torpid
Are you serious with that link? It's just a forum, like this one.

If gururu is going to say we are all OWNED since a forum has a page that uses "a", then I feel it is my right to say that same forum says to use "the". So yes I was serious in pointing out the flaw in gururu's use of the word OWNED.

No you don't have to give up. But the general idea in our society is to try something 3 times. Look around for more advice and more phrases and very few if any will say to do it 4, 5 or 768 times. However the number 3 is used over and over again when referring to a specific number.

And use of "the" is still conjecture. The third time is "the" lucky time. That doesn't mean you will succeed. It is just the hope that you will succeed on the third time. Thus both "a" and "the" are conjecture. We aren't saying "third time is THE success" as that will often be wrong.

Except that his link was not a forum but a reference, and yours was a forum. Check it again. You can get to the one with A from the home page by clicking on phrases that start with T. You can only get to yours by doing a search; and if you notice, it's located in the forum/bulletin board portion of the site and described as a POST.

 

[austin316]

the, a just sounds funny