Thinking about setting up a high end audio system

[EvilYoda]

Did you know that Usher also makes pre-amp/amplifiers too? Their amps are beautiful and if I can find one, I might pick it up. I was able to listen to them at an audio fest back in Michigan.

 

[s44]

OP, speaker size as such doesn't necessarily mean "more sound" or "louder max volume". If you're really concerned about filling your room to reference volume or above, though, you should definitely consider speakers from the pro side like the JTR Triple 12 LF (100db sensitivity!). Sort of monstrous looking, but that sort of efficiency lets you do all sorts of things.

With a $10K budget I'd probably put a few thousand into room treatments (pending the discovery that you already have a perfect room ). That will do much more than getting a more expensive name on your amp. I guess Audyssey MultEQ XT (discussed above in the context of using an Onkyo 876 as pre-pro -- which you should still consider -- or receiver) or an even more expensive EQ system would be an alternative, though.

I'd also spend months auditioning various speakers... There are *so* many brands out there in the $5K range. You might want to read these monstrous AVSforum threads to get a sense of the possibilities. And don't forget to find a place to hear the Salk HT3 and Song Towers...

 

[sdifox]

op, jump on these! Dunlavy SC-V !


http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

I was excluding them, because I have never heard of them before as a company that used Be in their speakers.

Can't find anything on their site that talks about it either.

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

I was excluding them, because I have never heard of them before as a company that used Be in their speakers.

Can't find anything on their site that talks about it either.

It is a beryllium dome tweeter, but they don't play it up much. Their new speakers are fantastic, but I don't like how they changed the Gem 2. The Salon2...now there's a nice speaker.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

I was excluding them, because I have never heard of them before as a company that used Be in their speakers.

Can't find anything on their site that talks about it either.

Not sure about their other lines, but their high-end Ultima2 series is all Be tweets.

Revel is, by the way, Harman's high-end money-no-object speaker brand (and very good at what they do). So maybe we'll see beryllium drivers trickle down to Infinity speakers in a few years...

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

I was excluding them, because I have never heard of them before as a company that used Be in their speakers.

Can't find anything on their site that talks about it either.

Not sure about their other lines, but their high-end Ultima2 series is all Be tweets.

Revel is, by the way, Harman's high-end money-no-object speaker brand (and very good at what they do). So maybe we'll see beryllium drivers trickle down to Infinity speakers in a few years...

Unfortunately, not only is it a manufacturing "issue", but a resource limitation as well.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I did know Focal wasn't the first/only company to use Beryllium, but they were the only ones I knew of in active production with a US presence.

Are you excluding Revel because they're so @#^!@ expensive?

I was excluding them, because I have never heard of them before as a company that used Be in their speakers.

Can't find anything on their site that talks about it either.

Not sure about their other lines, but their high-end Ultima2 series is all Be tweets.

Revel is, by the way, Harman's high-end money-no-object speaker brand (and very good at what they do). So maybe we'll see beryllium drivers trickle down to Infinity speakers in a few years...

As much as I would love for that to happen, I doubt it will.

Be is fairly rare on Earth, and throughout the universe for that matter.

Currently, most production of this metal is accomplished by reducing beryllium fluoride with magnesium metal. The price on the US market for vacuum-cast beryllium ingots was 338 US$ per pound ($745/kg) in 2001

Compare that to say Aluminum (for Al-oxide based tweeters) which is the most common metal on Earth.

While Be isn't super expensive per se, the tools and knowledge to work with it make it more expensive to produce.

I would love to see a Be tweeter that is put on a speaker =<$1500/pair but realistically won't happen soon. I did catch that Harmon owns Revel, which means there are oppertunities for trickle-down tech. Unfortunately Be speakers are considered "elite line" items that companies seem to reserve for their ultra-high end stuff.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...ion-69-1-2-17.paradigm
close at $1600/pair

Er wait, it's $1499?
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...gm_signature_s1_v2.htm

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...ion-69-1-2-17.paradigm
close at $1600/pair

Er wait, it's $1499?
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...gm_signature_s1_v2.htm

24' x 22' x12' is the room size... I don't think the S1 is going to do it

Never mind, just realised you are talking to DisgruntledVirus (after his reply)

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...ion-69-1-2-17.paradigm
close at $1600/pair

Er wait, it's $1499?
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...gm_signature_s1_v2.htm

I may eat my words.

Didn't realize so many companies used Be drivers. I thought it was limited to less than 5 companies. I may have to look at those when I get some speakers. I love Be tweeters, but couldn't find them at a reasonable price with midrange that sounded good. I like Paradigm lower series (like the Monitor 7/11), so I'd imagine I will like that as well.

Originally posted by: sdifox

24' x 22' x12' is the room size... I don't think the S1 is going to do it

I think his point was simply that you can find Be drivers at =<$1500, when I said I didn't expect it to happen.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...ion-69-1-2-17.paradigm
close at $1600/pair

Er wait, it's $1499?
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...gm_signature_s1_v2.htm

24' x 22' x12' is the room size... I don't think the S1 is going to do it

Never mind, just realised you are talking to DisgruntledVirus (after his reply)

Hee. Actually, given the 84db efficiency it would take a LOT of amp power, but the review notes that these things are designed to do >110db.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...ion-69-1-2-17.paradigm
close at $1600/pair

Er wait, it's $1499?
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...gm_signature_s1_v2.htm

24' x 22' x12' is the room size... I don't think the S1 is going to do it

Never mind, just realised you are talking to DisgruntledVirus (after his reply)

Hee. Actually, given the 84db efficiency it would take a LOT of amp power, but the review notes that these things are designed to do >110db.

hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

You missed the Dunlavy SV-Cs I posted?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

You missed the Dunlavy SV-Cs I posted?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

I don't know anything about the Dunlavy speakers. I'm just continuing the Be tweeter tangent that I got on earlier, not saying that the S8s are the winner of what Blurry should get

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

You missed the Dunlavy SV-Cs I posted?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

I don't know anything about the Dunlavy speakers. I'm just continuing the Be tweeter tangent that I got on earlier, not saying that the S8s are the winner of what Blurry should get

much better speakers than the S8 http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_highend_studio_monitor/

You are still single, you can buy them. I would have to call them structural reinforcement columns to get them pass my wife.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

You missed the Dunlavy SV-Cs I posted?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

I don't know anything about the Dunlavy speakers. I'm just continuing the Be tweeter tangent that I got on earlier, not saying that the S8s are the winner of what Blurry should get

much better speakers than the S8 http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_highend_studio_monitor/

You are still single, you can buy them. I would have to call them structural reinforcement columns to get them pass my wife.

Well I am in a relationship, but yeah... not married.

If....
1) I had $4500 sitting around
2) I had a room with some space in it
3) I wan't going to be moving soon
4) I could get a matching center channel for a reasonable price

Then maybe

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Well I am in a relationship, but yeah... not married.

If....
1) I had $4500 sitting around
2) I had a room with some space in it
3) I wan't going to be moving soon
4) I could get a matching center channel for a reasonable price

Then maybe

x2

Although for that price I wouldn't mind the Focal 1007 Be either

<- Focal fanboy what can I say

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Project86
One thing: if you happen to get the Tannoy Kensington (see link above), promise that you will only listen to them while wearing a tux and peering out the window in a creepy fashion, just like in the link.

You don't like the Kensingtons? I wish I had the room for it. I have always liked the Dual Concentric driver and the idea behind it.

I was just commenting on the cheesy picture from the Tannoy website. The only high end Tannoy I have heard was a very old pair of Gold Monitor 15s, and they sounded spectacular.

I also agree that the JTR gear is probably the best bang for your buck out there right now, at any price. Were I not completely in love with my Orion setup I might seriously consider them.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
You should also explain that a speaker like a ML or Magnepan is inherently a bi-polar design, so the way that the sound fills the room will be different than an enclosed speaker (unless you're using something like an open baffle).

Dipolar, not bipolar.

Also, open baffle speakers have the same radiation (at lower frequencies).

And for me, since 95% of the time it's just me and my speakers, I couldn't care less how small the sweet spot is.

Some studies suggest better reproduction of soundstage and ambience when the directivity and/or power output is constant vs frequency.

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
You should also explain that a speaker like a ML or Magnepan is inherently a bi-polar design, so the way that the sound fills the room will be different than an enclosed speaker (unless you're using something like an open baffle).

Dipolar, not bipolar.

Also, open baffle speakers have the same radiation (at lower frequencies).

And for me, since 95% of the time it's just me and my speakers, I couldn't care less how small the sweet spot is.

Some studies suggest better reproduction of soundstage and ambience when the directivity and/or power output is constant vs frequency.

gah, dipolar. It's been a while since I've actually had to put audio-related thoughts into words.

And BTW, you and your studies and specs make me sick. I hope you're not this boring in real life. Do you see numbers coming out of the speakers or do you try to listen to them too?

Ah, the classic battle.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Project86

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Project86
One thing: if you happen to get the Tannoy Kensington (see link above), promise that you will only listen to them while wearing a tux and peering out the window in a creepy fashion, just like in the link.

You don't like the Kensingtons? I wish I had the room for it. I have always liked the Dual Concentric driver and the idea behind it.

I was just commenting on the cheesy picture from the Tannoy website. The only high end Tannoy I have heard was a very old pair of Gold Monitor 15s, and they sounded spectacular.

I also agree that the JTR gear is probably the best bang for your buck out there right now, at any price. Were I not completely in love with my Orion setup I might seriously consider them.

Well, they do expect you to have some coinage to be able to afford them.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
hehe

Better go for the 89db $5400 S8s then
http://www.paradigm.com/en/ref...del-2-17-1-34.paradigm
http://www.soundstage.com/reve...adigm_signature_s8.htm

You missed the Dunlavy SV-Cs I posted?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bi...39620537&/Dunlavy-SC-V

I don't know anything about the Dunlavy speakers. I'm just continuing the Be tweeter tangent that I got on earlier, not saying that the S8s are the winner of what Blurry should get

much better speakers than the S8 http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_highend_studio_monitor/

You are still single, you can buy them. I would have to call them structural reinforcement columns to get them pass my wife.

Well I am in a relationship, but yeah... not married.

If....
1) I had $4500 sitting around
2) I had a room with some space in it
3) I wan't going to be moving soon
4) I could get a matching center channel for a reasonable price

Then maybe

You'll be fine with phantom centre. I just couldn't clear the staircase at my parents place or I would have got them if they were available at 5k back when I was buying.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
You should also explain that a speaker like a ML or Magnepan is inherently a bi-polar design, so the way that the sound fills the room will be different than an enclosed speaker (unless you're using something like an open baffle).

Dipolar, not bipolar.

Also, open baffle speakers have the same radiation (at lower frequencies).

And for me, since 95% of the time it's just me and my speakers, I couldn't care less how small the sweet spot is.

Some studies suggest better reproduction of soundstage and ambience when the directivity and/or power output is constant vs frequency.

gah, dipolar. It's been a while since I've actually had to put audio-related thoughts into words.

And BTW, you and your studies and specs make me sick. I hope you're not this boring in real life. Do you see numbers coming out of the speakers or do you try to listen to them too?

Ah, the classic battle.

Nowhere have I said that the ability of a speaker to please the human ear can be completely quantified. Moreover, a study done to try to correlate a flatter power output and/or directivity vs frequency to improved soundstage must include listening tests, so I am not sure what you are getting at. Should the studies equating flatter frequency response to better sound not have been done?

And I never thought a guy like you would insult me.