They are taking away our careers!

[her209]

How do you guys think we get stuff so cheap here? We pay people near slave wages to do the work of 3 people.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: her209
How do you guys think we get stuff so cheap here? We pay people near slave wages to do the work of 3 people.

Not exactly slave labor since most of the countries dont cost much to live in. As their standards of living rise, their wages will rise as well.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Here ya go!

We understand almost 0 about the the brain, i learned this in neuroscience along time ago but bacically all we know is chemicals and thier migrations nothing about function, reasoning, storage, retrieval etc. But I will spend some time reading what they have before commenting any further,

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: charrison
Yes, but how much would it cost if those shoes were made in the US? If our labor force is better trained, why should they be making shoes and textiles?

What are you talking about, American kids shouldn't be making shoes. All American kids should go to college and be doctors, lawyers, and engineers. What, you think my kid should be an electrician? How insulting, he's going to be a college graduate!

<note, heavy doses of sarcasm present in previous post>

This is the attitude people in the USA seem to have today, though. Then they wonder why nothing is made in this country any more.

 

[MinorityReport]

This is another effect of Gloalization and simple cost factor economics.

As a IT services company for example, why woudl I hire a system analyst or an Oracel DBA programer in US for $65k, pay him insurance, benefits, vacation, 401k, etc etc where as the same job can be done in Delhi, India for $6500 a year ? That is 10 times less ..

Market forces decide my decisions. My proft margins are at stake. Hence, outsourcing is the best alternative for a US based company to engage in profitable business.

When you have capitalism, it works both ways. You suffer and you enjoy , depending on your situation.

Also, US companies hardly care about US or its economy or the nation's long term benefits.

What they are bothered is the next quarter profits and how they will answer to their shareholders.

Tough luck but outsorucing does hit the averge american pretty hard.

I hope NJ does something to save these jobs .. a lot of my buddies who graduated last May and fall are still looking for work or gone to grad school. We have people with CS degeres, CCNA's working in Sears as sles reps.
The dream days of IT are over. Wake up.

 

[athithi]

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: charrison
Yes, but how much would it cost if those shoes were made in the US? If our labor force is better trained, why should they be making shoes and textiles?

What are you talking about, American kids shouldn't be making shoes. All American kids should go to college and be doctors, lawyers, and engineers. What, you think my kid should be an electrician? How insulting, he's going to be a college graduate!

<note, heavy doses of sarcasm present in previous post>

This is the attitude people in the USA seem to have today, though. Then they wonder why nothing is made in this country any more.

I never said that. There is nothing wrong with being an electrician, mechanic, hvac repair, teacher,....
All are required and require far more skill than sneaker assembly. Because our standard of living is so high, we have many high paying skilled position that just do not exist in 3rd world countries.

And yes i agree we should strive to have a strong manufacturing and steel industry. Both are very vital.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: athithi

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

Indian programmers are becoming more expensive. Many companies just do not want to deal with time difference between here and there for project developement.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: athithi

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

I sure hope that stays the case. Good post, and yea I forgot about ITT grads in india and thier pharmacutical industry over there, but I was mainlky talking about your average Patel.

 

[MinorityReport]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: athithi

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

Indian programmers are becoming more expensive. Many companies just do not want to deal with time difference between here and there for project developement.

Tell that to American express.
I called up for CC bill payments and some guy picks up in bangalore. I was first socked .. but its the same with GE and top Fortune 500 ones.
They train the people there to ty forge an "american accent". That CS rep was pretty good I must say .. very hard to figure out he was non american..he even asked me about Super Bowl 😀

He gets paid rs 15,000 a month or $300. Not bad for answering calls at odd hours in India.


Also those who think outsourcing helps US in teh long terms must be pretty optimistic cause rigth now In India there is NO umemployment for college grads, and jobs are plentiful .. with minor qulaifications.

Where as herein NYC.NJ.. we had 30% palcements from top universities thsi year and IT careers is at all time low.

So let face reality .. outsorucing is killing US jobs and our market here.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MinorityReport

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: athithi

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

Indian programmers are becoming more expensive. Many companies just do not want to deal with time difference between here and there for project developement.

Tell that to American express.
I called up for CC bill payments and some guy picks up in bangalore. I was first socked .. but its the same with GE and top Fortune 500 ones.
They train the people there to ty forge an "american accent". That CS rep was pretty good I must say .. very hard to figure out he was non american..he even asked me about Super Bowl 😀

He gets paid rs 15,000 a month or $300. Not bad for answering calls at odd hours in India.


Also those who think outsourcing helps US in teh long terms must be pretty optimistic cause rigth now In India there is NO umemployment for college grads, and jobs are plentiful .. with minor qulaifications.

Where as herein NYC.NJ.. we had 30% palcements from top universities thsi year and IT careers is at all time low.

So let face reality .. outsorucing is killing US jobs and our market here.

2 years ago it was hard for a tech guy to be out of job. The bubble has burst and market needs to correct. The IT market will come back in time.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: BatmanNate
You will both lose your jobs before me because I can punctuate.

in soviet russia, the job loses YOU.

 

[SuperTool]

Globalization means that eventually our wages will equalize with those in India and other places. But it also means that our cost of living will also equalize. If these corporations think that they can move all the jobs overseas and still sustain the high prices they charge in the US, they are very misguided. If we are unemployed or earning less, we aren't going to be the cash cow for the rest of the world.
Personally I don't care. If I can make 15K/year in Russia and live as good as I do here for 75K, I'll go to Russia. I care a lot more about the standard of living than I do about the exact salary.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Globalization means that eventually our wages will equalize with those in India and other places. But it also means that our cost of living will also equalize. If these corporations think that they can move all the jobs overseas and still sustain the high prices they charge in the US, they are very misguided. If we are unemployed or earning less, we aren't going to be the cash cow for the rest of the world.
Personally I don't care. If I can make 15K/year in Russia and live as good as I do here for 75K, I'll go to Russia. I care a lot more about the standard of living than I do about the exact salary.

As do most people, once a country starts to develope the workers quickly desire better stuff.

 

[SuperTool]

The best of course is if you get paid US salary to work overseas in some cheap place. One of my friends is doing that. Talk about living like a king/queen

 

[MinorityReport]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MinorityReport

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: athithi

I donno about you but I can't survive on those wages nor in the slave like conditions they work under,.

Carbonyl, that's not quite true. I work in a crummy cubicle, with a 500Mhz P3 and 192MB of RAM (because I was industrious enough to scavenge for it) and an 8GB HDD working for the largest computer maker in the world. When colleagues from India came here for projects, they laughed at the conditions we work in. I've been to the Infosys campus in Madras, India and frankly I was seriously considering taking up a job there and settling back in India. It's a small (about 13 acres) but beautiful campus and they have just about every facility you could want. OTOH, I am just a contractor here and constantly reminded about it when I miss some facility that is available to regular employees.

Overall though, US Companies can afford to deprive Americans of only so many jobs. Trust me, when Americans are no longer able to purchase these products and services, these companies will pull out of these foreign countries just like that. No matter where the production is, the consumption is almost entirely in the U.S. When there is no demand, no matter how cheap an Indian programmer can work for, there won't be a job for him to do. Also, no industry lasts forever - atleast not without significant change. The changes and innovations have been coming from one country thus far - the U.S.A. This is a good challenge for Americans and like they've done before. they will overcome once more. Oh, and no one can entertain like the Americans do 🙂 I know for sure, that'll always remain here!

Indian programmers are becoming more expensive. Many companies just do not want to deal with time difference between here and there for project developement.

Tell that to American express.
I called up for CC bill payments and some guy picks up in bangalore. I was first socked .. but its the same with GE and top Fortune 500 ones.
They train the people there to ty forge an "american accent". That CS rep was pretty good I must say .. very hard to figure out he was non american..he even asked me about Super Bowl 😀

He gets paid rs 15,000 a month or $300. Not bad for answering calls at odd hours in India.


Also those who think outsourcing helps US in teh long terms must be pretty optimistic cause rigth now In India there is NO umemployment for college grads, and jobs are plentiful .. with minor qulaifications.

Where as herein NYC.NJ.. we had 30% palcements from top universities thsi year and IT careers is at all time low.

So let face reality .. outsorucing is killing US jobs and our market here.

2 years ago it was hard for a tech guy to be out of job. The bubble has burst and market needs to correct. The IT market will come back in time.

Yes I think US will be back in busniess with new techonology like Wireless, cloning or bio med or nano tech big time next few years.

All said and done, US sneezes, entire world gets a cold 😀

 

[jimmyhaha]

supply > demand

lawyer, IT / progammer, doctor, more ? (suggestion)

demand > supply

teacher, general health care, defense and security..

...

 

[gopunk]

n/m

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: Metalloid15
Ok now I am in need of some advice, and I'm sure many others are thinking the same thing. I am a junior in High School, and am wanting to work in the computer field. In lieu of this new info, what is the most profitable section of the computer field to go into?

Do not do a job because of how much it pays. Do what you enjoy doing. Get a job try some stuff out and see what you like.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How odd. Tonight I learned the the NY Times is outsourcing its customer service to India, where they hire PhD's and literally pay them $3.00 an hour. Welcome to the global economy.

 

[Bluga]

China is going to be big in R&D, watch out.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Bluga
China is going to be big in R&D, watch out.

They might, but they have a long way to go.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bluga China is going to be big in R&D, watch out.

They might, but they have a long way to go.

I am curious, what is a long way? Being a science type myself, I can see the US being eclipsed in a generation. The rate of decay of funding for basic science is frightening. Public funding is not keeping up, and business is about business not science. We as a country need to be wary.

 

[Gulzakar]

giving a poor country a chance to make a good living? Seems pretty reasonable to me... the IT field is so over flowed with know-it-all folks,it seems kind of funny! *Nelson points* HAHA!

You would keep these countries poor so you can afford what, a new car? a new home? fancy clothes? For christ sake, give someone else a chance to earn a living. Just think of you getting a job and keeping some poor shmuck out of work, then tell yourself you don't care...until you get laid off.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Bluga China is going to be big in R&D, watch out.

They might, but they have a long way to go.

I am curious, what is a long way? Being a science type myself, I can see the US being eclipsed in a generation. The rate of decay of funding for basic science is frightening. Public funding is not keeping up, and business is about business not science. We as a country need to be wary.

The US is currently responsable for more than 40% of the worlds RnD.