TheVerge.com: current Windows Phone devices will not get 'Apollo' upgrade

[Eug]

But the same can be said for many industries. Each year your CPU is upstaged, your car's engine is outdone, better lightbulbs are released, and even the movies you have on DVD are updated for Blu-ray. Yet you don't see people fussing over whether or not the new motor will fit in their 'old' car or complaining that their brand new DVD player won't play blu-rays or that their 'old' CPU won't fit in the new socket (well, you do around here a bit lol).

Your analogy doesn't work.

If CPUs are updated, that doesn't stop the new updated version of Windows from working on your existing one. For example, I ran Windows 2000 on a motherboard and CPU from 1998, even though the machine shipped with Windows 98.

If new Blu-ray discs come out that don't work on your existing Blu-ray player, your Blu-ray player gets updated to support it.

I was more than pissed when I found out my el cheapo Blu-ray player stopped getting updates after a year. After that I bought a Sony, not only because it had the most stable OS, but also because it had consistent updating. My 2008 Sony is still getting updated in 2012.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

lol so true. Everything from MS has been a "beta test" since the death of WinMo.

If WP7 devices don't get WP8, thats gonna be a big hit for MS. They're basically cutting their losses and starting over. Smartphones aren't cheap, they're a luxury item and consumers should demand every update that is possible on their mobile device.

If you're stuck in a contract for 2 years, you should get at least 2 years of updates.

Agreed.

On the Android side of things even the Samsung Captivate on At&t, the worst carrier for updates, was upgraded for two major Android versions after it's release and most people considered it to have very poor support. In contrast the Lumia 900 will never see a single new os version whcih is far worse. Plus on Android you always have the option to flash a custom rom to get a new version of the os, that won't be happening for Windows Phones

No fans of Windows Pone ever have any reason to criticize Android for slow updates since at least the devices eventually see new versions.

 

[dagamer34]

Agreed.

On the Android side of things even the Samsung Captivate on At&t, the worst carrier for updates, was upgraded for two major Android versions after it's release and most people considered it to have very poor support. In contrast the Lumia 900 will never see a single new os version whcih is far worse. Plus on Android you always have the option to flash a custom rom to get a new version of the os, that won't be happening for Windows Phones

No fans of Windows Pone ever have any reason to criticize Android for slow updates since at least the devices eventually see new versions.

The Captivate got upgraded with two major versions because it shipped with 2.1 when 2.2 had already been out for 2-3 months.

 

[s44]

I think MS is taking the 'high ground' by trying to ensure that WP8 is the modern, flexible, and hopefully durable platform they need it to be. WP7, for all the progress it's made, is still based off fundamentals that were released 16 years ago.

You realize WP8 will be based on NT, which goes even further back...

In any case, the problem is that the last-place mobile platform can't afford yet another reboot. People are already complaining that WP7 was too little, too late, and the likelihood that MS means to throw any market penetration out the, uh, window and start all over is pretty devastating.

Android phones being stuck on Gingerbread isn't a serious problem, because although ICS is much cooler and nicer, GB hit critical mass a long long time ago for app development and support (and with the Fire derived from GB, it's likely to stay that way for a while). WP7 has never gotten there, and this makes it rather less likely that it will ever get there. MS is putting all their eggs in the "we'll control tablets, and get phones from there" idea, but that hasn't yet worked in reverse for Google and is even less plausible for MS with two big and hugely mature competitors instead of one.

 

[shortylickens]

lol so true. Everything from MS has been a "beta test" since the death of WinMo.

If WP7 devices don't get WP8, thats gonna be a big hit for MS. They're basically cutting their losses and starting over. Smartphones aren't cheap, they're a luxury item and consumers should demand every update that is possible on their mobile device.

If you're stuck in a contract for 2 years, you should get at least 2 years of updates.

I will agree they arent cheap, but its up for debate as to whether they're a luxury item.
Way too many people nowadays depend on their smart phone to deal with work and personal lives. I'd liken it more to a pocket-able computer that provides the same utility to a persons life their first desktop computer probably did. Lets do all kinds of neat stuff, manage all your data, and connect you to the world in an instant.
That aint a luxury in a developed civilized nation. Its pretty much essential.

The real problem for MS is all the people who devoted themselves to the WP7 platform and invested what might be serious cash for them (one or two rent payments possibly) are gonna be freakin pissed they cant move into the next generation of software with their current hardware.

As for the contract vs. updates issue: No one on either the service provider side or the manufacturer side promised the customers anything like free updates to the latest software as long as you own your phone.
Which is yet another reason MS is killing themselves cuz Apple does provide updates and most Android makers do as well.

Yup, they got diddly-squat for a customer base and very soon plan on pissing them all off. This will not end well.

 

[zerocool84]

The fact of the matter is that Microsoft is not in a position to mess up. To build brand loyalty, to keep current WP7 users happy, they need to make sure the phones out now are upgradeable to version 8. Even if the average user doesn't care, it's negative press and Microsoft can't afford negative press when they are lagging so far behind. I have no doubt that Microsoft will throw enough money at WP7/8 like they did with the original Xbox to keep it going for a long time, but they need to make sure they don't leave a bad taste in current users mouths.

 

[ultimatebob]

This doesn't surprise me... Microsoft screwed over Windows Mobile 6.5 users as well. They even shut down the app store for that version already.

 

[shortylickens]

This doesn't surprise me... Microsoft screwed over Windows Mobile 6.5 users as well. They even shut down the app store for that version already.

They realized the good money was in the general market which means more pretty stuff and less business stuff. Unfortunately that also meant dumping the old platform. Just as well, they couldnt keep up with iPhone, Android and BB. And BB wasnt even stiff competition.

 

[sequoia464]

Kind of like people don't buy new Android phones because they think they'll get "Chocolate Mousse" or whatever they decide to call version 5

The little woman is gonna be pissed - they told her it was going to be called "strawberry shortcake".

Seriously, I'm probably in the minority, but I'm fine with WP7. I like it better than my wife's android phone. If WP8 is a life changing experience though - I do have an upgrade available.

 

[darkewaffle]

Your analogy doesn't work.

If CPUs are updated, that doesn't stop the new updated version of Windows from working on your existing one. For example, I ran Windows 2000 on a motherboard and CPU from 1998, even though the machine shipped with Windows 98.

I think you're looking at it too literally in that the analogue for 'software' is 'software' and for 'hardware' is 'hardware'. What I meant was more along the lines of WP7:WP8::'old cpu socket:'new cpu socket'. Hardware and software depend on each other equally for progress. In this case (according to the rumor) you have the software leapfrogging the hardware.

The converse is less common because we are actually so accustomed to developers being willing to retrofit (futurefit?) their projects to hardware developments that it's become somewhat of a chicken and the egg scenario. As the world moved from 8 bit to 16 bit and then 16 bit to 32 bit processors was it the "responsibility" of the CPU manufacturer to include backwards compatibility or the "responsibility" of the software developer to update to new standards?

Regardless, point was essentially people usually cautiously embrace progress even if it means out with the old in with the new.

You realize WP8 will be based on NT, which goes even further back...

True, poorly worded. Rather I meant WindowsCE was built for "phones" in a time before smartphones. Whereas NT was built for "computers", and we now have the line between "smartphone" and "computer" becoming ever blurrier which I think makes it a better choice for W8's "all in one" approach.

If WP8 is a life changing experience though - I do have an upgrade available.

To me that's the crux of the matter. I don't think going from WP7 to WP8 will be a life changing experiencing. I would guess you'll see some improved performance and new features but the bulk of overall experience won't change a great deal; I think the benefits are going to be more 'under the hood' in order to allow more powerful hardware, bring more options to app developers, and open up more integrated communication between phone/tablet/PC Windows 8.

 

[Eug]

I think you're looking at it too literally in that the analogue for 'software' is 'software' and for 'hardware' is 'hardware'. What I meant was more along the lines of WP7:WP8::'old cpu socket:'new cpu socket'. Hardware and software depend on each other equally for progress. In this case (according to the rumor) you have the software leapfrogging the hardware.

The converse is less common because we are actually so accustomed to developers being willing to retrofit (futurefit?) their projects to hardware developments that it's become somewhat of a chicken and the egg scenario. As the world moved from 8 bit to 16 bit and then 16 bit to 32 bit processors was it the "responsibility" of the CPU manufacturer to include backwards compatibility or the "responsibility" of the software developer to update to new standards?

Regardless, point was essentially people usually cautiously embrace progress even if it means out with the old in with the new.

That still makes no sense. I consider software to be software, because it is. I consider hardware to be hardware, because it is.

Put it this way... Apple has been notoriously bad at supporting old hardware, compared to Microsoft in general.

With the rumoured Windows 8 Mobile fiasco, Microsoft will have the absolute worst record for backward compatibility, by a mile.

It's no surprise people are pissed.

Remember, that Lumia 900 is current hardware. It's not "old" hardware. Hell, it even supports LTE, which is something even the iPhone 4S can't claim.

 

[WelshBloke]

That still makes no sense. I consider software to be software, because it is. I consider hardware to be hardware, because it is.

Put it this way... Apple has been notoriously bad at supporting old hardware, compared to Microsoft in general.

With the rumoured Windows 8 fiasco, Microsoft will have the absolute worst record for backward compatibility, by a mile.

It's no surprise people are pissed.

I see it as more of problem that Nokia and Microsoft are trying to build up hype and sell a bunch of hardware thats going to be sidelined by both the hardware and software manufacturer quite soon.

If I was in the market for a Windows phone Id certainly put my buying plans on hold for awhile.

 

[Eug]

I see it as more of problem that Nokia and Microsoft are trying to build up hype and sell a bunch of hardware thats going to be sidelined by both the hardware and software manufacturer quite soon.

If I was in the market for a Windows phone Id certainly put my buying plans on hold for awhile.

Yes, that is part of what I'm saying. If I were looking for a non-iOS phone now, the Lumia 900 wouldn't even be a consideration, specifically because Windows 8 (probably) won't run on it.

Same with Android 2.3 or 3.0. If the hardware had no upgrade path to Android 4.0, it would never be a consideration, no matter how good the specs of the hardware looked.

 

[darkewaffle]

That still makes no sense. I consider software to be software, because it is. I consider hardware to be hardware, because it is.

Put it this way... Apple has been notoriously bad at supporting old hardware, compared to Microsoft in general.

With the rumoured Windows 8 Mobile fiasco, Microsoft will have the absolute worst record for backward compatibility, by a mile.

It's no surprise people are pissed.

Remember, that Lumia 900 is current hardware. It's not "old" hardware. Hell, it even supports LTE, which is something even the iPhone 4S can't claim.

Try telling all the WP7 critics that Lumia hardware is 'current' lol.

But that's why it's an analogy. Harry Potter is not hardware but The Sorceror's Stone:The Chamber of Secrets::iPhone 1:iPhone 2. The relationship is logical, not 'actual'. To me WP8 not being compatible with WP7 hardware is no different than a new processor not being compatible with the previous generation's socket. It's a new piece that doesn't go in the old spot, which I think would surprise nobody in 'tech' by now.

All that aside, I still don't think WP8 will be all that different from WP7. WP7 is the closest thing we have to W[P]8 already and has been quite influential in 8's development. As far as a user's personal WP7 experience is concerned I don't think they'll see a big difference, but the problem is it won't soothe their psychosocial need to keep up with the Joneses.

 

[Eug]

But that's why it's an analogy. Harry Potter is not hardware but The Sorceror's Stone:The Chamber of Secrets::iPhone 1:iPhone 2. The relationship is logical, not 'actual'.

Since you mentioned it...

Some Harry Potter Blu-ray discs caused problems on some Blu-ray players. Then those existing Blu-ray players got their OSes updated, and Harry Potter worked fine on them after that.

 

[vbuggy]

The little woman is gonna be pissed - they told her it was going to be called "strawberry shortcake".

Seriously, I'm probably in the minority, but I'm fine with WP7. I like it better than my wife's android phone. If WP8 is a life changing experience though - I do have an upgrade available.

Problem is, that a lot of WP7 users would have been people who were early adopter-enthusiasts, if not 'enthusiasts' in the drooling Apple fanboi manner. The general uncertainty and the relative slowness of movement beyond the initial spurt is, I think putting a lot of those people off - especially given the hardware, which is distinctly underwhelming.

WP7 isn't exactly selling itself, so they need these 'opinion leaders' - at least the few that they've managed to snag, since the guys who're self-absorbed enough to make themselves popular in the blogosphere, or those who crave that, usually tend to be committed Apple 'fans'.

 

[Zstream]

If I don't get an update on this Lumia 900, I'll never ever buy a Microshaft phone again.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The Captivate got upgraded with two major versions because it shipped with 2.1 when 2.2 had already been out for 2-3 months.

honestly, 2.1 => 2.2 was important for the JIT change. It was under the hood. 2.2 => 2.3 isn't a big deal. What more did you get really? I guess the improved stock keyboard was great, but none of these changes are that big compared to iOS revisions.

It seems to me WM changes are bigger in general.

 

[sequoia464]

Don't know if anyone is still following this - but it looks like at least the Nokia Lumia 900's might get the update. Think this might pressure others to do the update as well??

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24664
See paragraphs IV

 

[WelshBloke]

Don't know if anyone is still following this - but it looks like at least the Nokia Lumia 900's might get the update. Think this might pressure others to do the update as well??

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24664
See paragraphs IV

I hope they do update them but that article doesn't really say anything either way.

I also don't trust Jason Mick when he's reporting on smartphones, he's ridiculously biased.

 

[sequoia464]

You are correct - the article isn't very definitive, the fourth section simply states it "may" get upgraded - not much to go on.

Just looking to see if anyone else has any insight.