"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[fskimospy]

aren't you enjoying the show?

That's pretty disgusting. It is of course in no way unique to Israel as I've seen plenty of people in the US basically do the same thing with war footage, but things like this should serve as a stark reminder that many people in Israel have taken on a lot of the attributes that they rightly despised in others.

 

[Abwx]

That's pretty disgusting. It is of course in no way unique to Israel as I've seen plenty of people in the US basically do the same thing with war footage, but things like this should serve as a stark reminder that many people in Israel have taken on a lot of the attributes that they rightly despised in others.

I take as granted that theses are beasts, bloodthirsty beasts, not humans..

From people s customs we can conclude their true religion, not the one they pretend to follow in theory, that his, the one they follow in practice, and as such theses people are very primitive in that to exorcise their fears their need to do ritual sacrifices of thoses they fear.

And their likes are on the planes and using others heavy weapons to execute the rituals sacrifices thoses vampires are seeking and enjoying as a gift for themselves and their equally blood addicted god.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

 

[fskimospy]

I take as granted that theses are beasts, bloodthirsty beasts, not humans..

From people s customs we can conclude their true religion, not the one they pretend to follow in theory, that his, the one they follow in practice, and as such theses people are very primitive in that to exorcise their fears their need to do ritual sacrifices of thoses they fear.

And their likes are on the planes and using others heavy weapons to execute the rituals sacrifices thoses vampires are seeking and enjoying as a gift for themselves and their equally blood addicted god.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

Absurd hyperbole doesn't do anyone any favors.

 

[Abwx]

Absurd hyperbole doesn't do anyone any favors.

That s not even an hyperbole, they are actualy that primitive.

They took revenge of their military losses by killing scores of civilians, the video above is the morning after the night when 13-15 israelis soldiers were killed, and it s clear on the video that they torned apart, using heavy machine gun mounted on helicopters, children, women and elderly that were fleeing the neighborhood in streets where thers was no fighters , we can see that there are only civilians of low age and women fleeing.

How would you call people acting so.?.

What is the rationale if not staging the most despicable terrorism one could imagine, that is using heavy weapons against the most defensless civilians deliberatly..?.

Would those perpetrators have the ridiculous claims to be accounted as human beings.?.

Theses are beasts, the pictures do not lie , only beasts act as savagely, even if their physical appearance make you think thet they are human, actualy they are not, you know the tree by its fruits , even if these are rotten fruits.

 

[fskimospy]

Sigh.

Israel's actions here are deeply immoral, but your declarations of what they are doing based off some photos is silliness.

 

[Abwx]

Sigh.

Israel's actions here are deeply immoral, but your declarations of what they are doing based off some photos is silliness.

You should scroll down, there s a 1min50 video on the link i posted...

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/massacre-shujaiyeh-shelters.html

Deeply immoral is reserved for usual criminals in societies, theses are not of the same barrel, theses are sadisticaly performed war crimes in the goal of eliminating deliberatly people from a diffrent group, otherwise called genocide, in short crimes against humanity.

 

[bshole]

What is the rationale if not staging the most despicable terrorism one could imagine, that is using heavy weapons against the most defensless civilians deliberatly..?.

.

Well in Israels defense, if they don't do it, imma pretty sure Egypt, Syria or some other country would. Killing innocent civillians is kind of what the Middle East is known for..... that and oil. LOL!

 

[Abwx]

Well in Israels defense, if they don't do it, imma pretty sure Egypt, Syria or some other country would. Killing innocent civillians is kind of what the Middle East is known for..... that and oil. LOL!

Two wrongs doesnt make a right, and the zionnazis are not defending unless you call defense killing women and children wich are a majority in the video if you didnt notice, statistics is that they killed 60 in this street among wich are 17 children, 14 women and four helderly, others are adults (18 and over), and we clearly see (from the ones flleeing the zone) that they are not fighters but relatives keeping kids on safe harbour, if ever there are one left.

The israeli zionist nazi usurpatory state is perpetrating state terrorism at its worst level, that is, using airplanes , helicopters and tanks against a civilian population and within a 5000/inhabitants density city, killing randomly civilians as a revenge for military losses, you wont find more despicable and more cowards in any guerilla in the world since thoses latterss as despicable as they are, are still risking their lives when doing their evil things contrary to israelis that just push buttons when killing women and children alike, that is , when killing the most defensless people by the definition.

 

[bshole]

Two wrongs doesnt make a right, and the zionnazis are not defending unless you call defense killing women and children wich are a majority in the video if you didnt notice, statistics is that they killed 60 in this street among wich are 17 children, 14 women and four helderly, others are adults (18 and over), and we clearly see (from the one flleing the zone) that they are not fighters but relatives keeping kids onb safe harbour, if ever there are one left.

The israeli zionist nazi usurpatory state is perpetrating state terrorism at its worst level, that is, using airplanes , helicopters and tanks against a civilian population and within a 5000/inhabitants density city, killing randomly civilians as a revenge for military losses, you wont find more despicable and more cowards in any guerilla in the world since thoses latters as despicable as they are are still risking their lives when doing their evil things contrary to israelis that just push buttons when killing women and children alike, that is , the most defensless people by the definition.

Yea... like I said that is what the Middle East is known for, killing innocent people. I am having a hard time understanding why America should give a shit. Would love to see America pull completely out of that ugly stain on modern civilization and never get involved again.

 

[blsmfade]

israel is killer.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's pretty disgusting. It is of course in no way unique to Israel as I've seen plenty of people in the US basically do the same thing with war footage, but things like this should serve as a stark reminder that many people in Israel have taken on a lot of the attributes that they rightly despised in others.

A little context here...the Israel residents you pictured are from Sderot which is known as the bomb shelter capital of the world. They're located a little over a mile from Gaza and have seen many deaths and injuries as a result of the rocket attacks over the past decade.

Meanwhile the residents of Gaza cheer...
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Prot...-fly-toward-Israeli-population-centers-362549#!

No one meets your lofty moral standards. No one....not even you eskimospy.

 

[fskimospy]

A little context here...the Israel residents you pictured are from Sderot which is known as the bomb shelter capital of the world. They're located a little over a mile from Gaza and have seen many deaths and injuries as a result of the rocket attacks over the past decade.

Meanwhile the residents of Gaza cheer...
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Prot...-fly-toward-Israeli-population-centers-362549#!

No one meets your lofty moral standards. No one....not even you eskimospy.

Ah yes, another attempt to equate the actions of people fighting against the occupation and people doing the occupying. I hope you realize that's never going to fly.

 

[werepossum]

The terrorists lack technology and are being killed by the dozens. You'll count them as civilians because you side with then. You mourn their losses, you wish they had the strength to win. Maybe stronger rockets which would kill Israelis by the dozens. I consider you evil. I expect, when push comes to shove, that the feeling is mutual. That is the nature of conflict. We take sides, we use force.

An olive branch would be a plan of action, an attempt for resolution, without violence. Simply telling your enemy to surrender is not an option. So that leaves us with more grandiose ideas. Such as sweeping the rug out from Israel and Hamas.

1: Current borders of Gaza and West Bank are not to be violated. They should remain with the Palestinians. Israel is to be made to respect this.

2: Refugees should be allowed relief. Egypt needs to be made, by the UN, to open the border to Gaza. Funding should be gathered towards this purpose. To care for anyone who wishes a better life, who wishes to flee the violence of war.
​

Over time this would allow some Palestinians a better life. In turn, people removed from the violence are more likely to condemn it, or wish to find ways to resolve it. The Palestinians we assist through Egypt could turn the tide against Hamas and put an end to this conflict. In short, I think we could find a way for them to liberate themselves.

The situation can improve, we just have to stop wanting people to die first, and take the time to speak out in favor of peaceful alternatives. As a forum we shame ourselves every moment we do not voice our support to such plans. If all we do is cheer on the violence of both sides, then we too have blood on our hands.

It would be very easy for me to wish for Israel to glass the desert. Perhaps easy is wrong. Maybe we have to think outside the box to arrive at better solutions. Who here is willing to join me in doing that?

Egypt tried opening the Gaza passage and were rewarded with attacks, weapons running and smuggling. Should we then force Egypt to accept what we will not force Israel to accept? Clearly it's a lesser penalty as the Palestinians are not trying to kill Egyptians as their lives' work, but I think forcing Egypt to open the Gaza passage and accept what will undoubtedly again happen is unfair to Egypt which today is not a party to the war between Palestinians and Israelis.

A false rose coloured world you present.


The Gaza is a ghetto. Foreign entities control the flow of goods and people while Israel maintains exceedingly crippling blockades down to that of disabling local fishermen from achieving basic services.

Then onto the West Bank where Israel controls the collection and hopeful dissemination of taxes, road blocks and search points throughout, ethnic based highway systems, and through to illegal barriers blockading villages, just how may Palestinans conduct sovereign free trade of goods and services?

Cubby, your rosy and clearly lying propoganda is a loss. Good luck trying again.

[EDIT]

Cubby, let me try again.

What you state is reasonable, but currently unattainable while freedom of travel is not possible and property is annexed and colonised by a foreign occupying power.

Cubby, what you are in fact arguing for is a free, sovereign, and viable Palestinian state.

Currently, under occupation, Palestinians face extreme economically competitive disadvantages. It is intentionally not a level playing field as a weak and divided Palestine more easily enables Israel to imply a guise of extreme and even illegal security measures to further illegally annex territory for colonisation.

These are high international crimes, and reasonably, quite antagonising to the native populations.

Israel, for that dreadful policy of lebensraum, is in control of the viability of Palestinians, but chooses to maintain oppression all for state strategic purposes. Potential Palestinian success and sovereignty is the number one obstacle to the implementation of a greater and more expansive state of Israel.

The longer a two state solution is avoided, the longer Israel annexes new territory.

You are ignoring that the Palestinians are forcing this issue with their violence. The longer the state sponsored violence continues, the more the Palestinians will suffer.

At some point most people will lose sympathy for someone suffering due to their own actions. Most of us hit that milestones long ago with the Palestinians.

I think Krautheimer hits the nail on the moral head with his op-ed piece. Hamas knows its missiles can't inflict much damage on Insrael. But they place their weapons amid civilians and launch those missiles anyway because they WANT Israel to retaliate. They WANT Palestinian civilians to be killed, and they hope the moral double-standard imposed by the world on Israel will then further Hamas's goal of destroying Israel.

Moral clarity

Spot on.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ah yes, another attempt to equate the actions of people fighting against the occupation and people doing the occupying. I hope you realize that's never going to fly.

I'm amazed that you find a couple dozen Israelis sitting around watching their country's military retaliation to be so "disgusting". The media is using this picture to demonize Israel...looks like some have bought into this blatant propaganda hook, line and sinker.

 

[Borealis7]

not to be outdone:

"Setting off celebrations around Gaza, Hamas's military wing announced on Sunday that it had captured an Israeli soldier during fighting. It named the man as Shaul Aron and showed his ID papers, but showed no picture of him in their hands." - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/world-new...l-tops-500-30446701.html#sthash.OQbItAGt.dpuf

maybe there is an equivalence after all - there are idiot on both sides.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm amazed that you find a couple dozen Israelis sitting around watching their country's military retaliation to be so "disgusting". The media is using this picture to demonize Israel...looks like some have bought into this blatant propaganda hook, line and sinker.

The fact that you are describing this as "retaliation" tells me that you've bought into blatant propaganda hook, line and sinker.

If Israel wants people to stop fighting against its occupation and annexation, maybe it should stop occupying and attempting to annex territory in violation of the UN charter and the Geneva Conventions. Pretty simple, really.

 

[fskimospy]

It's always interesting to me to see how US opinion on Israel's policy towards the Palestinians, particularly that of US conservatives, is so sharply divergent from the rest of the world. Is everyone else the victim of propaganda or are we?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The fact that you are describing this as "retaliation" tells me that you've bought into blatant propaganda hook, line and sinker.

If Israel wants people to stop fighting against its occupation and annexation, maybe it should stop occupying and attempting to annex territory in violation of the UN charter and the Geneva Conventions. Pretty simple, really.

Your weak attempt to divert from my point by playing semantics games is duly noted. I guess I don't blame you for diverting as I would also find it quite difficult to defend the picture you posted (a couple dozen people calmly sitting and watching the missiles at night) as "disgusting".

 

[QuantumPion]

I think basically what these discussions come down to is this. Pro-palestinian side thinks Jews are evil and need to be nuked and annihilated out of existence. Therefore, any action they take, including terrorism, using human shields, etc, is justified. There is no way to argue against such blind hatred, and these discussions ultimately go nowhere. You will never be able to convince someone that thinks that Jews are evil that they have the right to defend themselves. You will never convince a group that wants to eradicate the Jews that they can have peace if they just stop attacking, because their goal isn't peace, or land. It's genocide, plain and simple.

 

[Atreus21]

It's always interesting to me to see how US opinion on Israel's policy towards the Palestinians, particularly that of US conservatives, is so sharply divergent from the rest of the world. Is everyone else the victim of propaganda or are we?

Considering the truth of the matter, I'd say everyone else is.

This conflict exists because one side wants the other dead. If that weren't the case, there would be peace.

 

[fskimospy]

Your weak attempt to divert from my point by playing semantics games is duly noted. I guess I don't blame you for diverting as I would also find it quite difficult to defend the picture you posted (a couple dozen people calmly sitting and watching the missiles at night) as "disgusting".

I'm sorry to hear that you believe that noting your transparently dishonest description of events was a 'diversion'. Adopting propaganda language for your terms of discussion is, in my view, an attempt to shift moral responsibility away from Israel.

While I continue to view the recreational viewing of action resulting in the deaths of dozens or hundreds of people as disgusting, I did not in fact post that picture. If you view recreational viewing of death and destruction as perhaps a nice night out on the town, that's your business.

 

[fskimospy]

Considering the truth of the matter, I'd say everyone else is.

This conflict exists because one side wants the other dead. If that weren't the case, there would be peace.

So you think the whole world is wrong and we're the only ones who figured it out? What makes you think we are so uniquely insightful?

 

[Nebor]

Considering the truth of the matter, I'd say everyone else is.

This conflict exists because one side wants the other dead. If that weren't the case, there would be peace.

Seems to be the truth of it. Just because it's the underdog instead of the bully that won't allow peace doesn't make them just or right. If the Palestinians stopped launching rockets and fighting, there would be peace. "Lay there and take it."

 

[Nebor]

So you think the whole world is wrong and we're the only ones who figured it out? What makes you think we are so uniquely insightful?

American exceptionalism.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I'm sorry to hear that you believe that noting your transparently dishonest description of events was a 'diversion'. Adopting propaganda language for your terms of discussion is, in my view, an attempt to shift moral responsibility away from Israel.

While I continue to view the recreational viewing of action resulting in the deaths of dozens or hundreds of people as disgusting, I did not in fact post that picture. If you view recreational viewing of death and destruction as perhaps a nice night out on the town, that's your business.

You pour a hell of a lot meaning into one word...what word should I have used to appease your delicate sense of moral responsibility?