"There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas"

[Atreus21]

I just discovered some respect for Charles Schumer. I had no idea he fell on Israel's side in this mess.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/15/there-is-no-moral-equivalency-between-israel-and-hamas/

EXCERPT:

Amid the recent troubles between Israel and the Palestinians, many Americans and media commentators are drawing disturbing lines of parallelism between the two societies, asserting a false moral equivalency to the actions of each.

In essence, the claim goes like this: “Both sides are fighting each other with similar degrees of violence; both treat each other equally badly; each side is equally to blame for the violence, and they just can’t come together.”

That notion that there is a moral equivalency between the defensive and targeted actions that the rule-of-law-based Israel is compelled to take, and the proactive and indiscriminate actions that hate-based organizations like Hamas takes, is completely unfair, unfounded and infuriating to supporters of Israel — with good reason.

In fact, there is no moral equivalence between the actions and reactions of Israel and Hamas and the Palestinian community to the violence that has occurred.

Two glaring examples stand out. The first revolves around the difference between Israel’s and the Palestinian community’s reactions to the horrible kidnappings and coldblooded murders of four boys, three Israeli and one Palestinian.

No doubt the loss of these children is one beyond words. Both incidents were abhorrent.
But the reaction on both sides was not the same. How did Hamas and too many diverse parts of the mainstream Palestinian community respond to the kidnap and murder of three young Israelis? They cheered.

The official Hamas spokesman called the kidnappers “heroes.” The mother of one of the suspected kidnappers, Abu Aysha, said, “If he [my son] truly did it — I’ll be proud of him till my final day.”

And is it no wonder, given the vitriolic hatred of Israel that has been preached in textbooks and schools to two generations of Palestinian children. Such propaganda has been propagated by not only Hamas, but by the Palestinian Authority, and has created a perverse mythology throughout Palestinian society that calls suicide bombers “martyrs” and extols kidnappers and murderers as heroes.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

 

[brandonb]

I just discovered some respect for Charles Schumer. I had no idea he fell on Israel's side in this mess.
EXCERPT:

I hope you are being sarcastic. The guy is 110% Jewish. This guy would swear allegiance to Israel before the United States. Perfect for a senator in this country to keep us under their thumb.

 

[glenn1]

I hope you are being sarcastic. The guy is 110% Jewish. This guy would swear allegiance to Israel before the United States. Perfect for a senator in this country to keep us under their thumb.

I dislike Schumer's politics but have no reason to think he'd support Israel over the U.S.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Not sure how and what kind of respect Israel expected from a group of people they took land from,...

And, please leave the "UN recognizes Israel!" out of any replies. Because the UN gets shitted on constantly by Israel and it's defacto veto puppet the USA. You can't run to the UN each time Israel's existence is questioned and then dismiss the UN when they admonish Israel's heavy handed responses.

Israel doesn't belong there - period. I am not looking to over turn or kick out anyone, from anywhere. But, they are there. And will refuse to leave, under any circumstances.

A few decades from now, there won't be anything Palestinian. Israel will take over the remaining areas and whatever was Palestine, will be a bookmark/page in Israel's growth.

I don't think there are any benefits to talks, discussions, concessions, diplomacy, sanctions, envoys, etc. This is nothing more than a group of pissed off people (the Palestinians), lashing out and getting smeared across the pavement (by the Israelis). And, when people decry this, it's met with; "Well, they shouldn't have been pissed off,..".

So, it is just a matter of time before we stop hearing about the Palestinians, because they won't be around any longer - of course because of their own fault; they asked for it.

 

[Kadarin]

I hope you are being sarcastic. The guy is 110% Jewish. This guy would swear allegiance to Israel before the United States. Perfect for a senator in this country to keep us under their thumb.

But... He is right.

 

[Atreus21]

Not sure how and what kind of respect Israel expected from a group of people they took land from,...

And, please leave the "UN recognizes Israel!" out of any replies. Because the UN gets shitted on constantly by Israel and it's defacto veto puppet the USA. You can't run to the UN each time Israel's existence is questioned and then dismiss the UN when they admonish Israel's heavy handed responses.

Israel doesn't belong there - period. I am not looking to over turn or kick out anyone, from anywhere. But, they are there. And will refuse to leave, under any circumstances.

A few decades from now, there won't be anything Palestinian. Israel will take over the remaining areas and whatever was Palestine, will be a bookmark/page in Israel's growth.

I don't think there are any benefits to talks, discussions, concessions, diplomacy, sanctions, envoys, etc. This is nothing more than a group of pissed off people (the Palestinians), lashing out and getting smeared across the pavement (by the Israelis). And, when people decry this, it's met with; "Well, they shouldn't have been pissed off,..".

So, it is just a matter of time before we stop hearing about the Palestinians, because they won't be around any longer - of course because of their own fault; they asked for it.

Oh please.

Israel has repeatedly given BACK land it took after it was attacked. They gave back the entire Sinai Peninsula. They gave back the Gaza strip. After which rocket attacks resumed.

You've lost your mind.

The United States is here. We refuse to leave. We must be oppressors.

 

[Abwx]

Land looters using an anecdtot as a general rule and then drawing conclusions without even mentionning that israel is continualy looting land by means of force.

Really a propaganda" that will surely suit the supremacists, as for moral ground, well, let s ask an israeli parliament member who stated this a few days ago :

Ayelet Shaked represents the far-right Jewish Home party in the Knesset. This means she is well to the right of Benyamin Netanyahu, just in case you thought such a thing was not possible.

On Monday she quoted this on her Facebook page: “Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

Advocating for mass murders of children and their mothers, dubbed "snakes"....

And then let s check the degree of morality of about all israeli prime ministers since this state started its miserable existence :

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial." -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Seems that the very zionists leaders do not agree with you, funny isnt it.??.

So keep on spreading your mentaly disabled dedicated falsehood., but i agree on the fact that there s really no moral equivalence between the zionists and the palestinians, so far the land grabbers are the israelis.

A last quote from former prime minister ehud barak that say it all :

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

He nailed it...

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't think it's false equivalence at all. Both sides are equally to blame with this stuff. Whether innocents are killed using crude weapons or with rockets launched from F-16's doesn't really change the fact that both sides are actively killing innocents to punish the other side. Add the fact that one side is living under control of the other, and I don't see any false equivalence.

 

[Abwx]

What is sure is that many people that hang by there are either brainless or are deliberatly lying about israel s supposed moral ground by refuting the israelis leaders statements.

Do people who support the zionists know better than said israelis leaders.??..

A good exemple below :

Oh please.

They gave back the Gaza strip.

Even gaza s birth certificates can only be issued by israel, i wont even talk of economical and borders control issues...

 

[fskimospy]

I just discovered some respect for Charles Schumer. I had no idea he fell on Israel's side in this mess.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/15/there-is-no-moral-equivalency-between-israel-and-hamas/

EXCERPT:

I find this to be pretty selective moralizing. Hamas' attacks on civilians are immoral, illegal, and wrong. There is no justification for this. That being said, Israel's illegal occupation of land is also immoral, illegal, and wrong. Their policy of collective punishment is immoral and illegal. Their creation of an apartheid state is immoral and illegal, etc.

So on the issue of who happens to be bombing who in this instance, I agree that Israel's actions are more defensible. Let's not forget for one minute though that Israel's illegal occupation is one of the primary reasons this is happening to begin with.

 

[Abwx]

But... He is right.

Whoever is racist or supremacist will say that he s right...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Whoever is racist or supremacist will say that he s right...

Are you right?

 

[Abwx]

Are you right?

For more accuracy i would add that whoever is a racist and a supremacist will automaticaly side with racists/supremacists.

It is obvious that people from the US, and elsewhere, who support the zionists continual land grabs are mainly racists/supremacists whose "opinion" is generaly shaped by zionists propagandists like the one whose worthless paper is discussed on this thread.

Notice than nobody did comment on the quotes i posted and it s not by chance.

 

[Newell Steamer]

The United States is here. We refuse to leave. We must be oppressors.

Ever visit Mount Rushmore?

The bold is pretty much stated - by a US park ranger.

Point being; we've acknowledged we've done wrong to the Native Americans. Israel couldn't give a flying fuck about dead innocent people - since they brought it upon themselves, of course.

edit: couldn't

 

[Harabec]

zionists continual land grabs

Israel's (including the west bank) non-desert area is tiny, around 15,000-20,000 square kilometers. You have around 10 million people to put SOMEWHERE, including various utitilies such as water and power stations, plus roads and haven't had the opportunity to plan for proper high-density infrastructure for more than the last 50-60 years.
There's no land to actually grab from anyone because there's almost no land here. We live in a box.

 

[fskimospy]

Israel's (including the west bank) non-desert area is tiny, around 15,000-20,000 square kilometers. You have around 10 million people to put SOMEWHERE, including various utitilies such as water and power stations, plus roads and haven't had the opportunity to plan for proper high-density infrastructure for more than the last 50-60 years.
There's no land to actually grab from anyone because there's almost no land here. We live in a box.

"We need somewhere to put our people" doesn't seem like a very good justification for illegally occupying land.

 

[JEDIYoda]

hope you are being sarcastic. The guy is 110% Jewish. This guy would swear allegiance to Israel before the United States. Perfect for a senator in this country to keep us under their thumb.

your point?
This guy is right!! When the Palestinian Youth was killed after the 3 Israeli youth......
We did not hear the Israelis saying whoever did this was a Hero!

In fact the Palestinians and Hamas did not even go looking for the Palestinians child.....
Yet Israel turned their resources to also finding the Palestinians child...

 

[Abwx]

We live in a box.

I would say in a ghetto...

Seriously , do you think that there s a future without economic ties with other parts of the ME ?.

We all know that all current borders are artificial and that this region historicaly include most of Syria, Lebanon and west of Jordan, do you think that there s a future elsewhere than in some kind of federal state that enclose all thoses countries.?.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Not sure how and what kind of respect Israel expected from a group of people they took land from,...

And, please leave the "UN recognizes Israel!" out of any replies. Because the UN gets shitted on constantly by Israel and it's defacto veto puppet the USA. You can't run to the UN each time Israel's existence is questioned and then dismiss the UN when they admonish Israel's heavy handed responses. <-- now that is funny!! You mean besides the one sided amount of UN resolutions that the US veotes because they are not truthful or unfair??

Israel doesn't belong there - period. I am not looking to over turn or kick out anyone, from anywhere. But, they are there. And will refuse to leave, under any circumstances. <-- says you?? Israel belongs where ever they are at....I see you have no solution to where Israel does belong...

A few decades from now, there won't be anything Palestinian. Israel will take over the remaining areas and whatever was Palestine, will be a bookmark/page in Israel's growth. <-- you truly have no clue do you??

I don't think there are any benefits to talks, discussions, concessions, diplomacy, sanctions, envoys, etc. This is nothing more than a group of pissed off people (the Palestinians), lashing out and getting smeared across the pavement (by the Israelis). And, when people decry this, it's met with; "Well, they shouldn't have been pissed off,..".<--- There has been no benefit to talks because Hamas uses the talks as a smoke screen for rearming. There could have been a lasting peace several times yet Hamas or the Palestinians or others want there to be no peace!!

So, it is just a matter of time before we stop hearing about the Palestinians, because they won't be around any longer - of course because of their own fault; they asked for it.

You know as well as I do that there could have been a lasting peace several times.....

Dude all Israel wants is to be left alone!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Even gaza s birth certificates can only be issued by israel, i wont even talk of economical and borders control issues...

That means nothing...they did give back the Gaza...keep your misinterpretation of the events coming! At least they are good for comic relief with my toast and coffee!!

 

[Abwx]

That means nothing...they did give back the Gaza...keep your misinterpretation of the events coming! At least they are good for comic relief with my toast and coffee!!

I talked about one point while you are always deflecting the discussion, btw , can you comment the zionists prime ministers quotes that i posted since we re discussing moral ground in this topic.?.

Do you support their racists and supremacists statements.?.

 

[cubby1223]

Israel doesn't belong there - period.

I'm glad the matter is settled. So hop in your time machine and prevent the formation of the country.

Oh, you say you don't have a time machine?

Guess you have to look towards solutions dealing in the present rather than bitch about the past.

 

[brandonb]

your point?
This guy is right!! When the Palestinian Youth was killed after the 3 Israeli youth......
We did not hear the Israelis saying whoever did this was a Hero!

In fact the Palestinians and Hamas did not even go looking for the Palestinians child.....
Yet Israel turned their resources to also finding the Palestinians child...

Irrelevant.

And my point is very clear. Since you didn't get it. Just think of your allegiance to Israel compared to the United States. I'm pretty sure when push came to shove, we'd know who'd you be backing between the two.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I'm glad the matter is settled. So hop in your time machine and prevent the formation of the country.

Oh, you say you don't have a time machine?

Guess you have to look towards solutions dealing in the present rather than bitch about the past.

You left his part out,... in bold.

Israel doesn't belong there - period. I am not looking to over turn or kick out anyone, from anywhere. But, they are there. And will refuse to leave, under any circumstances.

Some piece of work you are.