The Worst Financial Nightmare In Illinois History Is Here

[FelixDeCat]

I thought you disliked safe spaces.

I think we all need a place that is safe from stalkers like bryce. But he is ignore until next year, which will give him time to contemplate stalkish behavior. I hope he emerges a better man. Good luck Bryce. 🙂

 

[MajinCry]

Socialism, corruption and people fleeing Detroit as criminals came to dominate led to bankruptcy. The same pattern is happening in Illinois. California is also experiencing capital outflows as socialist Democratic policies are making it hard for business to remain competitive.

Could you stop parroting from your safe space and acknowledge that US capitalism brings international rape and slaughter? Since you're a man of consistent conviction, I have full faith in you readily testifying to it being the greatest evil.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Socialism, corruption and people fleeing Detroit as criminals came to dominate led to bankruptcy. The same pattern is happening in Illinois. California is also experiencing capital outflows as socialist Democratic policies are making it hard for business to remain competitive.

Hold my beer - Kansas

 

[MajinCry]

I think we all need a place that is safe from stalkers like bryce. But he is ignore for the until year, which will give him time to contemplate stalkish behavior. I hope he emerges a better man. Good luck Bryce. 🙂

So you are for safe spaces in order to shield yourself from self reflection. You also have an ego complex, thinking users follow your every move.

Oh honey...

 

[brycejones]

Hold my beer - Kansas

Except Kansas just took steps to fix the mess created by radical GOP.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Could you stop parroting from your safe space and acknowledge that US capitalism brings international rape and slaughter? Since you're a man of consistent conviction, I have full faith in you readily testifying to it being the greatest evil.

Sorry, you dont understand how capitalism works. The first thing you need to know is this - buy low, sell high. Better yourself. Participate. Get ahead. Outdo your competitors by providing the best bang for the buck for all consumers.

Thats about it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Except Kansas just took steps to fix the mess created by radical GOP.

That's good at least.

My point to the kitty was it's not a partisan issue everytime.

 

[IronWing]

I think the IL pensioners are playing with fire. Many (most?) of them are exempt from SS - they don't pay in and won't get any benefits so they have an extra incentive for the pension system to be around. Yet the pension system is in trouble and there is no give on their side. We can debate why we are where we are but that doesn't mean the current situation goes away. A huge number of future retirees are banking on the enshrinement of benefits in the state constitution even though that can be removed if enough people want. (Refusing to budge is a great way to push people in that direction) Even if it stays Detroit has shown that pensioners are not safe from cuts during tough economic times. Will the amendment stand the court test in a financially destitute system? I'm not sure but I sure as hell know I wouldn't refuse to budge if I were in their situation. I would want to work with other parties and would be willing to make small reductions in benefits. Is it unfair? Somewhat. The benefits were promised yes but anyone who looked at the math knew the system has been failing for quite some time now. If you see its not working but say "Too bad - figure it out by making everyone else pay more" instead of working to make the future more sustainable you deserve some of the blame IMO. Even aside from that, reality isn't always fair but that doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it. And its not like the proposals have been stripping away huge chunks of the promised benefits. Tying the COLA to inflation, giving employees raises and then asking them to contribute a few % more towards the pension. The horror!



Per the IL state constitution promised benefits can never be reduced. Lots of proposals to reform the system have been shot down because the unions don't have to give....for now.



Especially among the people who work public service jobs. Illinois has, if not the lowest then one of the lowest contribution requirements towards pensions. Many don't pay a single cent towards their pension in IL and the rest only pay about ~20% of the total outlay towards their pension. Asking public service employees to pay more than 0% - 2% towards their pension is hardly an onerous request.

The workers pay for the pension through their labor. Moving the contribution from one column to the other is simply a pay cut in disguise.

 

[MajinCry]

Sorry, you dont understand how capitalism works. The first thing you need to know is this - buy low, sell high. Better yourself. Participate. Get ahead. Outdo your competitors by providing the best bang for the buck for all consumers.

Thats about it.

So you're just going to stay in your safe space with your fingers in your ears?

 

[brycejones]

That's good at least.

My point to the kitty was it's not a partisan issue everytime.

Fair enough

 

[Exterous]

The workers pay for the pension through their labor. Moving the contribution from one column to the other is simply a pay cut in disguise.

As opposed to the disguised pay cut everyone gets when taxes get raised? And of course its a pay cut but asking someone in a failing system to pay closer to the average makes more sense than 'their labor is their contribution'. MI doubled their employee pension contributions from 4% to 7% while salaries were largely frozen and the workers survived. Personally I'm happy that that means there is a greater chance my wife's pension will be around when we retire. IL workers can survive a 1-2% pension contribution increase and a raise.

But I mean sure - why make small changes now while people have time to adjust when we can just all stick our heads in the sand and let the whole system flail itself to death screwing more people over harder in the future?

 

[Pulsar]

It's like asking why healthcare is so expensive. The answer is...it's complicated 😛

It's just overall bloat everywhere.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/statelocal_spending_2017ILbn

Chicago and the cost associated with the upkeep of it is certainly not helping. Look at the pensions in IL vs IN or IA. All of those cops, teachers, firemen, ect are getting municipal pensions. The cost of employing them is high raising the protection and education budgets. When it comes to healthcare, IL gets back $.46 on the dollar (3 lowest in the country) for every federal dollar that goes out. Compare that to Kentucky that gets almost $2.20 back on the dollar from the feds for healthcare and you have another hole to dig out of.

Then you get into the whole debt issue where 7% of your annual budget is there to repay debt from the previous years.

It's just a pile of factors. Toss in the fleeing tax base of 1500 people (net loss per year), of which I am certain are higher paying jobs .My wifes dept (Pharmacist making 125k a year) lost 10 jobs to out of state positions before she left. I know half a dozen doctors that moved out to better gigs else where. And I doubt that many people are moving *into* rural IL (where we were) to make up for them.

Which is whole other issue. Outside of Chicago it's just not a highly desirable place to live. You have extreme weather in both the summer and winter. Falls are typically awesome. But otherwise it's hot and muggy summers, and cold and shitty winters. Outside of a few pockets in a couple interstate enabled cities there is zero diversity, it's completely rural, and you get shafted in property taxes.

How do they get out of it? There's no magic bullet. They'll need to start moving new municipal employees over to defined contributions instead of benefits for retirement. Hope that their current pension pullers die off earlier than expected. Maybe do some sort renegotiating on the pension rates currently being honored. Figure out some way to reduce their municipal overhead (which means more private schools/emergency responders/ect). And generally shrink down the size of the government.

They can also hope for some kind of federal medicaid expansion and/or a shift to single payer and maybe get more reimbursement for their health care costs vs. other states. They aren't getting paid the same way that others are right now.

Will they do it? No clue. It's second only to DC in swampy'ness.

Let me make it simple for folks. They spend more every year than they bring in. They are fuckwits who are incapable of doing simple math and determining how much they have to pay to pay down the debt, and then cutting their budget to match that so they are solvent. I.E. - you have a bunch of spineless assholes running the government who are more worried about re-election than fixing the state's problems. Just like our country. Only difference is that the state can't inflate their currency to stay out of backruptcy.

 

[IronWing]

As opposed to the disguised pay cut everyone gets when taxes get raised? And of course its a pay cut but asking someone in a failing system to pay closer to the average makes more sense than 'their labor is their contribution'. MI doubled their employee pension contributions from 4% to 7% while salaries were largely frozen and the workers survived. Personally I'm happy that that means there is a greater chance my wife's pension will be around when we retire. IL workers can survive a 1-2% pension contribution increase and a raise.

But I mean sure - why make small changes now while people have time to adjust when we can just all stick our heads in the sand and let the whole system flail itself to death screwing more people over harder in the future?

Or we can raise taxes to pay for the service we already got.

 

[vi edit]

Let me make it simple for folks. They spend more every year than they bring in. They are fuckwits who are incapable of doing simple math and determining how much they have to pay to pay down the debt, and then cutting their budget to match that so they are solvent. I.E. - you have a bunch of spineless assholes running the government who are more worried about re-election than fixing the state's problems. Just like our country. Only difference is that the state can't inflate their currency to stay out of backruptcy.

I'll argue that pensions are anything but simple math.

 

[zinfamous]

Where do you think the money should come from to pay those pensions?

People taking a haircut on pensions is nothing new. It's extremely unfortunate to put it mildly, but it's not uncharted territory.

pensions were the bee's knees until Ronny RayGuns and the GOP told us that we needed to privatize our retirement and trust our future to the better minds of "analysts" and non-fiduciary "advisers" when they converted our livelihoods to the 401K model.

...don't get me wrong, there is much to be said about maintaining control of one's own future, meaning controlling where your money lands in the market, but the decades of readjusting this, keeping the mass intentionally uninformed (companies hiring fund advisers, selling shares and packages over steak dinners to the board, who would never be screwed by the 1-2% commissions that were wholly stolen from employees' livelihoods) was an abject criminal way to treat the labor force. I have learned to be "not a fan" of pension funds as must as the next self-proclaimed patriotic conservative dickhead, but don't pretend to convince yourself that this turnover came at anything other than the necessity of obfuscation over the reality of fees that transferred more than 40-60% of each individual's private wealth into the hands of a newly-created, newly dickhead-anointed class of correspondent course-qualified "investment advisers"

In aggregate, you have to wonder why the middle class complains about that vast amount of wealth that disappeared, you know? And guess what--much of that was your money, too! Assuming you're as old and as ignorant as you present yourself to be. I wonder why aren't pissed off at the GOp as much as you should be, considering you seem to believe that the betters above you deserve oh so much more of the endless amounts of your wealth that they would never miss. You probably feel comfortable in life...yet blissfully unaware of the vast amounts that have long been sucked from your 401k, you deplorable, impoverished peasant.

😀

 

[zinfamous]

Socialism, corruption and people fleeing Detroit as criminals came to dominate led to bankruptcy. The same pattern is happening in Illinois. California is also experiencing capital outflows as socialist Democratic policies are making it hard for business to remain competitive.

Your money has been stolen by the GOP for decades, shuffled off towards the people that you were told deserve it more than you, and they pointed the finger elsewhere. You blissfully obliged, because you are a dependable idiot. Enjoy.

 

[zinfamous]

Socialism, brought to you by the Democrats, is a GIGANTIC failure. Detroit, CA & IL are living proof.

CA is one of the most successful stories over the last 10 years. That's simple fact. (see, that's the problem with 20 year-old half truths that you refuse to update)

Detroit is on the mend. IL is in a shithole, but who knows?

Meanwhile, there's Kansas (lol!), and Texas turning bluer and bluer every year. Eat it, dickhead. 😀

 

[zinfamous]

He's also posing as sonnikku, stolen avatar is stolen.

Would be nice if we could take care of that. somehow. Sheep in Lion's clothing. Not sure why it's tolerated.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

If only somebody had warned them that the entire pyramid would collapse when they eventually ran out of people to tax to pay for the 99% living off the government teat.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

How come the Nightmare always suck or is over dramatized? Why isn't it ever cool, like this. Zombies playing guitar, Rob Zombie being, well Rob Zombie

 

[IronWing]

If only somebody had warned them that the entire pyramid would collapse when they eventually ran out of people to tax to pay for the 99% living off the government teat.

I think the problem is the 1% milking the capitalist teat beyond the system's capacity to support their rapacious greed.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Would be nice if we could take care of that. somehow. Sheep in Lion's clothing. Not sure why it's tolerated.

@ch33zw1z

Yup despicable

 

[FelixDeCat]

FTFY.

Sorry, but IL is terrible.

Socialism, high taxation and legalized potheadism are three main problems of Democratic utopias.

 

[FelixDeCat]

If only somebody had warned them that the entire pyramid would collapse when they eventually ran out of people to tax to pay for the 99% living off the government teat.

I think they are hoping Communism will bail them out. There really is no other explanation.

 

[IronWing]

Socialism, high taxation and legalized potheadism are three main problems of Democratic utopias.

Opiod abusers, wife beaters, and psychotic religious pedophilia are three of the many problems with Republican utopias. This is fun. Shall we go another round?