The WMD Inspector No One Heeded

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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
Heh that's all for tonight. Sorry, but Ritter's just got very little credibility. He's the Dave McOwen of weapons inspectors ;)

He's just so, savagable! ;)
Based on what, though? There is nothing here except innuendo. One only has to look at Bush's smears of McCain and Max Cleland to see his fingerprints all over it. That's not proof, but then again, neither are all these unsubstantiated allegations against Ritter.

Furthermore, none of it changes the plain and simple fact he was right about Iraq's WMDs. While I know this is uncomfortable for Bush supporters, they lose credibility when they try to evade or deny this. Ritter was right, gentlemen. Get over it.


Edit: spelling
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
That's nice Cad. Do you have a point, or is this just another example of your compulsion to hijack any thread that shines a light on the Bush administration? Why don't you and Dari and the other trolls go find a quiet corner for your circle-jerk.

Never mind, it's just a rhetorical question.

Awwww....Not such a good "source" when he questions someone besides Bush? If you'd actually READ what I posted you'd see it doesn't put Bush in a very good light according to Ritter either. But you are right - the light can only shine on Bush....
rolleye.gif


CkG
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Just one more teensy piece...here's what his co-inspectors think of his credibility:

archive of an LA Times article

Ritter's statements have stunned other former U.N. weapons inspectors. Richard Spertzel, the chief biological weapons inspector in Iraq from 1994 to 1998, ridiculed Ritter's assertions during a Senate subcommittee hearing Tuesday.
"How does he know what 100% is?" Spertzel asked. "I don't. And how many biological sites did he visit? The answer is none. He has no knowledge of those sites."

David Kay, the chief nuclear inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1993, agreed. He said Ritter sharply criticized the ability of U.N. inspection teams to disarm Iraq when he testified before Congress.

"Either he lied to you then or he's lying to you now," Kay said. "He's gone completely the other way. I cannot explain it on the basis of known facts."

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
That's nice Cad. Do you have a point, or is this just another example of your compulsion to hijack any thread that shines a light on the Bush administration? Why don't you and Dari and the other trolls go find a quiet corner for your circle-jerk.

Never mind, it's just a rhetorical question.

Awwww....Not such a good "source" when he questions someone besides Bush? If you'd actually READ what I posted you'd see it doesn't put Bush in a very good light according to Ritter either. But you are right - the light can only shine on Bush....
rolleye.gif


CkG
I was about to rip you for being too obstinate to acknowledge your post was off-topic when I dedcided to read it again. Oops, silly me, I almost made a major blunder. Buried in the midst of the predominant, off-topic Kerry-bashing, there was this little gem that supports the column I posted:

[ Ritter: ] I did just that, penning a comprehensive article for Arms Control Today, the journal of the Arms Control Association, on the "Case for the Qualitative Disarmament of Iraq." This article, published in June 2000, provided a detailed breakdown of Iraq's WMD capability and made a comprehensive case that Iraq did not pose an imminent threat.
Thanks, Cad. My apologies for thinking the only thing you're capable of posting is off-topic diversions.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Alc - yet another good article, but it still avoids the point: Ritter was right.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
That's nice Cad. Do you have a point, or is this just another example of your compulsion to hijack any thread that shines a light on the Bush administration? Why don't you and Dari and the other trolls go find a quiet corner for your circle-jerk.

Never mind, it's just a rhetorical question.

Awwww....Not such a good "source" when he questions someone besides Bush? If you'd actually READ what I posted you'd see it doesn't put Bush in a very good light according to Ritter either. But you are right - the light can only shine on Bush....
rolleye.gif


CkG
I was about to rip you for being too obstinate to acknowledge your post was off-topic when I dedcided to read it again. Oops, silly me, I almost made a major blunder. Buried in the midst of the predominant, off-topic Kerry-bashing, there was this little gem that supports the column I posted:

[ Ritter: ] I did just that, penning a comprehensive article for Arms Control Today, the journal of the Arms Control Association, on the "Case for the Qualitative Disarmament of Iraq." This article, published in June 2000, provided a detailed breakdown of Iraq's WMD capability and made a comprehensive case that Iraq did not pose an imminent threat.
Thanks, Cad. My apologies for thinking the only thing you're capable of posting is off-topic diversions.

There is a hell of alot more in there than just that. Oh and why might I ask was that "comprehensive article" brought up? Why wasn't it allowed into the Congressional hearings? If what we want to find out here is "why" - then this is as good of example as any. No one listened to Ritter and he still isn't "proven" right - he just looks somewhat correct so far. But again - sorry that it doesn't fit into you agenda of blaming everything on Bush.

CkG
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
(If the trolls are done for the evening, here is the subject of this thread.)

I thought this column was interesting, from the San Francisco Chronicle:
The WMD Inspector No One Heeded
Harley Sorensen, Special to SF Gate
Monday, February 9, 2004



St. Matthew wrote: "A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country."

Rodney Dangerfield would have put it differently. He might have said, "They love me over there, but here at home I get no respect."

Scott Ritter is a prophet of sorts, and if we had listened to him and respected his intellect, knowledge and honesty, we could have avoided the war in Iraq and its cost in lives and dollars.

In September 2002, Time magazine asked Ritter whose Iraq policy was worse, Bill Clinton's or George W. Bush's. Ritter's response:

"Bush, because of its ramifications. It threatens a war that probably lacks any basis in law or substantive fact. It has a real chance of putting thousands of American lives at risk and seeks to dictate American will on the world."


Who is this Scott Ritter guy?

He's a former U.S. Marine Corps major and former United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq. He's the answer to the question of whether the Bushies knew before the war that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

They knew, or could have known, and certainly should have known.

Before we attacked the Iraqi people, Ritter was often seen on television as a laughable "expert." The Fox News talking heads treated him as a lunatic. How could he be anything else when he disagreed with George W. Bush?

And Ritter has a temper, so that added to the fun. It was a treat to see him get all red faced and wonder when he'd explode.

It mattered not that Ritter was painfully honest and knew exactly what he was talking about.

A search through newspaper and magazine articles leading up to the war against Iraq leads me to these conclusions:

1) Bill Clinton was as concerned about Saddam Hussein as George W. Bush is, but less eager to risk American lives to deal with him. Unfortunately for all of us, the sexy impeachment fiasco pushed by the Republicans diverted our attention, so most of us weren't paying attention.

However, Ritter was far from happy with Clinton's support for the inspectors, or lack of it. In September 1998, he told Newsweek, "I heard somebody say it very effectively: '[Secretary of State] Madeleine Albright blocked more inspections in 1997 than Saddam Hussein did.' It's a funny quip, but unfortunately true."

2) The four days of intensive bombings ordered by Clinton at the end of 1998 probably taught Saddam that his efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction weren't worth the cost. The economic sanctions imposed by the United Nations at the end of the first Gulf War were seriously crippling Iraq, and trying to acquire those weapons simply added to Saddam's misery. He gave up but pretended not to. Saving face is a big deal for dictators, as it is for all politicians (see: "Johnson, Lyndon B."; or "Nixon, Richard M."; or "Bush, George W.")

Those bombings and rocket attacks, by the way, just about matched the munitions thrown at Iraq during the Gulf War. Americans didn't pay much attention, however, and the Republicans accused Clinton of "wagging the dog," diverting attention from his political problems.

3) The "intelligence community" never said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. In all the articles I read, the CIA and other agencies were very careful not to overstate the danger presented by Saddam.

For example, The Washington Post reported in November 2000, "The CIA does not agree that Iraq possesses a crude nuclear weapon. 'We don't believe they have the fissile material required for a nuclear weapon,' said one senior U.S. official. ... 'Nor do we believe they currently have the infrastructure to build a nuclear weapon.'"

4) In a related matter, Clinton was far more concerned about terrorist attacks against the United States than he was about the threat of Saddam. But he had a hard time selling his concern to others, even though he tried. He originated an antiterrorist agency in government in 1994 and increased its budget every year thereafter, from an original $5.7 billion reported in 1995 to $11.1 billion in 2000.

I was unable to find any antiterrorist actions by Bush before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but that doesn't mean he didn't do anything. It could be his efforts just didn't make the public prints, or that I couldn't find the articles about them.


5) Scott Ritter took part in more than 30 inspections missions in Iraq, and probably knew more about Iraq's WMD programs than anyone. The Iraqis were very annoyed with him and accused him and other inspectors of being spies. They were right; the inspectors were pressed into spying. That was a distraction for them.

6) As a U.N. inspector, Ritter was constantly unhappy with the Iraqis because they failed to destroy all their weapons. After the inspectors were pulled out of Iraq in 1998, Ritter appeared to change his tune, saying Iraq's weapons programs were no threat.

The difference, Ritter explained to the scoffers on TV, was that as an inspector, he expected total compliance and didn't get it. Later, as an outsider, he was able to say that even without total compliance Iraq, was no threat.

"I've never given Iraq a clean bill of health," Ritter told Time in September 2002. "I've said that no one has backed up any allegations that Iraq has constituted weapons-of-mass-destruction capability with anything that resembles substantive fact."

The politicians (including Al Gore, who warned of "imminent danger" in 1998) were hyping the Iraq threat, as were my fellow jackals of the press -- especially columnists! -- but the various intelligence agencies were far more prudent. To repeat, they often cautioned against overrating the threat posed by Saddam.

We keep losing troops in Iraq, well over 500 now. God only knows how many arms and legs were lost over there, how many pairs of eyes destroyed. The total cost to each American taxpayer before it's over has been estimated at around $3,000, and when you consider the disability payments we'll be making for the next 50 years or so, that's probably a low-ball guess.

That's quite a price for going after weapons that we had been told do not, and did not, exist. It's too high a price for getting rid of Saddam.

But the real mystery of Iraq is why we're still there. There are no WMDs; Saddam is in custody. Why, now, are we still sacrificing troops and dollars on a guerilla war that will never be won?

What is today's price for funding a president's effort to save face?
There are several people here who like to savage Ritter, though as far as I can remember, none have offered documentation to support their criticisms. I wonder how much of it came from the Faux News slurs mentioned. Note that #6 addresses the question of why Ritter changed his tune after leaving Iraq.

Whatever one may think of Ritter, the bottom line is he was right. He and Blix both provided information well before the invasion that cast Bush's intelligence claims into doubt. I remember reading a Ritter article from the summer of 2002 stating his conviction that Iraq had no significant remaining WMD capabilities. He explicitly stated Iraq had NO remaining nuclear capabilities. Yet some will claim that Iraq's lack of WMDs was a surprise, that there was no way we could have known the truth. Perhaps no one in the Bush administration reads the paper.

Finally, I think point #4 is noteworthy for all the people who claim Clinton did nothing to fight terrorism. While Sorensen doesn't cite his sources, it certainly appears Clinton did far more than Bush did before 9/11. Does anyone have better information to refute this?
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
I wonder how many Iraqi children he molested. He may not have taken the gold, but he got some children. But hey, if you're into that, whatever. What next, you going to quote OJ?

KK
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: KK
I wonder how many Iraqi children he molested. He may not have taken the gold, but he got some children. But hey, if you're into that, whatever. What next, you going to quote OJ?

KK
I have it on good authority he molested one fewer child than you. Why don't you crawl back under your bridge, troll.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Hmmmm . . . interesting, yes very interesting. The very mention of Scott Ritter seems to elicit a certain primate-like rage in the local neocon population. Almost as extreme as mentioning Hillary. Ooops, did I say her name out loud?
 

Mean MrMustard

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2001
3,144
10
81
I'm still having trouble on how pedophilia comes into play with this article. How does it?

Who here is dodging issues? Hmmm...
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
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From one of the Kerry threads...

heartsurgeon -
"Listen up all you liberals...we are tired of you claiming things like this are fact, when they are pure b.s. It is NOT a fact that "he was AWOL" This is total made up liberal hokum...show me ANY link to any article not written by a political hack or quoting Terry McCauliffe as a source that substantiates this b.s."


I'm confident that it's only a matter of time before heartsurgeon comes in here and chastises everybody claiming Ritter is a pedophile.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,892
543
126
There are several people here who like to savage Ritter, though as far as I can remember, none have offered documentation to support their criticisms. I wonder how much of it came from the Faux News slurs mentioned. Note that #6 addresses the question of why Ritter changed his tune after leaving Iraq.
lol! There have been mountains of documentation presented in the case against Scott Ritter. Scott Ritter is Exhibit 1A through 9Z in the case against Scott Ritter.

#6 might attempt to "address" the question of why Ritter "changed his tune", but it doesn't begin to sufficiently answer the question to any minimal burden of logic and reason. Ritter didn't merely "change his tune", which could include a subtle transition from E Major to E Minor. Ritter's transformation was more commensurate with the leap evident between a Caroling Quartet and Death Metal.

Ritter was vigorously promoting Story A months after he resigned and was no longer wearing the hat of "weapons inspector". It wasn't for several more months that Ritter donned the hat of "outsider/pundit" and began telling Story Z.

But let us for the sake of argument accept Ritter's explanation for his quantum flip-flop, difficult though it may be to find a modicum of reason in it. Fine, so the 'first' Scott Ritter was "Weapons Inspector Ritter" and the 'second' Scott Ritter was "Outside Pundit Ritter". Great, got it.

That would mean we were supposed to believe, not "Weapons Inspector Ritter" who "probably knew more about Iraq's WMD programs than anyone", but "Outside Pundit Ritter" who had been out of the intelligence loop for over a year and seemed to undergo a dramatic transformation that would make a thrice-repentant convict more believable.

"Weapons Inspector Ritter" was but one voice among a harmonious choir of weapons and proliferation experts. Not counting Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Azziz and Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, "Outside Pundit Ritter" was but one voice, period.

The author got the title right on the money; "The WMD Inspector [<-- singular form] No One Heeded."

Apparently then, some persons would argue that, if a panel of 10 physicians with unquestioned credentials and no apparent conflict of interest were convened to investigate a mysterious illness, and 9 of those physicians agreed in their findings and conclusions, with one physician reaching starkly different conclusions, it would be a wiser course of action to bet on the lone dissenter and dismiss the broad consensus formed by the other 9 members of the panel.

There may be an open position in the Bush Administration for persons arguing such a preposterous view!

There is simply no way to reconcile these two Scott Ritters using quaint 'hat' metaphors because one is diametrically opposed to the other. The inescapable conclusion was that either Scott Ritter was lying before his transformation, or he was lying after; no matter which Scott Ritter you believed, the other was a bona fide liar.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Ritter gets a lot of respect from me. He has been proven right, Bush wrong. Why would you Bush apologists try to distort the truth, unless you feared it?

Most of the comments above, with the exception of Ritter's criticism of Kerry posted by CAD, are juvenlie blathering. Get a grip on reality.

-Robert
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
one words to describe the reactions to this post, "distractions", thats all there is here, not many people are actually discussing and coming up with counterpoints, mostly its just mud swinging
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
The big concern that I have over ritter is that he has flip-flopped a couple of times on his statements.

Also, to take $$$ from Saddam questions his objectivity and motives.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: alchemize
Heh that's all for tonight. Sorry, but Ritter's just got very little credibility. He's the Dave McOwen of weapons inspectors ;)

He's just so, savagable! ;)
Based on what, though? There is nothing here except innuendo. One only has to look at Bush's smears of McCain and Max Cleland to see his fingerprints all over it. That's not proof, but then again, neither are all these unsubstantiated allegations against Ritter.

Furthermore, none of it changes the plain and simple fact he was right about Iraq's WMDs. While I know this is uncomfortable for Bush supporters, they lose credibility when they try to evade or deny this. Ritter was right, gentlemen. Get over it.

You got that right. This smells like another of Dubya's smears. It is amusing to watch the sheep fall into line to take their shots at Ritter.


--------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over America's eyes since 1980.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The big concern that I have over ritter is that he has flip-flopped a couple of times on his statements.

Also, to take $$$ from Saddam questions his objectivity and motives.

Ritter did not take money from Saddam. It was covered earlier. It is another smear.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Ldir:

The Bushies will foster any lie if it covers up the BIG LIE by the BIG LIAR.

Come on Elephant Noses, pony up something substantitive. So far, CAD has only posted something that confirms how smart Ritter really is. :) And that's the best you've got.

-Robert
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: chess9
Ritter gets a lot of respect from me. He has been proven right, Bush wrong. Why would you Bush apologists try to distort the truth, unless you feared it?

Most of the comments above, with the exception of Ritter's criticism of Kerry posted by CAD, are juvenlie blathering. Get a grip on reality.

-Robert

Which Ritter gets your respect? The liar, the pedophile or the Hanoi Jane wannabe?

Do a search on this board for the multitude of Scott Ritter threads. Do a google search on the same. Read comments from 1998, 99, 00, etc and explain to me the why the change of story. Read about the address of the Iraqi Parliament, the "documentary" that no one has ever seen, read about the arrest and the chatrooms. Then come back here and answer my opening question. I'm very curious what low standard someone has to meet to earn your "respect" so I know exactly what kind of POS I'm dealing with.

If you have any questions, bobby, you let me know.

 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
It's sad that someone has to rely on the words of a wannabe child diddler and someone that took a 300k bribe from Saddam to express their disdain for our current president.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
If any of you guys have evidence of a conviction for child molestation, please post it. If you have evidence he has been convicted of any crime, please post it.

I must have missed them.

-Robert
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: chess9
If any of you guys have evidence of a conviction for child molestation, please post it. If you have evidence he has been convicted of any crime, please post it.

I must have missed them.

-Robert
The evidence already posted is as good as, if not much better, than that:
- Bush went AWOL
- Bush et al knew about 9/11 beforehand
- Bush lied about WMD's in Iraq

But that evidence has always been enough for you hasn't it?

The Bushies will foster any lie if it covers up the BIG LIE by the BIG LIAR.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81