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Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
fskimospy said:
I don't think you read my post very closely as it had nothing to do with selecting for diversity.

There was almost certainly a much smaller pool of nonwhite this year than in years past, my post said as much. This is likely due to the fact that the Republican Party has become a white ethnic party, which was precisely my point. The Republican Party now has such limited appeal to nonwhites that they basically can't hire groups of people that look even remotely like America's actual ethnic makeup. Don't you find that incredibly disturbing?
Click to expand...

I don't believe that the Republican part has become a white ethnic party. That is your opinion, not a fact as you claim. Is there a segment that wants this? Yep, sure is. It is not even close to the majority though. Your claim is not based on facts. Why didn't you answer my questions?

It seems that you, and others, want certain people put ahead of others simply because of race. Do you think black conservatives might be hiding for fear of reprisal? I can tell you that it happens, do some research. Do you think that employers should be forced to hire a certain number or races or genders? Should someone be given a spot over someone else who is more qualified?

Instead of just looking at a picture and making a claim without any facts. Why don't we look at, and try to fix some of the problems that hold some people back. Black high school graduation rate is 69% across America. For whites it is 86%. There are far more whites than blacks in America, and with a higher percentage graduating, the percentage of qualified people for jobs is even more reduced. There are other things that hinder the success as well. We need to work on getting everyone the very best chance at life. An almost 20% difference is appalling, and every effort needs to made to reduce that.

To answer your question, yes I would find that disturbing if based on facts and were true. I don't think that wanting tighter border security is racists. I don't think that kicking out violent illegal felons instead of pardoning them, is racist. Yet some do, and that is why in part you claim that the Republican party has a "limited appeal" to nonwhites. I would personally like to have every job, every school, every anything look like the community it is in. Yet I don't think that people should be given a job over someone else who is more qualified, just because of their race or gender.
 
B

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,055
31,013
136
Ackmed said:
I don't believe that the Republican part has become a white ethnic party. That is your opinion, not a fact as you claim. Is there a segment that wants this? Yep, sure is. It is not even close to the majority though. Your claim is not based on facts. Why didn't you answer my questions?

It seems that you, and others, want certain people put ahead of others simply because of race. Do you think black conservatives might be hiding for fear of reprisal? I can tell you that it happens, do some research. Do you think that employers should be forced to hire a certain number or races or genders? Should someone be given a spot over someone else who is more qualified?

Instead of just looking at a picture and making a claim without any facts. Why don't we look at, and try to fix some of the problems that hold some people back. Black high school graduation rate is 69% across America. For whites it is 86%. There are far more whites than blacks in America, and with a higher percentage graduating, the percentage of qualified people for jobs is even more reduced. There are other things that hinder the success as well. We need to work on getting everyone the very best chance at life. An almost 20% difference is appalling, and every effort needs to made to reduce that.

To answer your question, yes I would find that disturbing if based on facts and were true. I don't think that wanting tighter border security is racists. I don't think that kicking out violent illegal felons instead of pardoning them, is racist. Yet some do, and that is why in part you claim that the Republican party has a "limited appeal" to nonwhites. I would personally like to have every job, every school, every anything look like the community it is in. Yet I don't think that people should be given a job over someone else who is more qualified, just because of their race or gender.
Click to expand...

http://www.people-press.org/2016/09/13/1-the-changing-composition-of-the-political-parties/

TLDR:

The GOP has not kept up with changes in the demographics of registered voters and remains significantly whiter than the pool of registered voters or the Democratic party.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,068
55,589
136
Ackmed said:
I don't believe that the Republican part has become a white ethnic party. That is your opinion, not a fact as you claim. Is there a segment that wants this? Yep, sure is. It is not even close to the majority though. Your claim is not based on facts. Why didn't you answer my questions?
Click to expand...

I didn't answer your questions because they had nothing to do with what I wrote. As to whether or not the Republican Party has become a white ethnic party you can simply look at its changing demographic breakdown over the years. It's 86% white in a country where 70% of voters are white and that trend has continued to worsen. They were 9 points whiter than America as a whole in the 90's and as of 2016 they are 16 points whiter. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even worse in 2018.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/09/13/1-the-changing-composition-of-the-political-parties/

So yes, my claim is based on facts. I mean you didn't seriously think I would say that if the facts didn't back it up, did you?

It seems that you, and others, want certain people put ahead of others simply because of race. Do you think black conservatives might be hiding for fear of reprisal? I can tell you that it happens, do some research. Do you think that employers should be forced to hire a certain number or races or genders? Should someone be given a spot over someone else who is more qualified?

Instead of just looking at a picture and making a claim without any facts. Why don't we look at, and try to fix some of the problems that hold some people back. Black high school graduation rate is 69% across America. For whites it is 86%. There are far more whites than blacks in America, and with a higher percentage graduating, the percentage of qualified people for jobs is even more reduced. There are other things that hinder the success as well. We need to work on getting everyone the very best chance at life. An almost 20% difference is appalling, and every effort needs to made to reduce that.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what any of this has to do with my post.

To answer your question, yes I would find that disturbing if based on facts and were true. I don't think that wanting tighter border security is racists. I don't think that kicking out violent illegal felons instead of pardoning them, is racist. Yet some do, and that is why in part you claim that the Republican party has a "limited appeal" to nonwhites. I would personally like to have every job, every school, every anything look like the community it is in. Yet I don't think that people should be given a job over someone else who is more qualified, just because of their race or gender.
Click to expand...

Okay, so now that we've established that it's based on facts I assume you find it very disturbing? What are you going to do about it? As someone who I imagine identifies at least somewhat with the Republican Party how are you going to fix it so that people who aren't white want to be a part of it again?
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,526
33,069
136
Ackmed said:
Do you think that all employers should be forced to have a certain number of races, or do you think that job performance, resume, experience, school, etc. should factor in also?
Click to expand...
I'm not advocating for race quotas but employers should try hiring outside their comfort zone. Trump hires almost all white males because he thinks they are the best. This administration is the most inept and corrupt in history and is setting records for firings/turnover so clearly this philosophy isn't serving him too well. Perhaps a little flava would help him out.
 
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A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
fskimospy said:
I didn't answer your questions because they had nothing to do with what I wrote. As to whether or not the Republican Party has become a white ethnic party you can simply look at its changing demographic breakdown over the years. It's 86% white in a country where 70% of voters are white and that trend has continued to worsen. They were 9 points whiter than America as a whole in the 90's and as of 2016 they are 16 points whiter. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even worse in 2018.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/09/13/1-the-changing-composition-of-the-political-parties/

So yes, my claim is based on facts. I mean you didn't seriously think I would say that if the facts didn't back it up, did you?

I don't understand what any of this has to do with my post.

Okay, so now that we've established that it's based on facts I assume you find it very disturbing? What are you going to do about it? As someone who I imagine identifies at least somewhat with the Republican Party how are you going to fix it so that people who aren't white want to be a part of it again?
Click to expand...

I do think that you usually post with facts, that is why I only responded to you. One reason I responded to you, and you generally keep it civil. I simply not going to get in the gutters with other posters here who do nothing but name call and insult to someone who doesn't agree with them.

You using a higher white percentage does not mean that the Republican party is becoming a white ethnic party, because of racism. Perhaps border security and illegal immigrates is more of a problem for white people, so they vote that way? Not to mention other races. It is a big issue for many Americans, not just white. They will join a party based on one important issue.

fskimospy said:
I don't understand what any of this has to do with my post.
Click to expand...

It has something to do with your post, because you appear to be claiming that there are not enough black people, because of racism and Republicans only picking white people. If the pool is smaller to choose from, obviously it will slant one way more than the other. Having a much lower graduation rate, will make for less qualified people for positions. And again, you may want to look at black conservatives hiding their party. Because they are afraid of backlash, this is not a made up thing, its real. Who wants to do something and get treated like shit for doing it?

fskimospy said:
Okay, so now that we've established that it's based on facts I assume you find it very disturbing? What are you going to do about it? As someone who I imagine identifies at least somewhat with the Republican Party how are you going to fix it so that people who aren't white want to be a part of it again?
Click to expand...

We're not agreeing that the percentage went up because the Republican party is racist. So we're not going to agree that what you claim is based on facts. Yes I do lean more right than left, I'd say 2/3 right. I like and agree with some things from the left, I like and agree with more things from the right. I would like there to be more diversity in all walks of life. Be it the interns here, jobs in the real world, or anywhere else. I am not just not into forcing it, that is not a good thing, and can have very negative repercussions. I personally raise my kids with my wife to have good values. That everyone should be treated the same. To not disrespect anyone for the color of their skin, gender, or anything else. They have been subject to that from whites and blacks, they know about it pretty well. I have protested when I thought it was the right thing to do, I give to a few charities. I don't know what else you want me to do, or think I should do. I vote based on who I think is best, no matter what. I do not always vote Republican, I sometimes for Democrat. I don't always vote for the white guy, and I never vote just because he's white, I will vote for anyone that I think is best. I suppose its not a lot to help the problem, but its my part.

I'm not going to respond for the rest of today, maybe not tomorrow. We're going to meet our daughter who is an hour and half away for lunch that is going to college, then buy her some groceries. Just letting you know I am not avoiding talking or even debating with you, just got real life shit to do. I enjoy it when civil, which is rare around here anymore. And I can't access this site at work either.
 
D

Denly

Golden Member
May 14, 2011
1,435
229
106
UglyCasanova said:
Do you think we should secure our border?
Click to expand...

Is border just mean Mexico? It is 2018, spend the money on "cyber wall" help prevent all kind of hacking and cyber attack from foreign and domestic. How much money do America econ lose to Mexican walking across the border? How much money America lose by cyber attack every year? A dam wall is nothing more than a status symbols(aka Trump Wall) and you know it. You know what is a way cheaper and easier way? Buy a bunch of drome to patrol the border.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,068
55,589
136
Ackmed said:
I do think that you usually post with facts, that is why I only responded to you. One reason I responded to you, and you generally keep it civil. I simply not going to get in the gutters with other posters here who do nothing but name call and insult to someone who doesn't agree with them.

You using a higher white percentage does not mean that the Republican party is becoming a white ethnic party, because of racism. Perhaps border security and illegal immigrates is more of a problem for white people, so they vote that way? Not to mention other races. It is a big issue for many Americans, not just white. They will join a party based on one important issue.
Click to expand...

To be clear, while I think the Republican Party is very appealing to racists, I'm not actually accusing the Republican Party of being racist here. When I say 'white ethnic party' I don't mean 'white nationalist' or something like that where the Republican Party is deliberately pursuing a race-based agenda. What I mean by it is that their policies are such that they appeal almost exclusively to white people.

It has something to do with your post, because you appear to be claiming that there are not enough black people, because of racism and Republicans only picking white people. If the pool is smaller to choose from, obviously it will slant one way more than the other. Having a much lower graduation rate, will make for less qualified people for positions. And again, you may want to look at black conservatives hiding their party. Because they are afraid of backlash, this is not a made up thing, its real. Who wants to do something and get treated like shit for doing it?
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but hopefully I've cleared up the fact that I am not saying the disparity is due to racism. The disparity is due to the fact that for whatever reason the Republican Party appeals almost exclusively to white people and that seems pretty weird to me.

We're not agreeing that the percentage went up because the Republican party is racist. So we're not going to agree that what you claim is based on facts. Yes I do lean more right than left, I'd say 2/3 right. I like and agree with some things from the left, I like and agree with more things from the right. I would like there to be more diversity in all walks of life. Be it the interns here, jobs in the real world, or anywhere else. I am not just not into forcing it, that is not a good thing, and can have very negative repercussions. I personally raise my kids with my wife to have good values. That everyone should be treated the same. To not disrespect anyone for the color of their skin, gender, or anything else. They have been subject to that from whites and blacks, they know about it pretty well. I have protested when I thought it was the right thing to do, I give to a few charities. I don't know what else you want me to do, or think I should do. I vote based on who I think is best, no matter what. I do not always vote Republican, I sometimes for Democrat. I don't always vote for the white guy, and I never vote just because he's white, I will vote for anyone that I think is best. I suppose its not a lot to help the problem, but its my part.
Click to expand...

Please note that I'm not making any statements about your personal beliefs. You've certainly never said anything that I can think of which would make me think you were some sort of bigot. To me it says a lot of things though, none of them good, that nonwhite people in the US seem to have a big problem being a part of the Republican Party. While I don't think the whole party is racist by any means I do find that the party does not seem uncomfortable with making common cause with racists. Also, Trump currently enjoys sky-high approval ratings among Republicans and he's the first explicitly racist presidential candidate that we've had in a very long time. It's disturbing.

I'm not going to respond for the rest of today, maybe not tomorrow. We're going to meet our daughter who is an hour and half away for lunch that is going to college, then buy her some groceries. Just letting you know I am not avoiding talking or even debating with you, just got real life shit to do. I enjoy it when civil, which is rare around here anymore. And I can't access this site at work either.
Click to expand...

Have fun!
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,526
33,069
136
fskimospy said:
Fair enough, but hopefully I've cleared up the fact that I am not saying the disparity is due to racism. The disparity is due to the fact that for whatever reason the Republican Party appeals almost exclusively to white people and that seems pretty weird to me.
Click to expand...
Think part of that appeal could be the way Trump dealt with Charlottesville?

Think part of the reason could be birtherism?

Think part of the reason Trump's assertions that most of the people who cross the border from Mexico to the US are rapists and murderers?

These as not questions gleamed from assumptions or assertions or fake news, they actually occurred.
 
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Sunburn74

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Ackmed said:
I don't believe that the Republican part has become a white ethnic party. That is your opinion, not a fact as you claim.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Not only are blacks extremely under-represented in the republican party but also are Asians and Latinos. Asians in the US tend to be even more educated than the average white person when you you look at the data so its not a matter of education or wealth or anything like that. Essentially the current GOP is a white, male ethnic party.

Like I've stated before, the democratic party has proposed or passed or taken action that can be said to clearly benefit mostly minorities (it may benefit non-minorities but clearly the majority of the benefit would go to minorities. You can think about the repeated defenses of affirmative action by democratic DOJs in example). I cannot think of a single act by any republican government or regulatory agency in the last 10 years that predominantly benefits minorities (it doesn't even have to be exclusive to minorities benefiting, just that it mostly helps minorities). Not one. If you can come up with one that a republican government or administration has passed in the last 10 years on the state or federal level that clearly helps minorities, please feel free to point it out here in defense of your point.

On the other hand, I can think of many actions that mostly help christian, heterosexual, white males and many actions that directly hurt minorities...
 
justoh

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
No self-respecting person would want to intern at the white house right now, and no self-respecting minority would be a republican or want to work for a republican administration. So in a way this thread is offensive to minorities. Should be ashamed of yourselves, so-called progressives. It's like you guys don't think black people have agency or integrity. :(
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,526
33,069
136
justoh said:
No self-respecting person would want to intern at the white house right now, and no self-respecting minority would be a republican or want to work for a republican administration. So in a way this thread is offensive to minorities. Should be ashamed of yourselves, so-called progressives. It's like you guys don't think black people have agency or integrity. :(
Click to expand...
Imagine Ruby Bridges, Vivian Malone and James Hood had your attitude. Those people don't want you in those schools so why do you want to go? I notice your indignation is not aimed at the current occupant. The White House is a symbol of this country and its ideals. Should people of color be content to deprive themselves of the most prestigious intern position in the country if they so choose because the current occupant is a card carrying racist?

So Republicans don't need to end their racism, people of color just need to go somewhere else? Nice of you.
 
justoh

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
HomerJS said:
Imagine someone pretending not to understand the comparison
Click to expand...
It's a good thing to oppose segregation, since it's "inherently unequal," and especially courageous to be those first individuals to attend those schools. There's no honor in working for Trump. Still denying agency, assuming many minorities want to work there, just because it's a presumed/probable (but not even guaranteed) cv booster.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,526
33,069
136
justoh said:
It's a good thing to oppose segregation, since it's "inherently unequal," and especially courageous to be those first individuals to attend those schools. There's no honor in working for Trump. Still denying agency, assuming many minorities want to work there, just because it's a presumed/probable (but not even guaranteed) cv booster.
Click to expand...
Ok I'll accept by your definition, white people are unethical.
 
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