The Vista and DirectX10 Hype

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: apoppin
if you despise it so much or simply can't figure it out, then DUMP Vista and go back to XP !!
:roll:

You're blindly blundering around trying to make Vista INTO XP is wrecking it completely ...

NONE of us have your issues ... and disabling those very services destroy Vista's performance and security - you are like a bull in a china shop
. . . or Bush's first year in Iraq


You are also spreading silly FUD about DX10 in your complete ignorance of the matter

ridiculous

Depends on the service. I turn off tablet pc and a few other services that are not needed on this desktop. Disabling certain services if you are not networked can vastly improve security. Just make certain you know what you are doing when you disable a service.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: flexy
I can actually list what i disabled:

And..BTW...i DISABLED them to GAIN performance and not LOSE it

You seem like an overall intelligent person. The problem with disabling services for performance in Vista is you will see little to no benefit the majority of times. The reason for this is most of these services run at a low priority and are actually cached into the page file until needed. Vista is designed so that the background stuff does not interfere with the performance of your applications. Your applications will always have the higher priority and will not be impacted by most of these services you disabled.

Disabling real time scanning of Windows Defender is about the only thing you have done that will noticeably improve performance in some situations. If you are still noticing a sluggish system on that hardware with Vista, you have a driver problem somewhere or you disabled something like readyboost.

Disabling readyboost, even on a pc you will not use it on slows down the operating system and makes it feel sluggish. It affects the startup and shutdown times of the OS also.

If you moved the pagefile to a different drive, Vista will be less snappy also. I have experimented with this several times and have had the same effect each time. Aero really suffers as does opening and closing programs. It is best to leave the pagefile alone and leave it on the drive you installed Vista on.

The old tweaks to squeeze performance from XP just do not apply to Vista since it dynamically adjust itself for best performance. You are better off doing very little tweaking and leaving most of the defaults. As I stated before, the only tweak that i have seen a measurable performance increase was disabling real time scanning in Defender. Do not completely disable defender as this affects IE7's protected mode and turns off software explorer. Software Explorer alone is worth leaving Defender enabled. Use it instead of msconfig to turn off unwanted start up software for a much smoother experience.

 

[lxskllr]

If you turn off tablet pc you lose the snipping tool afaik. It doesn't matter one way or another performance wise, but the snipping tool is quite handy. It's one of my favorite new tools in Vista :^)

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
If you turn off tablet pc you lose the snipping tool afaik. It doesn't matter one way or another performance wise, but the snipping tool is quite handy. It's one of my favorite new tools in Vista :^)

I have never used it so I decided to turn off tablet pc as a security precaution. It is one less thing that can be exploited as far as I am concerned.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: apoppin
if you despise it so much or simply can't figure it out, then DUMP Vista and go back to XP !!
:roll:

You're blindly blundering around trying to make Vista INTO XP is wrecking it completely ...

NONE of us have your issues ... and disabling those very services destroy Vista's performance and security - you are like a bull in a china shop
. . . or Bush's first year in Iraq


You are also spreading silly FUD about DX10 in your complete ignorance of the matter

ridiculous

Apoppin,

which services would that be?

Mind you: I have ReadyBoost and Superfetch and similar ON and i dont think i disabled services which would "enhance performance".

I do however disable services where its known that there is action going on in the background at unwanted times - be it the index service, also i dont care for the windows search.

I can actually list what i disabled:

And..BTW...i DISABLED them to GAIN performance and not LOSE it

Internet Connection Sharing
IP Helper
Bluetooth stuff
iscsci
tcp port sharing
offline files
parental controls
pnp-x
PNRP
print spooler
remote registry
routing/remote
smart card stuff
snmp trap
table pc
defender
firewall
media center extender
search
http web proxy
wired autoconfig
wlan

as well as other unnecessary stuff, like QoS packet scheduling w/ TCP/IP.


Oh, just as one example: My GF was just complaining about performance on her brandnew pretty beefed up laptop.
I am checking and seeing Windows update getting some 180MB file, probably installing it right the very same time.
This is odd since her automatic updates were at default "3:00am" which wouldnt be a problem.

What i am saying, all those automatic things happening in the background surely wont contribute making a machine FASTER.

Do you want to give it a FAIR test?

Back up your data and blow-away Vista and do a fresh install.
-DO NOT change a G-D thing - no tweaks ... give it 2 weeks and report back ... in this thread
-then you will experience what the rest of us do
--and IF you upgrade to SP1, give it another week to "settle down"

... and if you don't want to do it i am done wasting my time with you. i will not debate what you have not experienced first hand.

 

[flexy]

well i will certainly take into considerations what some said here, especially in regards to services.

But...btw. i had a reason to disable Defender. Since i do a lot of low-level stuff (rmclock, cpu-z, coretemp, atitool etc..etc..) those all need unsigned drivers. There is a "hack" tool out called "atsiv" which actually enables to load unsigned drivers, even on Vista 64 bit. Defender put this tool into the "malware" blacklist. I need some unsigned drivers "forcedly" loaded, for example when i want to use coretemp or similar. Thats why i disabled defender. I also got rmclock running this way.
But...i can experiment.

Btw...yes..snippingtool rocks

Apoppin...i mean i can always re-enable services. I really, really think there's nothing wrong with my install nor hardware. I also fairly aware of Vista improvements eg. in regards to filecaching and memory usage - this is also ONE reason i do NOT use "enhancing" tool like o&o clevercache anymore like i did under XP. I know that V finetunes itself and stuff there has improved.

 

[SunnyD]

Yes Defender is disabled, i have NOD32 since this is a good anti virus scanner which i use for soem time already. I have the latest updates for DirectX. Gaming performance is NOT a problem as my 3dmarks and overall gaming performance shows.

*sigh* Defender isn't anti-virus. It's anti-malware, and it also keeps IE and other processes intact.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: flexy
well i will certainly take into considerations what some said here, especially in regards to services.

But...btw. i had a reason to disable Defender. Since i do a lot of low-level stuff (rmclock, cpu-z, coretemp, atitool etc..etc..) those all need unsigned drivers. There is a "hack" tool out called "atsiv" which actually enables to load unsigned drivers, even on Vista 64 bit. Defender put this tool into the "malware" blacklist. I need some unsigned drivers "forcedly" loaded, for example when i want to use coretemp or similar. Thats why i disabled defender. I also got rmclock running this way.
But...i can experiment.

Btw...yes..snippingtool rocks

Apoppin...i mean i can always re-enable services. I really, really think there's nothing wrong with my install nor hardware. I also fairly aware of Vista improvements eg. in regards to filecaching and memory usage - this is also ONE reason i do NOT use "enhancing" tool like o&o clevercache anymore like i did under XP. I know that V finetunes itself and stuff there has improved.

no ... touch NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!
-or forget it

... and Leave Defender alone!
-if you need workarounds, let us know ... if you have TONS of programs and HW that needs to go around the driver signing, then run Vista THIRTY-TWO!!!

simple really ... and you will be *amazed*
-try it .... i double-dog dare you ... and leave it 'stock' for 15 days

You don't need to keep on replying here .. just go try it ... DO IT! ... hurry!! ... you are wasting time with words ... go see for yourself ... and please report back
... we will be anxiously awaiting a new convert.

 

[Cl1ckm3]

in 1 year of having XP, i reinstalled about 15 times. why? its slows down with age as everyone knows. very quickly i might add. it can range from gradual to immediate problems, even a simple reboot without you doing anything could result in a non-bootable OS or maybe something simple like a game suddenly wont run or an app will take longer to run or you suddenly run into cd burning errors...etc, the list never ends

vista doesnt slow down with age, it gets quicker. i've never seen an application/game..etc suddenly stop working and never work again, never seen it not beable to boot neither.

Like any computer related product, experience will vary. there are far too many different combo's of PC hardware available for both OEM's and DIY'ers
OS problems can even be directly effected by the mix of hardware used. when you buy a cheap PSU/Mobo and other such offbrand crap then supply it with quad core, top end graphics card, then have the nerve to buy 1 gb of PNY ram then antother gig of Corsair (many people actually do that crap) then wonder why vista doesnt run that great but xp runs fine.....it can also be the other way around or even have XP run fine and Linux encounter problems so the user blames the OS when in reality its typically the driver and/or poor design of the hardware used.
yes even hardware components need to be well designed to ensure accurate data bandwidth...etc if you want the best chance for good drivers, performance efficiency not to mention longer lasting then all hardware in a computer needs to be of good quality. companies like Dell may say vista compatable but that doesnt mean its hardware nor drivers is well designed, vista compatable just means "well we ran all our apps for a couple days and vista seems to work fine for us"

 

[Pabster]

Give it time. Pretending that DirectX 10.x is snake oil and won't provide any benefit to the end user is delusional at best.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3
in 1 year of having XP, i reinstalled about 15 times. why? its slows down with age as everyone knows. very quickly i might add. it can range from gradual to immediate problems, even a simple reboot without you doing anything could result in a non-bootable OS or maybe something simple like a game suddenly wont run or an app will take longer to run or you suddenly run into cd burning errors...etc, the list never ends

I've never had that happen. It certainly isn't the norm. I would check for HD errors and scan for malware if I were you. I've got multi-year XP installs that still just cruse along fine for me.

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3
vista doesnt slow down with age, it gets quicker. i've never seen an application/game..etc suddenly stop working and never work again, never seen it not beable to boot neither.

I would expect that Vista doesn't have "bog down" problems either.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3
in 1 year of having XP, i reinstalled about 15 times. why? its slows down with age as everyone knows. very quickly i might add. it can range from gradual to immediate problems, even a simple reboot without you doing anything could result in a non-bootable OS or maybe something simple like a game suddenly wont run or an app will take longer to run or you suddenly run into cd burning errors...etc, the list never ends

You've got some serious hardware and/or malware issues if your performance deteriorates that rapidly. The only reason I've had to reinstall XP was due to hard drive replacement. Deteriorating performance was more of an issue with Windows 95/98, but I certainly don't see that problem now.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Lock this up, the OP is clueless about Vista.

lolmao..."cute". Elaborate please

I think everyone else is doing a good enough job.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Lock this up, the OP is clueless about Vista.

lolmao..."cute". Elaborate please

I think everyone else is doing a good enough job.

I think it's unfair to call the OP clueless. I've been reading this forum and countless Vista-related threads for a while now, and there seems to be a wide range of experiences. There are many happy users who have had great success with hardware compatibility, software compatibility and overall performance. There are also a number of frustrated users who can't seem to achieve the right balance of performance and stability.

The situation is comparable to Firefox threads we see in the Software forum. A lot of users have good experiences with Firefox, but many also see frequent crashes, out-of-control memory usage and other problems. These can be caused by corrupt profiles, poorly written add-ons, and conflicts with other software. Their bad experience isn't invalid simply because Firefox works for many others; it's simply atypical.

While it seems like many Vista problems can be traced to buggy device drivers and older, incompatible software conflicts, I think a lot of it comes down to perception. A number of people seemed to have negative view of Vista based on initial frustrations, and even though there have been problems (and fixes from Microsoft), that first impression has tainted their overall experience. That said, I'm not sure what purpose a thread like this serves, except to demonstrate that people get way too worked up about defending or bashing a piece of software.

 

[Aberforth]

Yea, I don't understand why everyone takes a piece of sofware to be absolutely perfect, software cannot be absolute perfect otherwise software would never have existed. There are like thousand patches for XP (you might as well call it XP Part 2) and nobody seems to talk about how screwed up it was. The real fact is people cannot accept the idea of a company making money through something that can be obtained freely (through piracy) which is totally unehtical. And there are some people who claim they are 100% satisfied- which isn't true, although we cannot blame them for holding such ideas as the world needs some support.

The problem with windows is people seem to take others word for granted without any personal perspective.

 

[flexy]

guys, ok...i add some "why i dont like Vista" points. MIND YOU....certainly to blame is ALSO the programmers of drivers and 3rd party software. I admit its not always fair to blame VISTA *per se*! But...the problem stays if you just see it from a user's perspective and totally ignore whether its now VISTAs fault or 3rd party developer ---> what counts is the end result and the "user experience".

let's start:

* Windows Mail is supposed to have a spam-filter (AFAIK) since i saw a setting somewhere and thought "HU! This is actually a good thing!" Mind you i have MANY email accounts and i get 500+ emails a day since i am in internet marketing. I get emails for each and any of my sites. I need to check them since i get customer inquiries too.

I set the spam-filter to "high"...but STILL get hundreds of the most obvious SPAM email each day containing Penor enlargement, credit cards and what not. The most obvious spam still comes trough and is NOT filtered out.

* There are two very nice programs, one is called "Hex Workshop" which is a hex monitor which i use once in a while. The other is "Agent Ransack" which is a very versatile search extension to search for/in files.

Under XP all those programs attached to the shell-extension, so i could always right-click any file/folder and then eg. execute Agent Ransack or right-click and load a file into the hex-editor. With ONE click.
This doesnt work anymore. There is just no right-clicjk menu anymore for both of those programs.

* Folder Views. Even if reset alread 10000x since i want my folders all at "detail" setting it constantly seems to reset back and every new folder, eg. when i download shows lare ICONS.
Also..the menu/tabs order for the folder views seems to constantly change. I set it to "name, size, date modified"....bet the next folder i am in it is in another order again.

SOME folders have this all messed up and assume its a image folder altough its not. It want to sort contents according to "last taken", "tags" etc...which doesnt make sense for folders containing DATA and programs.

* Sometimes my system shut-down takes a VERY, VERY, long time!

This is just a little "annoyances" list of things which i never had happen in XP - or at least not to that extent.

Just out of my head..i am sure if i sit down and dig i can come up with a lot more.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Aberforth
The problem with windows is people seem to take others word for granted without any personal perspective.

The problem with Windwos is that W always was and still is and always will be a very ineffective OS. STOP. I wont go there and say Linux is the best thing since sliced bread because i could rant WAY MORE in regards to Linux.

But its pointless since Win is established, so we have to accept it whether we like it or not.

Btw. in regards to "greedy companies"...i was (to say it mildly) a little upset upon the fact that Windows Vista Home Premium does not have the option to change the OS language. My GF is american, so a GERMAN Vista has not a lot of use to her since she doesnt speak a lot german

MS has the audacity then NOT just offer a language pack to download for people with Vista Home Premium WHICH THEY DEFINITLY COULD. Instead, the multilang feature is a Vista Ultimate exclusive!

So...i assumed it would be really, really cheap to upgrade to Ultimate since she already PAID for Home Premium. We only needed the additional option to change the german OS into an english one.

Out of curiosity i visited the MS site and saw that the UPGRADE ALONE from Home Basic would be $199 (!) and from Premium it would be $159. Mind you, this for people who already paid money for a Vista!

 

[Cl1ckm3]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Cl1ckm3
in 1 year of having XP, i reinstalled about 15 times. why? its slows down with age as everyone knows. very quickly i might add. it can range from gradual to immediate problems, even a simple reboot without you doing anything could result in a non-bootable OS or maybe something simple like a game suddenly wont run or an app will take longer to run or you suddenly run into cd burning errors...etc, the list never ends

You've got some serious hardware and/or malware issues if your performance deteriorates that rapidly. The only reason I've had to reinstall XP was due to hard drive replacement. Deteriorating performance was more of an issue with Windows 95/98, but I certainly don't see that problem now.

your own quote for another response applies for a response to what you just said in response to me..how strange is that?

countless Vista-related threads for a while now, and there seems to be a wide range of experiences.

however my response would be to point you to google and see how many users notice performance degregation in XP, but your own words say it best therefore defeating the purpose of what you originally told me of your own experience.