The Vista and DirectX10 Hype

[Aberforth]

And flexy, you got it all wrong. Do your research before you post something.

http://developer.nvidia.com/ob...10-instancing-gdc-2006
http://www.tomshardware.com/20...ect3d_10_is_all_about/
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa..._future_of_pc_gaming/1

 

[SunnyD]

There's obviously something wrong with your computator if you says Vista is running like crap. I've had Vista 64 on an AMD X2 at 2GHz with 4GB ram, and I am very pleased. The 8800GTS I have in there plays a lot of good stuff. And there's a lot more to DX10 than you have a clue about. First, DX10 features are just starting to be used, and will only get better as things mature. Sure, DX9 can look "as good" as a current DX10 title, but as I said, there's a lot more to it than that. Not to mention we're only in what - rev 1.5 of the DX10 generation of hardware?

 

[nerp]

I hope flexy doesn't fall off the face of the earth now that he's been challenged with some facts. I'd be interested to hear if he has gained any insight here or if he just responds with additional rambling and disconnected thoughts. It's interesting how one's perception of an issue can cloud their ability to think logically and systematically.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
There's obviously something wrong with your computator if you says Vista is running like crap. I've had Vista 64 on an AMD X2 at 2GHz with 4GB ram, and I am very pleased. The 8800GTS I have in there plays a lot of good stuff. And there's a lot more to DX10 than you have a clue about. First, DX10 features are just starting to be used, and will only get better as things mature. Sure, DX9 can look "as good" as a current DX10 title, but as I said, there's a lot more to it than that. Not to mention we're only in what - rev 1.5 of the DX10 generation of hardware?

I'm curious about this statement:

i tweasked a LOT and disabled many unneeded services. Its still slow and puts ANY high-end PC to shame.

It seems like many first-time Vista users panic when they see Vista's memory usage and start disabling services that may actually hurt their overall performance. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm curious to know what "tweaking" flexy did.

 

[apoppin]

What *bothers* me is this:

I am working with Vista 64 a long time already - starting when the first betas came out . . .

i call BS ... unless he has been completely *lost* in Vista for well over a YEAR!!! ... as it appears to be sadly the case right now.

He never asked any Vista questions as far as i remember; nor i did see any "help" questions and the sole purpose of this topic appears to be a "rant"
:thumbsdown:

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: MrChad
It seems like many first-time Vista users panic when they see Vista's memory usage and start disabling services that may actually hurt their overall performance. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm curious to know what "tweaking" flexy did.

That and most people that get turned off by Vista's performance are from the first day or two of use, which is when Vista runs its slowest before it has finished self tuning and learning usage patterns for Superfetch etc..

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Lock this up, the OP is clueless about Vista.

lolmao..."cute". Elaborate please

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
What *bothers* me is this:

I am working with Vista 64 a long time already - starting when the first betas came out . . .

i call BS ... unless he has been completely *lost* in Vista for well over a YEAR!!! ... as it appears to be sadly the case right now.

I had vista on the other PC on a second partition - this was still at a time when driver support was really, really "bad". Now i running retail V64bit ultimate. I will comment on the other statemens later.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: bsobel

I even turned off DWM/Aero since i was unable to change the ugly black task-bar (makes sense, right?) You can change a lot, but NOT the color of the task-bar.

Right click on desktop, properties. Window Color and Appearance. From that dialog I quote:

You can change the color of windows, the Start menu, and the task bar. Pick one of the available colors or create your own color using the color mixer.

Kinda hard to take you seriously when you can't even right click.

Bill

uh oh..i see this becoming a big rant-fest

a) you got it wrong!

If you click right on the DT it does not (as you state) "window color and appearance" - instead i have a menu "Personalize" which leads to the Control Center where you can find the option "Window Color and Appearance".

The taskbar can NOT be changed 100%, unless i am really, really dumb then i apologize!

The taskbar is transparent and always matches the currently set theme, you can indeed set a red, blue or whatever color theme, but why is it that (no matter what color i set) the taskbar is either black, dark gray, or drak brown. you can NOT set your taskbar to any color !

Thats also the reason that the only workaround is to have a custom background picture with a bright bar at the bottom. Since the taskbar is transparent this is a workaround to make the taskbar appear "brighter".

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Mem

The illusions, lies and deceptions by MS and how people fall for it.

Nothings stopping you from not buying VISTA or uninstalling it,as to lies deceptions etc..I'm not sure what you are talking about there ,anyway the internet is a powerful tool for finding info on a particular product so its very easy for you or any person to get the facts/info before buying a product etc....people are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You are really ranting for nothing as they say.

"to get the facts"

well i knew that vista will be slower than XP before i installed it. Whats your point?

 

[apoppin]

sure it can ... my TASKBAR is pretty in pink ...

i am on the default aero scheme with the "Start Search" .. to find "personalization" you would type P-e-r-s [until it comes up] into "start search" and it will narrow down your search. You will then click on "personalization" and then "Windows Color and Appearance" and finally "change the color ... of the Taskbar"

OR ...

1) Right click desktop
2) Click personalize
3) Click "Windows Color and Appearance"
4) Change the colors to your heart's desire (click "show color mixer" for more options)

and what you remain completely clueless about it that Vista 32 is AS FAST AS XP in gaming! ... and DX10 makes a HUGE difference if you got the rig

so what else if left for you to rant about?

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Mem

The illusions, lies and deceptions by MS and how people fall for it.

Nothings stopping you from not buying VISTA or uninstalling it,as to lies deceptions etc..I'm not sure what you are talking about there ,anyway the internet is a powerful tool for finding info on a particular product so its very easy for you or any person to get the facts/info before buying a product etc....people are not as stupid as you make them out to be.

You are really ranting for nothing as they say.

"to get the facts"

well i knew that vista will be slower than XP before i installed it. Whats your point?

My point is there's always a difference in performance etc between operating systems,lot of variables ,not to meantion the way Vista is designed to run etc....

Anybody can get some real feedback on the net or find some reviews,you seem to be ranting about Vista a lot,if you don't like the performance or Vista in general why use it?


I'm still waiting for those games you have problems with?

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: MrChad

I'm curious about this statement:

i tweasked a LOT and disabled many unneeded services. Its still slow and puts ANY high-end PC to shame.

It seems like many first-time Vista users panic when they see Vista's memory usage and start disabling services that may actually hurt their overall performance. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm curious to know what "tweaking" flexy did.

The most obvious, eg. Search indexing, QoS and other stuff where i know i wont need it.

Disabling services is not a matter of saving mem, this was an issue on an XP machine with 1GB ram..but with 4GB mem is (as said) not an issue.

However, i dont want windows indexing my files and working on my HD constantly, i certainly dont need PARENTAL CONTROLS, tablet-pc, wirless lan etc.
I am quite sure i know what i am doing in regards to disabling services. But this now is OFF TOPIC and actually has nothing to do with the topic, IMHO.

My gaming performance btw. is pretty good - but i am rather complaining about that Vista is a VERY sluggish and un-snappy OS (now even compared to XP) DESPITE what MS wants to tell us.

And the main point of my rant is how overhyped the "advantages" of DX10 (and therefore Vista) are.

If someone actually posts examples and says this is not the case in this and that game (as someone did)...its a GOOD thing. Someone posting this or that game actually looks amazon in DX10 compared to DX9. But still the majority of titles barely "support" DX10, and most of the time halfa$$ and very, very badly. This is the more surprising that (as i said) DX hardware is actually out for some time already!! BUT..also this would be OT and rather a rant against gaem developers and not Vista, i assume.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
sure it can ... my TASKBAR is pretty in pink ...

i am on the default aero scheme with the "Start Search" .. to find "personalization" you would type P-e-r-s [until it comes up] into "start search" and it will narrow down your search. You will then click on "personalization" and then "Windows Color and Appearance" and finally "change the color ... of the Taskbar"

OR ...

1) Right click desktop
2) Click personalize
3) Click "Windows Color and Appearance"
4) Change the colors to your heart's desire (click "show color mixer" for more options)

and what you remain completely clueless about it that Vista 32 is AS FAST AS XP in gaming! ... and DX10 makes a HUGE difference if you got the rig

so what else if left for you to rant about?

please do me a favor and post a screenshot of the "change color of taskbar" setting. I still state the color of the TB is linked to the overall theme and you can NOT adjust the taskbar color individually. PROVE ME WRONG and i apologize and admit my stupidity!

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: MrChad

I'm curious about this statement:

i tweasked a LOT and disabled many unneeded services. Its still slow and puts ANY high-end PC to shame.

It seems like many first-time Vista users panic when they see Vista's memory usage and start disabling services that may actually hurt their overall performance. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm curious to know what "tweaking" flexy did.

The most obvious, eg. Search indexing, QoS and other stuff where i know i wont need it.

Disabling services is not a matter of saving mem, this was an issue on an XP machine with 1GB ram..but with 4GB mem is (as said) not an issue.

However, i dont want windows indexing my files and working on my HD constantly, i certainly dont need PARENTAL CONTROLS, tablet-pc, wirless lan etc.
I am quite sure i know what i am doing in regards to disabling services. But this now is OFF TOPIC and actually has nothing to do with the topic, IMHO.

My gaming performance btw. is pretty good - but i am rather complaining about that Vista is a VERY sluggish and un-snappy OS (now even compared to XP) DESPITE what MS wants to tell us.

And the main point of my rant is how overhyped the "advantages" of DX10 (and therefore Vista) are.

If someone actually posts examples and says this is not the case in this and that game (as someone did)...its a GOOD thing. Someone posting this or that game actually looks amazon in DX10 compared to DX9. But still the majority of titles barely "support" DX10, and most of the time halfa$$ and very, very badly. This is the more surprising that (as i said) DX hardware is actually out for some time already!! BUT..also this would be OT and rather a rant against gaem developers and not Vista, i assume.

DX10 is only a minor improved feature of Vista at this time,most users here that own Vista did not buy Vista because of that,however if you are a gamer this will become more important with time as the DX technology and hardware progresses,as I have already stated it won't stop at DX10.

Gaming wise did you install latest DX9.0c(yes DX9.0c ) also did you disable Windows Defender real time scan( I set mine to scan once a week).FYI that's the only thing I have disabled on my Vista x64 and x86 systems,I game just fine even with my humble 3800+ x2 cpu and 7800GT card.

Memory with Vista has been covered 10000 times, we all know Vista puts your ram to good use rather then let it go wasted doing nothing.

 

[apoppin]

if you despise it so much or simply can't figure it out, then DUMP Vista and go back to XP !!
:roll:

You're blindly blundering around trying to make Vista INTO XP is wrecking it completely ...

NONE of us have your issues ... and disabling those very services destroy Vista's performance and security - you are like a bull in a china shop
. . . or Bush's first year in Iraq


You are also spreading silly FUD about DX10 in your complete ignorance of the matter

ridiculous

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Why are you running Vista?

Well, since you ask... Security.

If you hadn't noticed, the malware authors have gone professional. :evil:

Bingo!

Heh!

I was telling someone about Spybot S&D this morning - hadn't run it in a month or two...

I decided to update & run S&D while I was thinking about it.

SCREENY OF THE RESULTS

Pretty good, huh?

All I'm running in the background is Avast! and Windows Defender...

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: MrChad

i tweasked a LOT and disabled many unneeded services. Its still slow and puts ANY high-end PC to shame.

It seems like many first-time Vista users panic when they see Vista's memory usage and start disabling services that may actually hurt their overall performance. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm curious to know what "tweaking" flexy did.

Another thing that people don't generally get about Vista is that yes... it DOES run slower out of the box for about 2-3 weeks while it caches usage patterns particularly for SuperFetch. Not to mention, installing some updates, particularly SP1 clear the usage tables making this learning process start over. After about 2 weeks of general usage, most people will find that Vista runs pretty damn quick.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: apoppin
sure it can ... my TASKBAR is pretty in pink ...

i am on the default aero scheme with the "Start Search" .. to find "personalization" you would type P-e-r-s [until it comes up] into "start search" and it will narrow down your search. You will then click on "personalization" and then "Windows Color and Appearance" and finally "change the color ... of the Taskbar"

OR ...

1) Right click desktop
2) Click personalize
3) Click "Windows Color and Appearance"
4) Change the colors to your heart's desire (click "show color mixer" for more options)

and what you remain completely clueless about it that Vista 32 is AS FAST AS XP in gaming! ... and DX10 makes a HUGE difference if you got the rig

so what else if left for you to rant about?

please do me a favor and post a screenshot of the "change color of taskbar" setting. I still state the color of the TB is linked to the overall theme and you can NOT adjust the taskbar color individually. PROVE ME WRONG and i apologize and admit my stupidity!

geeze i am on dialup .. i will PROVE it after work .. i AM seeing PINK!

... it was blue to match my mood earlier
... can't you just follow instructions?



i gave you TWO ways to do it

and are you really that hung up on changing your taskbar's color to Prove Vista is inferior?
:roll:

 

[flexy]

>>>
DX10 is only a minor improved feature of Vista at this time,most users here that own Vista did not buy Vista because of that,however if you are a gamer this will become more important with time as the DX technology and hardware progresses,as I have already stated it won't stop at DX10.

Gaming wise did you install latest DX9.0c(yes DX9.0c ) also did you disable Windows Defender real time scan( I set mine to scan once a week).FYI that's the only thing I have disabled on my Vista x64 and x86 systems,I game just fine even with my humble 3800+ x2 cpu and 7800GT card.

Memory with Vista has been covered 10000 times, we all know Vista puts your ram to good use rather then let it go wasted doing nothing.
>>>


Mem,

i DO know about the "improvements" in Vista, starting with the rewritten TCP/IP stack, some filesystem and kernel level enhancements and features. too bad i cant really see/feel them working in "real life" with vista.

Yes Defender is disabled, i have NOD32 since this is a good anti virus scanner which i use for soem time already. I have the latest updates for DirectX. Gaming performance is NOT a problem as my 3dmarks and overall gaming performance shows.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
if you despise it so much or simply can't figure it out, then DUMP Vista and go back to XP !!
:roll:

You're blindly blundering around trying to make Vista INTO XP is wrecking it completely ...

NONE of us have your issues ... and disabling those very services destroy Vista's performance and security - you are like a bull in a china shop
. . . or Bush's first year in Iraq


You are also spreading silly FUD about DX10 in your complete ignorance of the matter

ridiculous

You say i am spreading FUD - while i am QUOTING head programmers admitting how their DX10 ports suck.

I could also quote some big guy/CEO from Valve saying basically that the time for DX10 is not ripe at all - respective RIGHT NOW there is nothing to it, despite what MS claims.

For me DX10 is *in fact* one major reason to have Vista64 bit. Otherwise i could run XP64 and it would probably be faster and smoother in any way.


ALSO: I listed Alan Wake as an example, a game i am VERY MUCH looking forward to since remedy writes great game engines as they prove with Max Payne.

There is no chance to jump off the Vista train because a) i want my 4GB be used =========> 64 bit
b) i want to be able this game =========> Vista

There is no fricking way around Vista 64 bit.

Sorry...this is a fact and you can think i am spreading FUD or whatever, i dont care

Also, please do me a favor and go out and read about current issues with Vista, i dont think i pulled that out of my *** just to ramble like an idiot about some made up fantasies since i dont have anything else to do.

In regards to security:

Look, just one example:

I have a NAT hardware firewall and i dont need windows firewall. So its disabled. Big deal. Same thing with countless other useles "security measures" which IMHO cause more pain than that they actually do any good. I dont need 6 requesters asking me and telling me "are you sure" and what a risk it is when i have Vista out of the box, untweaked and just want to visit a web site.
I dont even mention phishing filter and whatnot we all have now.

Add UAC and 64 bit signed driver enforcement you have INDEED a very "secure" OS..but certainly not a joy for a tweaker like i am

I am NOT saying that all those security measures are "bad" for the avg. user...but my personal opinion upon first glance of Vista was that this is what Vista is ALL ABOUT.....a giant pile of new security warnings and limitations and checks and security notifications.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: apoppin
sure it can ... my TASKBAR is pretty in pink ...

i am on the default aero scheme with the "Start Search" .. to find "personalization" you would type P-e-r-s [until it comes up] into "start search" and it will narrow down your search. You will then click on "personalization" and then "Windows Color and Appearance" and finally "change the color ... of the Taskbar"

OR ...

1) Right click desktop
2) Click personalize
3) Click "Windows Color and Appearance"
4) Change the colors to your heart's desire (click "show color mixer" for more options)

and what you remain completely clueless about it that Vista 32 is AS FAST AS XP in gaming! ... and DX10 makes a HUGE difference if you got the rig

so what else if left for you to rant about?

please do me a favor and post a screenshot of the "change color of taskbar" setting. I still state the color of the TB is linked to the overall theme and you can NOT adjust the taskbar color individually. PROVE ME WRONG and i apologize and admit my stupidity!

geeze i am on dialup .. i will PROVE it after work .. i AM seeing PINK!

... it was blue to match my mood earlier
... can't you just follow instructions?



i gave you TWO ways to do it

and are you really that hung up on changing your taskbar's color to Prove Vista is inferior?
:roll:

I dont want to make this the MAIN argument against Vista This would also be very ironic since i AM running V64 right here and just installed V32 on my GF's laptop 3 days ago.

Nevertheless i "had to" disable Aero since i didnt like the dark task bar and i did NOT see a way to change it. This is not my main argument...but certainly something which i dont understand. Its a very little detail, but i am picky

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
if you despise it so much or simply can't figure it out, then DUMP Vista and go back to XP !!
:roll:

You're blindly blundering around trying to make Vista INTO XP is wrecking it completely ...

NONE of us have your issues ... and disabling those very services destroy Vista's performance and security - you are like a bull in a china shop
. . . or Bush's first year in Iraq


You are also spreading silly FUD about DX10 in your complete ignorance of the matter

ridiculous

Apoppin,

which services would that be?

Mind you: I have ReadyBoost and Superfetch and similar ON and i dont think i disabled services which would "enhance performance".

I do however disable services where its known that there is action going on in the background at unwanted times - be it the index service, also i dont care for the windows search.

I can actually list what i disabled:

And..BTW...i DISABLED them to GAIN performance and not LOSE it

Internet Connection Sharing
IP Helper
Bluetooth stuff
iscsci
tcp port sharing
offline files
parental controls
pnp-x
PNRP
print spooler
remote registry
routing/remote
smart card stuff
snmp trap
table pc
defender
firewall
media center extender
search
http web proxy
wired autoconfig
wlan

as well as other unnecessary stuff, like QoS packet scheduling w/ TCP/IP.


Oh, just as one example: My GF was just complaining about performance on her brandnew pretty beefed up laptop.
I am checking and seeing Windows update getting some 180MB file, probably installing it right the very same time.
This is odd since her automatic updates were at default "3:00am" which wouldnt be a problem.

What i am saying, all those automatic things happening in the background surely wont contribute making a machine FASTER.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: flexy

>>>
DX10 is only a minor improved feature of Vista at this time,most users here that own Vista did not buy Vista because of that,however if you are a gamer this will become more important with time as the DX technology and hardware progresses,as I have already stated it won't stop at DX10.

Gaming wise did you install latest DX9.0c(yes DX9.0c ) also did you disable Windows Defender real time scan( I set mine to scan once a week).FYI that's the only thing I have disabled on my Vista x64 and x86 systems,I game just fine even with my humble 3800+ x2 cpu and 7800GT card.

Memory with Vista has been covered 10000 times, we all know Vista puts your ram to good use rather then let it go wasted doing nothing.
>>>


Mem,

i DO know about the "improvements" in Vista, starting with the rewritten TCP/IP stack, some filesystem and kernel level enhancements and features. too bad i cant really see/feel them working in "real life" with vista.

Yes Defender is disabled, i have NOD32 since this is a good anti virus scanner which i use for soem time already. I have the latest updates for DirectX. Gaming performance is NOT a problem as my 3dmarks and overall gaming performance shows.

Then I don't understand your rant to put it mildley.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: flexy
please do me a favor and post a screenshot of the "change color of taskbar" setting. I still state the color of the TB is linked to the overall theme and you can NOT adjust the taskbar color individually. PROVE ME WRONG and i apologize and admit my stupidity!

What you need to do is turn the color intensity up and the taskbar will take on more of the color you have chosen. I just changed mine to red and turned the color intensity up 3/4 of the way so that I still have transparency and the TB is red at the same time.

I can see why you are misinformed because the lower the color intensity, the more the TB looks like the original.