The Veterans Administration's guide to efficiency

[Newell Steamer]

Wait - NOW conservatards are concerned over VA hospitals?

Jesus guys, could you show some fucking respect and not use wounded soldiers to drive your political hate?

Because I doubt you are bring this up to solve their woes,.. just attack Obama. And, once the attacking is done, the soldiers go back to waiting for vital treatment. I doubt you would continue to cause a stink over this. Since it didn't seem to be an issue (you were vocal about) before Barry came along.

You make me sick.

 

[rudder]

Wait - NOW conservatards are concerned over VA hospitals?

Jesus guys, could you show some fucking respect and not use wounded soldiers to drive your political hate?

Because I doubt you are bring this up to solve their woes,.. just attack Obama. And, once the attacking is done, the soldiers go back to waiting for vital treatment. I doubt you would continue to cause a stink over this. Since it didn't seem to be an issue (you were vocal about) before Barry came along.

You make me sick.

What.... like the way you are bring up wounded soldiers to make a political point?

Personally I don't care who takes the blame for this problem... I would like to see it fixed. Why do so many leftist posters in this thread have absolutely zero issue with someone thinking it is okay to simply erase the problem. Had the one responsible taken a different route I would imagine there would be members of both parties taking heat over this. The quality of the VA has been an issue for quite some time.

Now, are there some type of MSNBC guidelines we can follow to avoid making you sick when people start new topics? Are we to only post about rainbows and unicorns? These allegations are incredulous and all you can do is cry and whine that the dear leader is being attacked?

Granted, I attacked the ACA as I see the quality of healthcare in this country headed in that direction... most would agree except for those whiny, dribbling leftists such as yourself.

 

[Bowfinger]

What.... like the way you are bring up wounded soldiers to make a political point?

Personally I don't care who takes the blame for this problem... I would like to see it fixed. Why do so many leftist posters in this thread have absolutely zero issue with someone thinking it is okay to simply erase the problem. Had the one responsible taken a different route I would imagine there would be members of both parties taking heat over this. The quality of the VA has been an issue for quite some time.

Now, are there some type of MSNBC guidelines we can follow to avoid making you sick when people start new topics? Are we to only post about rainbows and unicorns? These allegations are incredulous and all you can do is cry and whine that the dear leader is being attacked?

Granted, I attacked the ACA as I see the quality of healthcare in this country headed in that direction... most would agree except for those whiny, dribbling leftists such as yourself.

If you don't like the nature of the responses, perhaps you should omit the trolling next time. You tainted this thread with your very first sentence, and now you're crying because people are reacting to that instead of your purported intent. I don't see anyone suggesting what the VA did is OK, though many point out it is a predictable result of underfunding (something the righties seemed OK with when Bush was doing it). If you truly intended to keep the focus on the VA, next time leave out your empty, purely partisan speculation about "obamacare".

So, the VA is underfunded and consequently delivers poor service, at least in some areas. How much should we increase its budget to better serve our veterans?

 

[Newell Steamer]

What.... like the way you are bring up wounded soldiers to make a political point?

It's on topic - your topic.

I guess the only response you expected from me was joing the Obama bashing,.. off of some poor kid that lost his legs to an IED while serving his country.

Sorry, I am not some detatched creep troll.

Trolls look for suffering, so I am not THAT shocked you picked a wounded vet to make your "point" - but still, do you not respect anything? Not even someone who willingly put his/her life on the line?? Are soldiers nothing more than something to poke fun at liberals for you?

The solution is simple; take care of our soliders. Just as we throw billions to the gun and bomb makers, throw some the way of taking care of them after the war. I am not sure how and why the wounded are left in the lurch like this.

Taking their post war treatment, and making it look like its something new, for the purpose of criticising Obama, is weak and pretty fucked up. You honestly don't feel ashamed for using someone who served for his country to bash a politician?

And, worst of all, you would drop the VA's plight once Barry is gone. Only to bring it up as again, as something Obama created - not something that has been around for a very long time and needs to be addressed.

On that point, you just posted this,.. with out any solutionsm,.. but make it seem that I am at fault for not offering any solutions to this. You honestly don't see what you are doing is wrong (accusing someone of the very thing you are doing wrong) and fucked up as well (using wounded soldiers to bash a politician).

Do you have any shame??

 

[Anubis]

Somehow I have a bad feeling that this is the direction for healthcare in this country. Too many patients and not enough resources.

thats what happens when you pay doctors and health care workes like shit.

 

[rudder]

If you don't like the nature of the responses, perhaps you should omit the trolling next time. You tainted this thread with your very first sentence, and now you're crying because people are reacting to that instead of your purported intent. I don't see anyone suggesting what the VA did is OK, though many point out it is a predictable result of underfunding (something the righties seemed OK with when Bush was doing it). If you truly intended to keep the focus on the VA, next time leave out your empty, purely partisan speculation about "obamacare".

So, the VA is underfunded and consequently delivers poor service, at least in some areas. How much should we increase its budget to better serve our veterans?

Do you offer bipartisan mothering? I have some threads I need you to supervise.

 

[Bowfinger]

Do you offer bipartisan mothering? I have some threads I need you to supervise.

Grow up, child. You reap what you sow. You cry about how "leftists" aren't responding to your thread properly when you're the one who polluted it in the first place. I just held up the mirror (with apologies to Moonbeam). If you don't want to be called for your hypocrisy, don't be such a transparent hack.

Edit: I'll note you didn't answer my question, Mr. I Only Care About the Veterans, Leftists Are So Cruel -- So, the VA is underfunded and consequently delivers poor service, at least in some areas. How much should we increase its budget to better serve our veterans?

 

[rudder]

It's on topic - your topic.

I guess the only response you expected from me was joing the Obama bashing,.. off of some poor kid that lost his legs to an IED while serving his country.

Sorry, I am not some detatched creep troll.

Trolls look for suffering, so I am not THAT shocked you picked a wounded vet to make your "point" - but still, do you not respect anything? Not even someone who willingly put his/her life on the line?? Are soldiers nothing more than something to poke fun at liberals for you?

The solution is simple; take care of our soliders. Just as we throw billions to the gun and bomb makers, throw some the way of taking care of them after the war. I am not sure how and why the wounded are left in the lurch like this.

Taking their post war treatment, and making it look like its something new, for the purpose of criticising Obama, is weak and pretty fucked up. You honestly don't feel ashamed for using someone who served for his country to bash a politician?

And, worst of all, you would drop the VA's plight once Barry is gone. Only to bring it up as again, as something Obama created - not something that has been around for a very long time and needs to be addressed.

On that point, you just posted this,.. with out any solutionsm,.. but make it seem that I am at fault for not offering any solutions to this. You honestly don't see what you are doing is wrong (accusing someone of the very thing you are doing wrong) and fucked up as well (using wounded soldiers to bash a politician).

Do you have any shame??

Is there some leftist war room where folks like you come up with thread deflection strategies? You have got to be getting this soldier shame stuff from somewhere. So you need to tell your buddies in the war room that the aside they came up with is not relevant because there is not any mention of veterans other than the ones who had their records deleted and the worker who is continuing his lawsuit with new evidence.

Now living in a state that has offered a program since the 90's to help the poor and un-insurability with health insurance I see parallels with The ACA. With our state's program, the quality of care has been degraded as the state has struggled against rising costs for the program. This has led to healthcare rationing and reduced reimbursements for providers. We can observe the same thing with Medicare. So my mention of the ACA in response to this behavior by the VA is certainly valid.

So I kind of feel bad that you cannot comprehend this... But there is not much more I can say to help you. I will just ignore your future lame attempts at trying to deflect with the shame card.

Solutions? The DoD budget is getting cut. How about cuts a failed expensive weapons project instead of cutting services to active duty personnel and veterans. This is something that is the responsibility of the Obama administration and both parties in congress.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I will just ignore your future lame attempts at trying to deflect with the shame card.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-and-sadists-psychologists-claim-9134396.html

Not that I needed this study verfied,.. but, it IS true.

 

[LunarRay]

Look at medicare. The government is continually cutting reimbursement rates to healthcare providers. Doctors are losing money seeing medicare patients. An ever growing number of doctors won't take new medicare patients because they cannot afford to. It is the same issue as the VA. To many needs and not enough resources to fill those needs.

There seems to be a direct correlation between the VA patient base and War. IF that is true then the real cost of war should include burying the folks who fought and died, healing the folks who fought and didn't die but were wounded or have service connected health issues and providing for the families of both in a manner consistent with the moral obligation to do so.

There are plenty of resources to make the VA be what it was designed to be... Those resources are in the pockets of those who enriched themselves or benefitted in some manner from the direct contribution made by those now seeking the promises made. And, it seems to me that every person in this country benefitted and many continue to demand further war efforts but they are lacking in closing the circle those war efforts create.... IF we can't afford to war then change that agenda.

 

[rudder]

Grow up, child. You reap what you sow. You cry about how "leftists" aren't responding to your thread properly when you're the one who polluted it in the first place. I just held up the mirror (with apologies to Moonbeam). If you don't want to be called for your hypocrisy, don't be such a transparent hack.

Edit: I'll note you didn't answer my question, Mr. I Only Care About the Veterans, Leftists Are So Cruel -- So, the VA is underfunded and consequently delivers poor service, at least in some areas. How much should we increase its budget to better serve our veterans?

Rather than cut and paste just read the reply to steamer boy. It applies to you just the same.

 

[Bowfinger]

Rather than cut and paste just read the reply to steamer boy. It applies to you just the same.

I'm glad you saved the bandwidth since it really has nothing to do with my posts.

So, when you said, "Personally I don't care who takes the blame for this problem... I would like to see it fixed.", were you lying? Because it sure seems to me that blame is really all you care about here. I'll point out for the third time that although you only want to see this fixed , you still won't answer a simple question about raising the VA budget. Interesting that you refuse to engage in discussion about the topic you claim is so important. My judgment therefore remains: you are a partisan hypocrite.

 

[Newell Steamer]

,.. it really has nothing to do with my posts.

Why - that sounds like is rudder deflecting,...

 

[Mursilis]

The solution is simple; take care of our soliders. Just as we throw billions to the gun and bomb makers, throw some the way of taking care of them after the war. I am not sure how and why the wounded are left in the lurch like this.

That people think the solution is "simple" is part of the problem - it's hardly just the "wounded" driving up VA costs. The VA serves as a healthcare system of last resort for a lot of low-income people who happen to be veterans, and that's only going to cost more money as the veteran population ages (along with the general population).

And while I'd agree that we, as a nation, have a moral obligation to take care of those injured in the line of duty or the families of those killed, I don't know if we can, or should, offer free healthcare for life for every veteran. Not every veteran ever comes in harm's way. Both my parents served on active duty during Vietnam, but like many others, they never left the US. Both served in the medical field in MOS's which were almost exactly like what civilians were doing in civilian hospitals in the same city. It was important work, but it was hardly dangerous. They got paid, of course, and when they got out, they got VA home loans and my father is buried in a VA cemetary. Compare that to something like John McCain's 5+ harrowing years as POW. Not all vets are the same.

 

[rudder]

I'm glad you saved the bandwidth since it really has nothing to do with my posts.

So, when you said, "Personally I don't care who takes the blame for this problem... I would like to see it fixed.", were you lying? Because it sure seems to me that blame is really all you care about here. I'll point out for the third time that although you only want to see this fixed , you still won't answer a simple question about raising the VA budget. Interesting that you refuse to engage in discussion about the topic you claim is so important. My judgment therefore remains: you are a partisan hypocrite.

Well if you had read it..... Solutions? The DoD budget is getting cut. How about cuts to a failed expensive weapons project instead of cutting services to active duty personnel and veterans. This is something that is the responsibility of the Obama administration and both parties in congress.

Sure the VA needs more money. How much? who can answer that without looking at expenditures, projections, number of patients, budget allocations within the VA, etc., etc. I would rather not simply pull a number out of my ass to make you happy.

Personally I would rather the U.S. reduce the number of overseas bases, cut back on the f-35 project, stop making C17's and abrams tanks for a bit and have more than enough money in the budget to allocate to current medical needs of our veterans. The current round of DoD budget cuts will hurt active duty, their families, and veterans. Piss on the republicans, democrats (yeh I went there and yes it is a disparaging remark about the party of truth, love, rainbows ,unicorns, and all that is holy), and the Obama white house for letting it happen.

 

[Bowfinger]

Well if you had read it..... Solutions? The DoD budget is getting cut. How about cuts to a failed expensive weapons project instead of cutting services to active duty personnel and veterans. This is something that is the responsibility of the Obama administration and both parties in congress.

Sure the VA needs more money. How much? who can answer that without looking at expenditures, projections, number of patients, budget allocations within the VA, etc., etc. I would rather not simply pull a number out of my ass to make you happy.

Personally I would rather the U.S. reduce the number of overseas bases, cut back on the f-35 project, stop making C17's and abrams tanks for a bit and have more than enough money in the budget to allocate to current medical needs of our veterans. The current round of DoD budget cuts will hurt active duty, their families, and veterans. Piss on the republicans, democrats (yeh I went there and yes it is a disparaging remark about the party of truth, love, rainbows ,unicorns, and all that is holy),

Thanks. That's what I was asking. I wasn't asking that you pull a number out of your ass, but instead offer something on topic, much like that. To summarize, you agree the VA is underfunded, you offer suggestions on what to cut to pay for it, but you don't know what it would cost to fix it. That's a fair answer. And I do agree, regardless of how we got there, it's the Obama administration and current Congress that can fix it (or at least begin fixing it).

and the Obama white house for letting it happen.

That is not a reasonable statement given that the example you cite dates back to at least 2001. Though Obama may have (just) taken office by the time VA employees actually started hitting the <Delete> key (March, 2009, apparently), it's absurd to suggest he was in a position to have allowed it, or even to be aware of it. What would be most interesting is more current information, to understand how things have either improved or further declined at the VA since 2009.

 

[werepossum]

There seems to be a direct correlation between the VA patient base and War. IF that is true then the real cost of war should include burying the folks who fought and died, healing the folks who fought and didn't die but were wounded or have service connected health issues and providing for the families of both in a manner consistent with the moral obligation to do so.

There are plenty of resources to make the VA be what it was designed to be... Those resources are in the pockets of those who enriched themselves or benefitted in some manner from the direct contribution made by those now seeking the promises made. And, it seems to me that every person in this country benefitted and many continue to demand further war efforts but they are lacking in closing the circle those war efforts create.... IF we can't afford to war then change that agenda.

This is why EVERY war and military action needs to be funded solely by a separate surtax on everybody. Every salary and stock exchange gets a cut, every government benefit check gets a cut. Right now military action affects a very small number of people, but when a country goes to war the whole country needs to participate. If it's not important enough for every one of us to feel a little pain, then it's not important enough to do. If you can't sell the American people on paying for it, then you shouldn't do it.

 

[werepossum]

That people think the solution is "simple" is part of the problem - it's hardly just the "wounded" driving up VA costs. The VA serves as a healthcare system of last resort for a lot of low-income people who happen to be veterans, and that's only going to cost more money as the veteran population ages (along with the general population).

And while I'd agree that we, as a nation, have a moral obligation to take care of those injured in the line of duty or the families of those killed, I don't know if we can, or should, offer free healthcare for life for every veteran. Not every veteran ever comes in harm's way. Both my parents served on active duty during Vietnam, but like many others, they never left the US. Both served in the medical field in MOS's which were almost exactly like what civilians were doing in civilian hospitals in the same city. It was important work, but it was hardly dangerous. They got paid, of course, and when they got out, they got VA home loans and my father is buried in a VA cemetary. Compare that to something like John McCain's 5+ harrowing years as POW. Not all vets are the same.

That is a valid point, but while not all the military fight, all are at risk for being deployed into a war zone. Even the most desk-bound MOS faces a real risk of being sent to places like Afghanistan where they become the soft underbelly the terrorists most want to hit.

 

[shortylickens]

I wasn't with him for his initial visits only to visit him after his surgeries. His mother and I were present when he fractured his femur. We heard the bone crack as he slammed into the dock after waiting too long to let go of a swing rope over the water.

He waited three weeks before going to the VA which was stupid, but he'd been there before for other issues and knew their drill. When he went he was in horrific pain and they told him that there was nothing wrong with his leg, that he was just looking for pain meds to abuse. No x-ray needed.

On his second visit, his thigh had started turning colors and the skin would stay dimpled when pressed. They would not even look at his leg. The diagnosis was somebody looking for pain meds. More Motrin and get the hell out.

Third visit he got loud, real loud and they relented and did an x-ray.

I guess we can call it incompetence, laziness, apathy, anger, frustration or whatever label we want, but for certain it was not what anyone would term practicing medicine.

Ahhhh, they accused him of faking, now I see.
Of course they could have just been saying that cuz they didnt feel like seeing him, or there was an unofficial instruction to turn people away so they could cut costs.
I dunno, but that sounds a lot like the DC hospital. Except there all they do is give prescriptions and send people home. No real medicine, you gotta visit multiple times to see a doctor and get xrays and shit. But they do pass out painkillers.

 

[Mursilis]

This is why EVERY war and military action needs to be funded solely by a separate surtax on everybody. Every salary and stock exchange gets a cut, every government benefit check gets a cut. Right now military action affects a very small number of people, but when a country goes to war the whole country needs to participate. If it's not important enough for every one of us to feel a little pain, then it's not important enough to do. If you can't sell the American people on paying for it, then you shouldn't do it.

Solid point. A special "war" tax might mean a lot fewer military adventures, and that's fine by me.

[sarcasm]"But I put a yellow ribbon magnet on my car! I AM participating!!"[/sarcasm]

That is a valid point, but while not all the military fight, all are at risk for being deployed into a war zone. Even the most desk-bound MOS faces a real risk of being sent to places like Afghanistan where they become the soft underbelly the terrorists most want to hit.

"At real risk", while certainly very true, doesn't sway me that much. During the first Gulf War (Desert Shield/Storm), I was in an Army Reserve medical unit. We never got called up, although some volunteered to serve as 'fill-ins' in other units called up, and thus a couple of people from my unit went to Saudi. My MOS wasn't needed and I was in school at the time, so I did not go on active duty or leave the US. There was certainly a very real risk I could've been activated if that conflict had gone on longer, but we all know now how the ground war turned out. I was housed, fed, and paid for the time I did put in, and aside from getting yelled out occasionally and waking up way too early for a college student (hardly real hardships at all), none of it was difficult. I later got out early due to a shoulder injury (completely unrelated to service), and my unit was very happy to see me go and not have to pay a big enlistment bonus I was due if I'd finished my term. For all of that, I don't think my country owes me a thing, and I've never asked the VA for any sort of benefit. I have met and work with vets who are far more deserving.

 

[etrigan420]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...e-victim-of-election-year-gridlock/?hpt=hp_t2

Holy shit, this was proposed by a goddamned SOCIALIST (insert heavy dose of sarcasm), and shot down by the two parties who actually *claim to care about veterans*?

Certain senators tried to tie Iran sanctions to a bill aimed at assisting veterans???

Is everybody taking crazy pills????

Can I use more question marks??????

 

[shortylickens]

Attach a ride that does nothing, get bill killed.

Good job congress, you evil selfish sons of bitches.