The Truth About Engineering?

[TuxDave]

Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: LordFortius
FWIW, this is a followup post by the OP:

**************************************************************************************
I have no illusions that I will change the mind of people already in the program. As you say, denial runs deep. Cialdini wrote in his excellent book 'The Psychology of Influence', "... our nearly obsessive desire to be (and to appear) consistent with what we have already done. Once we have made a choice or taken a stand, we will encounter personal and interpersonal pressures to behave consistently with that commitment. Those pressures will cause us to respond in ways that justify our earlier decision.?

My hopes are to reach the students on this board who are *considering* engineering but haven't yet committed. I myself am an EE who has worked for hi-tech companies, mostly household names, in the Bay area for over a decade. Of course on an anonymous board nobody can verify that, and I want to keep my anonymity. But they CAN go out and talk to real engineers and see what I'm saying is true, they can follow the links and read the stories for themselves.

And what you say about offshoring is true; just see the BusinessWeek article called "Look Who's Going Offshore : Tech startups are heading overseas even more eagerly than multinationals" at http://www.businessweek.com/ma..._20/b3883090_mz063.htm for one example discussing the trend.

However I will quibble with you on one point. You write "there is still a need for, and there will be jobs for, highly educated (grad degrees), creative "architect" engineers". This is true today but won't be true in 15 or 20 years. The experienced designers are here in the US and there are few overseas today, but given 2 decades of experience my bet is that there will be a sufficient supply of them abroad as well. Many MS and PhD's in engineering are going to foreign-born engineers, and eventually they can take over that role (and many will choose to return home where the standard of living at even 1/3 the pay is head and shoulders above what they can get in the Bay area with its $500K starter homes).
**************************************************************************************

15 or 20 years of assured employment? HOORAH!

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

Finishing M.S. degree with a job offer to Intel.... and?
My sister finished her M.S. degree 6 months ago and is working at Lawrence Lab at MIT
My brother finished his M.S. degree 6 years ago and went from HP to Intel to RAMBUS

So what is your point? Yeah.. thought so.. so STFU

 

[Skiguy411]

ok....well I have always wanted to be an engineer, but alas I am not at the top of my class. (3.78 GPA) What is there for a guy who loves to work with/on computers but isnt exactly gifted?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

Well for many majors that would involve a promotion over at Taco Bell.

 

[Fenixgoon]

7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal

100% lies.
7--- as a government engineer, you can get into some nice 6 figure salaries. both of my brother's (one aerospace, other computer) have well-paying jobs, as well as job security. they are 22 and 25, respectively

8--- government engineering positions offer incredible job security.

10-- i think my dad, engineer of 30+ years, has done pretty damn well working for the navy as an aerospace engineer.


<jumps into flamesuit> screw liberal arts... that's pvssying out. no offense to liberal arts people really. just that the majority of engineering classes will be infinitely harder than any LA class

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

Finishing M.S. degree with a job offer to Intel.... and?
My sister finished her M.S. degree 6 months ago and is working at Lawrence Lab at MIT
My brother finished his M.S. degree 6 years ago and went from HP to Intel to RAMBUS

So what is your point? Yeah.. thought so.. so STFU

My point is you have no career.

It hasn't even started. You are a student.

You have no career. Post back when you have one.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

Finishing M.S. degree with a job offer to Intel.... and?
My sister finished her M.S. degree 6 months ago and is working at Lawrence Lab at MIT
My brother finished his M.S. degree 6 years ago and went from HP to Intel to RAMBUS

So what is your point? Yeah.. thought so.. so STFU

My point is you have no career.

It hasn't even started. You are a student.

You have no career. Post back when you have one.

You idiot... the fact that my siblings are working engineers and they have no complaints isn't enough evidence? Also, the fact that have finished internships, employed by the University to do research for DARPA and finally have a job offer to an industrial company isn't enough? Maybe you're just pissed off because I'm still liking what I decided to major in. Well piss off.

:roll:

 

[Beller0ph1]

Heh...keep this up and you're just ensuring that we will have our jobs for a good long time. Keep turning new kids away from engineering and employers will only have the experienced ones to look to. I am a senior Chemical Enginner at UW-Madison, the number 3 party school in the nation. #1 is complete BS. We work hard, but we party harder. We have a good percentage of women in our program, more than say ECE definately. I have taken Band every semester, and managed to squeeze in Latin, History, Geography, and Anthropolgy in my career. Along with the requisite classes. I am rather outgoing, have plenty of friends, both engineers and non-engineers.

Everyone has to worry about job security. Promotions come with the person. If you are not good at working with people, you will probably be overlooked for a management position. Unfortunately, that is the case with they stereotypical engineer.

Starting salary is a big plus, ChE's are the highest paid position with a BS right out of school. All that hard work pays off.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Beller0ph1
Heh...keep this up and you're just ensuring that we will have our jobs for a good long time. Keep turning new kids away from engineering and employers will only have the experienced ones to look to. I am a senior Chemical Enginner at UW-Madison, the number 3 party school in the nation. #1 is complete BS. We work hard, but we party harder. We have a good percentage of women in our program, more than say ECE definately. I have taken Band every semester, and managed to squeeze in Latin, History, Geography, and Anthropolgy in my career. Along with the requisite classes. I am rather outgoing, have plenty of friends, both engineers and non-engineers.

Everyone has to worry about job security. Promotions come with the person. If you are not good at working with people, you will probably be overlooked for a management position. Unfortunately, that is the case with they stereotypical engineer.

Starting salary is a big plus, ChE's are the highest paid position with a BS right out of school. All that hard work pays off.

i think a lot of the engineering professions are very close in first year pay. but he's right about job security.

at my school , ucla i had been told by a friend whose a programmer for the engineering school now, that computer science enrollments were down something like 70% since the days when we enrolled back in the 1999 , omg everyone is making bank doing computer stuff days.

since i actually like what i'm doing, i figure in 2-3 years there could be a shortage. or at least ill have a job. assuming india doesnt take over the world (which it wont, btw there are only so many skilled engineers there a lot of them really arent quite up to par)

 

[MuffD]

As an engineer
1) you will miss out on a lot of fun in college, forsaking some of the best years of your life.
2) you will miss the best chance you'll have to enrich your mind in a variety of academic areas
3) you will be limited to working in a few major cities.
4) the hours will be excessively long
5) you will be surrounded primarily be men at work
6) many if not most of your coworkers are going to be foreigners
7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
9) you're NOT going to get into management
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal

1. True but that's okay. You can party later.

2. Who cares.

3. I guess this can be true. I'm in San Diego so I really haven't given much though about going to other cities since I've been here all my life and there are plenty of Engineering opportunities around. It also pays to keep in touch with former coworkers for the sake of networking.

4. This can be true too. Usually I don't put in more than 8 hours a day but currently I'm working on a project that needs to get done before October and I have been putting in an extra hour or two everyday.

5. There are 35% women in my department but I also have to add I have been lucky to work with 6 hot engineer chicks. This is something usually unheard of in Engineering.

6. True but you get used to it.

7. I don't know if your salary will ever be equivelant to liberal arts majors but engineering definitely pays good.

8. Somewhat true.

9. I don't really care to get into management so I can't really comment on this one. They work way too hard. I wouldn't have enough time for FW or AT hot deals.

10. It's okay.

 

[Analog]

I agree with most everything said. I am a professor of EE, and I think this list misses one key point. I'm happy with my profession, I love engineering. Why would I want to do something I don't love to do?

Think about that.

 

[Prfstrkr]

Originally posted by: cchen
this article is stupid... sounds like it was written by a bitter engineer who got shafted

nah. Sounds more like one of those dummies who simply could not handle Math, Physics, or any type of science.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Prfstrkr

Originally posted by: cchen
this article is stupid... sounds like it was written by a bitter engineer who got shafted

nah. Sounds more like one of those dummies who simply could not handle Math, Physics, or any type of science.

It's not about intelligence. It's about commitment.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: cchen
this article is stupid... sounds like it was written by a bitter engineer who got shafted

Exactly. When I started reading, I was afraid that this article would scare me into confronting my worst fears, that I have made the wrong career choice, that I am doomed to eternal failure. But after reading it, it just sounds like another scornful business school enlistee (I.E. an engineering school dropout).

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Seems like the author has more beef against the growing technological strength of foriegn countries more than anything else. First he says that working with foriegn engineers is a negative aspect. Now he's telling us to give up engineering since other countries are making progress. Maybe his job was outsourced? Maybe he just got obsolete because he was too lazy to keep himself informed.

On my own take of this, I am an engineer, and it's hard work. But I really take pride in what I get to do. There is a saying in engineering "A Scientist can tell you what is or is not, an Engineer can make that which was not there before" That is what I want to do, I want to contribute and raise the standard of living in any way possible.

that's all rosey and great.

post back when your career is in swing.

:roll:

 

[loup garou]

The truth about engineering.

 

[cronos]

Originally posted by: werk
The truth about engineering.

:laugh:

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Originally posted by: werk
The truth about engineering.

Hahah, make one for programmers. "Sex can wait... indefinitely" =(

 

[QueHuong]

I agree with some aspects of what he said, such as the point about many engineering fields will not be growing as fast, notably computer engineering and computer science (don't really consider it engineering, but I'll do so for the purpose of this thread) because of foreign competition. That was why I switched from Electrical Engineering to Biomedical Engineering before I enrolled. For the next couple of decades, the US will be the leader in biotechnology and careers in the health field are growing, so I'm not worried.

However, there's that salary cap that I don't like very much. But one aspect the author left out is that engineering is a very versatile degree - one book I've read says that many managers consider a BS in engineering equivalent to a master's in another field - this book is a pre-med book that was suggesting possible majors for the prospective students, so it's not likely to be biased. And I'd agree: engineering is difficult, and many people will recognize it.

 

[Crappopotamus]

<-systems engineer. yeah liberal engineering im looking at getting into management/business/finance anyways from engineering. i have no intention of being an engineer for life. and i am a minority (albeit a soap using, deoderant wearing one). a lot of his points arent valid for me...

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: LordFortius
As an engineer
1) you will miss out on a lot of fun in college, forsaking some of the best years of your life.
2) you will miss the best chance you'll have to enrich your mind in a variety of academic areas
3) you will be limited to working in a few major cities.
4) the hours will be excessively long
5) you will be surrounded primarily be men at work
6) many if not most of your coworkers are going to be foreigners
7) your salary will top out early and those liberal-arts majors will catch and pass you
8) by the time you're in your 30's you will be worried about keeping a job
9) you're NOT going to get into management
10) the long-term outlook for engineers is dismal

1) false
2) true. I'm 27 andjust now starting to appreciate "art". (jazz, plays, etc)
3) not sure wher ethat came from
4) ahhaaha, matters on employer I guess. Probably a 50/50 split there.
5) yup
6) 50% (fairly accurate)
7) not sure how lib-arts people make more but as a profession, we are the most shat upon profession. cash/difficulty ration is horrible. Know a guy that quit engieneringto be a lawyer. He says law is a joke compared to engineering and that hte schooling for law is ten times easier.
8) Somewhat worried. More along the lines of being totally dis-illusioned.
9) false. You can build your a career however you want. You decide your fate!
10) matters how you look at it.

The end

 

[Goosemaster]

IT'S SUCH AN OLD TOPIC LET IT DIEEEEEEEEE