the truth about abortion

[Agman]

I did list my reasons. Abortion = murder because your killing a living breathing human being. Therefore, since murder = wrong. Abortion is wrong. Is that simple enough for you?? Or is it THAT hard to understand? Religious reasons? Same thing, in the Bible it says we shall not commit murder. And our constitution you'll be amazed it says the same thing as well!

*edit: this was in response to judasmachine*

 

[TheBDB]

Regardless of my position on abortion, just because those pictures are not pleasant doesn't mean I should let that influence my decision.

 

[zendari]

Do you think some tramp who doesnt want the inconvenience of a kid cares about pictures like these?

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Agman
human being

why do you think this?

 

[shadow9d9]

People for abortion are usually for abortions prior to 9-12 weeks age...

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Agman
Same thing, in the Bible it says we shall not commit murder.

I believe that the bible also says that an infant doesn't have a soul until it takes its first breath

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Agman
Don't think that I'm saying ALL abortions are wrong, since I do know that sometimes medical conditions demand an abortion and I have to no problem with that since the mother is in danger of death. But these types of abortions are only 1% out of all of them! The rest are for other reasons like rape, or just because the woman does not want to have a child.

That's the problem. The anti-abortion crowd says "all or nothing". So guess what? We get all abortions being legal. If they simply allowed a settlement in the middle, we could easilly pass laws outlawing all abortions but that 1%. But, the anti-abortionists won't let that and they get what we have now: legal abortions in virtually all cases.

 

[Agman]

No I don't think they do. Which is the problem. They should care.

Just because they don't care does not mean that they shouldn't.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Agman
Don't think that I'm saying ALL abortions are wrong, since I do know that sometimes medical conditions demand an abortion and I have to no problem with that since the mother is in danger of death. But these types of abortions are only 1% out of all of them! The rest are for other reasons like rape, or just because the woman does not want to have a child.

That's the problem. The anti-abortion crowd says "all or nothing". So guess what? We get all abortions being legal. If they simply allowed a settlement in the middle, we could easilly pass laws outlawing all abortions but that 1%. But, the anti-abortionists won't let that and they get what we have now: legal abortions in virtually all cases.

That's not true at all, except for maybe a small wing of the antiabortion crowd.

There are plenty of laws restricting abortions that keep getting tossed out by courts (PBA ban, etc).

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Cyclowizard in 3...2...1...

Asshat troll in... Oh, you made it here before I did and didn't contribute anything. Shocker!

Originally posted by: BrownTown
that one at the end looks a little to developed to be before the age at which fetuses can be legally aborted.

There is no legal limit to the age at which a fetus can be aborted in the US.

I am pretty sure Darkhawk28 was just kidding, and I am also pretty sure abortion laws vairy state to state reguarding the age and/or circumstances a fetus can be aborted.

I am extremely skeptical that most of that footage is of 1st trimester abortions. Why do they call it abort73 anyhow?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Agman
Don't think that I'm saying ALL abortions are wrong, since I do know that sometimes medical conditions demand an abortion and I have to no problem with that since the mother is in danger of death. But these types of abortions are only 1% out of all of them! The rest are for other reasons like rape, or just because the woman does not want to have a child.

That's the problem. The anti-abortion crowd says "all or nothing". So guess what? We get all abortions being legal. If they simply allowed a settlement in the middle, we could easilly pass laws outlawing all abortions but that 1%. But, the anti-abortionists won't let that and they get what we have now: legal abortions in virtually all cases.

At this point I would be happy with 3rd trimester abortions being illegal. You have to be a diehard heartless bastid to think partial birth abortion is in anyway humane.

 

[Agman]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Agman
Don't think that I'm saying ALL abortions are wrong, since I do know that sometimes medical conditions demand an abortion and I have to no problem with that since the mother is in danger of death. But these types of abortions are only 1% out of all of them! The rest are for other reasons like rape, or just because the woman does not want to have a child.

That's the problem. The anti-abortion crowd says "all or nothing". So guess what? We get all abortions being legal. If they simply allowed a settlement in the middle, we could easilly pass laws outlawing all abortions but that 1%. But, the anti-abortionists won't let that and they get what we have now: legal abortions in virtually all cases.

Yes , I agree

But as you can see I'm not one of those people. I do recognize that abortions are needed sometimes for medical reasons that threathen or could threathen the mother's life. I know this because in my family it has happend a few times.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Cyclowizard in 3...2...1...

Asshat troll in... Oh, you made it here before I did and didn't contribute anything. Shocker!

Originally posted by: BrownTown
that one at the end looks a little to developed to be before the age at which fetuses can be legally aborted.

There is no legal limit to the age at which a fetus can be aborted in the US.

I am pretty sure Darkhawk28 was just kidding, and I am also pretty sure abortion laws vairy state to state reguarding the age and/or circumstances a fetus can be aborted.

I am extremely skeptical that most of that footage is of 1st trimester abortions. Why do they call it abort73 anyhow?

73 days into pregnancy, perhaps.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Genx87
At this point I would be happy with 3rd trimester abortions being illegal. You have to be a diehard heartless bastid to think partial birth abortion is in anyway humane.

hey, common ground :thumbsup:

I think that being pro-late term abortions represents a pretty extremeist view.

 

[Agman]

The thing is that even though not all anti abortion people might be "all or nothing". The extreme ones are the ones that tend to always speak up and make the most noise hence giving the people the wrong impression of the anti-abortion group.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Agman
Yes , I agree

But as you can see I'm not one of those people. I do recognize that abortions are needed sometimes for medical reasons that threathen or could threathen the mother's life. I know this because in my family it has happend a few times.

I am one of those "abortions only in the case of emergency" people. How can we get the firm "no abortions in any case" people to give a little. If only they'd give a little, we could end so many abortions.

The thing is that even though not all anti abortion people might be "all or nothing". The extreme ones are the ones that tend to always speak up and make the most noise hence giving the people the wrong impression of the anti-abortion group.

I don't think I've ever seen a "pro-life, except..." bumper sticker. Thus, I feel most of the fighters are the "all or nothing" group. I could certainly be wrong though.

 

[dannybin1742]

agman needs to go back to kansas

the whole point is thats its a woman's body and its her right to chose, are you carrying the child genX or agman? no

before you go spouting about killing babies, why don't you do somthing productive and give a home to all those children who are in orphanages who are unwanted, once you solve that problem then come back and try and save the babies

in other words its a womens issue debated by men

 

[CellarDoor]

Originally posted by: Agman
Don't think that I'm saying ALL abortions are wrong, since I do know that sometimes medical conditions demand an abortion and I have to no problem with that since the mother is in danger of death. But these types of abortions are only 1% out of all of them! The rest are for other reasons like rape, or just because the woman does not want to have a child.

I respect this opinion, but I do have a question. How can you be of the opinion that abortion=murder=wrong but then also say in some circumstances it should be ok? While I wouldn't equate abortion to murder myself, IMO, if you really do believe that this is murder and that it is wrong, shouldn't you be against all abortions? I disagree with that point of view, but I understand it. So my question is, is it not considered murder as long as the person getting the abortion has a health risk?

Also, in response to the pictures, I'd say that if abortions were illegal, the pictures of them getting abortions anyways (they surely would) would probably be much more disgusting.

So I would say this. I agree with the sentiments about the "all-or-nothing" group, but I also understand them. If they really believe abortion is murder then they shouldn't allow abortion. However, that's not my opinion.

 

[Agman]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Agman
Yes , I agree

But as you can see I'm not one of those people. I do recognize that abortions are needed sometimes for medical reasons that threathen or could threathen the mother's life. I know this because in my family it has happend a few times.

I am one of those "abortions only in the case of emergency" people. How can we get the firm "no abortions in any case" people to give a little. If only they'd give a little, we could end so many abortions.

The thing is that even though not all anti abortion people might be "all or nothing". The extreme ones are the ones that tend to always speak up and make the most noise hence giving the people the wrong impression of the anti-abortion group.

I don't think I've ever seen a "pro-life, except..." bumper sticker. Thus, I feel most of the fighters are the "all or nothing" group. I could certainly be wrong though.

Well like I said, the extreme ones are usually the ones that speak out. Hence why you do not see the other kind of bumper sticker.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Agman
Yes , I agree

But as you can see I'm not one of those people. I do recognize that abortions are needed sometimes for medical reasons that threathen or could threathen the mother's life. I know this because in my family it has happend a few times.

I am one of those "abortions only in the case of emergency" people. How can we get the firm "no abortions in any case" people to give a little. If only they'd give a little, we could end so many abortions.

The thing is that even though not all anti abortion people might be "all or nothing". The extreme ones are the ones that tend to always speak up and make the most noise hence giving the people the wrong impression of the anti-abortion group.

I don't think I've ever seen a "pro-life, except..." bumper sticker. Thus, I feel most of the fighters are the "all or nothing" group. I could certainly be wrong though.

Logically, such middle ground does not exist. Either the fetus is a person at a given stage of development or it isn't. Allowing abortions after the onset of 'personhood' is clearly unconstitutional, while allowing before it is perfectly constitutional. Therefore, we need only define where this onset occurs and all of the controversy and confusion will be cleared up. Good luck defining this point though.

 

[Agman]

Originally posted by: dannybin1742
agman needs to go back to kansas

Thank you for your useless comment.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Logically, such middle ground does not exist. Either the fetus is a person at a given stage of development or it isn't. Allowing abortions after the onset of 'personhood' is clearly unconstitutional, while allowing before it is perfectly constitutional. Therefore, we need only define where this onset occurs and all of the controversy and confusion will be cleared up. Good luck defining this point though.

Why define it at all? Abortion can be thought of trading one being's life for another. We'd have the choice of killing lifeform (a) or lifeform (b). In that case, I choose the lesser of two evils. Heck, even if constitutionally they are considered human, we can still constitutionally choose the lesser of two evils.

 

[CellarDoor]

Originally posted by: Agman

Originally posted by: dannybin1742
agman needs to go back to kansas

Thank you for your useless comment.

I wouldn't consider it useless. As a man myself, I have absolutely no understanding of what it would be like to be pregnant for 9 months even if I wanted to have the child. I can't imagine what it would be like to be forced into having a child you didn't want, all other issues set aside. I say this because people who think abortions should be illegal, often state that the woman can "simply" have the baby and put it up for adoption. A majority of these people are men, and have no clue as to what that would be like.

 

[Agman]

Originally posted by: mribnik1

Originally posted by: Agman

Originally posted by: dannybin1742
agman needs to go back to kansas

Thank you for your useless comment.

I wouldn't consider it useless. As a man myself, I have absolutely no understanding of what it would be like to be pregnant for 9 months even if I wanted to have the child. I can't imagine what it would be like to be forced into having a child you didn't want, all other issues set aside. I say this because people who think abortions should be illegal, often state that the woman can "simply" have the baby and put it up for adoption. A majority of these people are men, and have no clue as to what that would be like.

I'm not saying having a baby is easy. But just because something is not easy does not mean we shouldn't do it. We can provide help to those women who do not want the baby but do give birth to them and put them up for adoption. I would gladly contribute if such an organization existed.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: mribnik1

Originally posted by: Agman

Originally posted by: dannybin1742
agman needs to go back to kansas

Thank you for your useless comment.

I wouldn't consider it useless. As a man myself, I have absolutely no understanding of what it would be like to be pregnant for 9 months even if I wanted to have the child. I can't imagine what it would be like to be forced into having a child you didn't want, all other issues set aside. I say this because people who think abortions should be illegal, often state that the woman can "simply" have the baby and put it up for adoption. A majority of these people are men, and have no clue as to what that would be like.

That logic doesnt really hold up as a valid reason for exterminating a human life.

So I hate my neighbor who annoys the hell out of me and want to perform a late term abortion on him with a bullet to the back of the head. Most of the people telling me this is illegal have no idea what it has been like to live next ot this guy for the last 9 months. Most people say I should simply put the house up for sale and allow another family to live there. A majority of these people have perfectly fine neighbors that have no clue what is it like.