The Taxman's Watching You — on Google Earth

[lothar]

Well, this isn't the old west when land was given to people to grow the nation - and I'm not sure if even they had to pay property taxes.

We're at the point that there are costs to live in society - not everyone can get to a 'pay nothing' status and keep our civilization.

And having a few get to that status while most are not smacks of oligarchy.

We should be more concerned with as many as possible getting to own a place.

When you look at the countries where a few families own all the land and most citizens are peasants without land and it's unused and wasted...

You understand why there is 'social revolt' against the inequality, and how ridiculous the ruling rich are in trying to say every protest is 'communist'.

Yes...Let's start another recession by giving a bus driver that makes 40k/year a $500k+ home.
DOW to 5,000 anyone?

 

[jackschmittusa]

So some of you think the town is being bad for enforcing its laws?

I thought breaking the law meant you got the "illegal" appellation. Something like "illegal owners" should fit.

 

[MJinZ]

“The way to crush the middle class is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.” Vladimir Lenin

Property tax is most insidious form IMO. Primarily because you're always renting even into old age when it's time to stop, always have to make income to support that for which you have already paid for. And you have to live somewhere. So in effect it is a form a slavery forcing you to work/earn to live.

Wait a minute, are you actually talking about Capitalism and you didn't even know it?

 

[MJinZ]

Property taxes are highly regressive except in a couple states which have 100K exemptions like LA. So it only hurts lower and middle class especially those in fixed income like disabled/old etc, the people you claim to want to help. Many are also tossed when they lose a job living paycheck to paycheck, losing all equity usually once it's over. Terrible tax.

I suspect in NY, having 2-4 percent property tax on assessment that some will lose their homes here as most likely the whole reason they skirted permits/assessment was cost in the first place. Average pool is about 50K so there is an extra $2000 a year every year they owe now.

Maybe they should have thought of that before buying a house they can't afford and a pool they definitely can't afford.

 

[Fear No Evil]

It recently cost me $250 for an inspector to come out and count the # of screws in each window that I had replaced. Yep! My safety is priority #1!

 

[MJinZ]

It recently cost me $250 for an inspector to come out and count the # of screws in each window that I had replaced. Yep! My safety is priority #1!

Does your town also send you a bill for a fire or calling 911? Hahahhahahah

 

[Vette73]

So some of you think the town is being bad for enforcing its laws?

I thought breaking the law meant you got the "illegal" appellation. Something like "illegal owners" should fit.

Its an Amused thread. Look at his other threads he started and you can see he is just another idiot troll without basic common sense.

 

[bamacre]

We should be more concerned with as many as possible getting to own a place.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously?

 

[Amused]

Its an Amused thread. Look at his other threads he started and you can see he is just another idiot troll without basic common sense.

I see your hard-on for me continues.

Aren't you supposed to seek medical attention for one that lasts this long?

 

[Vette73]

I see your hard-on for me continues.

Aren't you supposed to seek medical attention for one that lasts this long?

Awww... someones upset another one of their BS threads has backfired.

Keep up the good work. :awe:

 

[Amused]

Awww... someones upset another one of their BS threads has backfired.

Keep up the good work. :awe:

How did it "backfire?" Because a couple of authoritarian leftists supported the government spying on private property?

Mmmmkay.

There is a reason they used Googlemaps and did not just perform door to door inspections. Can you guess why?

 

[CallMeJoe]

How did it "backfire?" Because a couple of authoritarian leftists supported the government spying on private property?

Mmmmkay.

There is a reason they used Googlemaps and did not just perform door to door inspections. Can you guess why?

Efficiency? Delegating one person to peruse GoogleMaps versus a platoon of inspectors on foot?

 

[jackschmittusa]

Amused

"Because a couple of authoritarian leftists supported the government spying on private property?"

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

How does observing what is in plain sight equate to spying? Perhaps you'll sound even dumber trying to explain that.

As I understand it, you are publicly advocating that municipal employees should be banned from performing their duties, even when performing those duties may positively affect the safety of residents.

And respect and compliance with the law is now a "leftist" activity?

Be careful using a whole box of stupid in one thread, you might run out.

 

[darrontrask]

just checking google earth and it still shows a pool that hasn't been here for at least 5 years. Hope this small town in NY doesn't go this route

 

[Brainonska511]

just checking google earth and it still shows a pool that hasn't been here for at least 5 years. Hope this small town in NY doesn't go this route

They could always combat that problem by just sending inspectors to homes that show a pool on Google.

 

[waggy]

just checking google earth and it still shows a pool that hasn't been here for at least 5 years. Hope this small town in NY doesn't go this route

i was going to mention that. what about blue trampolines? are they going to check?

i would like to find out the number they got wrong.

 

[Darwin333]

Amused

"Because a couple of authoritarian leftists supported the government spying on private property?"

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

How does observing what is in plain sight equate to spying? Perhaps you'll sound even dumber trying to explain that.

As I understand it, you are publicly advocating that municipal employees should be banned from performing their duties, even when performing those duties may positively affect the safety of residents.

And respect and compliance with the law is now a "leftist" activity?

Be careful using a whole box of stupid in one thread, you might run out.

Its not in plain sight, it is hidden behind a fence. I am not sure about you but I consider my completely fenced in backyard as a "private" area. What about satellites with thermal imaging abilities counting the inhabitants inside your house? Is that "plain sight" as well?

Granted, these people clearly broke the law to avoid paying taxes that I have to pay so I don't feel sorry for them in the least but the "plain sight" argument is BS if you need a freakin satellite for it to be in "plain sight". That means that "plain sight" is defined by current technology and that is not a road I want to go down.

And Zebo is right, perpetual property taxes are bullshit BUT taxes are needed to support the local community. I just don't think a person should EVER be kicked out of a house they outright "own" because they can't afford the property taxes anymore. This really only hurts the poor and fixed income people. The county says grandma's house is worth 25% more so her taxes are raised beyond what she can afford because she is retired and has no real ability to raise her income so she is forced to move or lose a house she spent decades purchasing (and paying taxes on). That is bullshit.

Almost everything else is taxed at purchase and sale but the most important thing you have is taxed yearly at a rate that you have little or no control over (you have a single vote for the millage in most cases but have almost no control over the inflation in estimated price). Keep in mind that I agree the money still must be raised and taxed from the same pool of people I just don't think the government should be able to take your home from you after you have already paid decades worth of taxes, often taxes on the purchase itself, fees to do damn near anything to it, etc... The bottom line is you never ever really "own" your house if you have to pay property taxes. That ain't right.

 

[Throckmorton]

Its not in plain sight, it is hidden behind a fence. I am not sure about you but I consider my completely fenced in backyard as a "private" area. What about satellites with thermal imaging abilities counting the inhabitants inside your house? Is that "plain sight" as well?

Granted, these people clearly broke the law to avoid paying taxes that I have to pay so I don't feel sorry for them in the least but the "plain sight" argument is BS if you need a freakin satellite for it to be in "plain sight". That means that "plain sight" is defined by current technology and that is not a road I want to go down.

And Zebo is right, perpetual property taxes are bullshit BUT taxes are needed to support the local community. I just don't think a person should EVER be kicked out of a house they outright "own" because they can't afford the property taxes anymore. This really only hurts the poor and fixed income people. The county says grandma's house is worth 25% more so her taxes are raised beyond what she can afford because she is retired and has no real ability to raise her income so she is forced to move or lose a house she spent decades purchasing (and paying taxes on). That is bullshit.

Almost everything else is taxed at purchase and sale but the most important thing you have is taxed yearly at a rate that you have little or no control over (you have a single vote for the millage in most cases but have almost no control over the inflation in estimated price). Keep in mind that I agree the money still must be raised and taxed from the same pool of people I just don't think the government should be able to take your home from you after you have already paid decades worth of taxes, often taxes on the purchase itself, fees to do damn near anything to it, etc... The bottom line is you never ever really "own" your house if you have to pay property taxes. That ain't right.

You don't need a satellite, you need aerial photos, which is what Google Earth uses.


I agree that yearly property tax is a ridiculous concept. You're basically continually paying to own something you are supposed to already own.

 

[Amused]

Amused

"Because a couple of authoritarian leftists supported the government spying on private property?"

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

How does observing what is in plain sight equate to spying? Perhaps you'll sound even dumber trying to explain that.

As I understand it, you are publicly advocating that municipal employees should be banned from performing their duties, even when performing those duties may positively affect the safety of residents.

And respect and compliance with the law is now a "leftist" activity?

Be careful using a whole box of stupid in one thread, you might run out.

Because it WASN'T in plain sight until Googlemaps published it.

They (the government) used a private enterprise's images to get around the 4th Amendment.

Without Googlemaps, they would never have known about the pools. With Google Maps, what was once private is now not private and open to search. Without Google Maps, they would have had to get a warrant to search private property. With Googlemaps, they have an end run around that process. What was once private property and NOT in plain sight, now is published for all to see.

THAT is the relevance to this story.

Maybe you should read the 4th Amendment before insulting others?

 

[Amused]

You don't need a satellite, you need aerial photos, which is what Google Earth uses.


I agree that yearly property tax is a ridiculous concept. You're basically continually paying to own something you are supposed to already own.

And without Google Earth, those images would not be available. The government would need to directly fly over the property to inspect it, which means NOT in plain sight.

Now, yes, I know this issue has been battled in court and privacy lost (It was actually Barbara Streisand who sued to have her house removed). But that doesn't make this any more right. The inability to opt out and have your PRIVATE property removed from publication is an affront to the very concept of privacy, and now (as per this story) opens your property up to warrant-less searches.

At the very least, the government should NOT be allowed to use these images to makes cases, be they tax or criminal, against property owners. Best case, property owners should be able to have the private areas of their property removed from publication.

 

[jackschmittusa]

The airspace over the properties is open. Hell, you could see it from such modern tech as a hot air balloon. I bet the neighbors can see them from 2nd story windows. I'd certainly call that "plain view". The argument of privacy violation is really weak.

So now you argue that breaking the law should be protected if is it is done in private, even if the privacy is an illusion. I also don't see the images being used "to make cases". They are simply a clue that sends an investigator to determine if the law has been broken. It's simply probable cause when no permits are on file for the address.

And is respect for and compliance with the law still a "leftist activity"?

Arguing whether property taxes are right or fair is one issue. If you don't like the laws, voting and political action are the solutions under our system. Advocating only obeying laws you like is anarchy.

 

[Cogman]

Working for an engineering consulting firm, I can guarantee you google earth is being used for more then just spotting illegal pools. We use it constantly for mapping stuff ect.

 

[Darwin333]

You don't need a satellite, you need aerial photos, which is what Google Earth uses.


I agree that yearly property tax is a ridiculous concept. You're basically continually paying to own something you are supposed to already own.

What is the difference between satellite images and aerial images? You are still stating that "plain sight" is defined by technology. If they invent a camera that sees through walls and they mount that on a plane, is your living room now considered within "plain sight"? Not in my book its not, the same applies to my backyard as long as I take reasonable measures to remove it from "plain sight", such as a privacy fence.

 

[Amused]

The airspace over the properties is open. Hell, you could see it from such modern tech as a hot air balloon. I bet the neighbors can see them from 2nd story windows. I'd certainly call that "plain view". The argument of privacy violation is really weak.

So now you argue that breaking the law should be protected if is it is done in private, even if the privacy is an illusion. I also don't see the images being used "to make cases". They are simply a clue that sends an investigator to determine if the law has been broken. It's simply probable cause when no permits are on file for the address.

And is respect for and compliance with the law still a "leftist activity"?

Arguing whether property taxes are right or fair is one issue. If you don't like the laws, voting and political action are the solutions under our system. Advocating only obeying laws you like is anarchy.

I have advocated NOTHING but 4th Amendment rights to be secure (privacy) within your own property and person.

Darwin33 makes my point for me. If I take reasonable steps to make my property private, that means it is no longer in "plain sight" and thus requires probable cause and a permit to search. That technology has made what was once private, viewable is moot. It is, for all intents and purposes, NOT in "plain sight" and extrodinary measures had to be taken to see the property. That, when used by the state, is called an unlawful search.

Did I say the folks with permitless pools were right or wrong? No. Only that they have an expectation of privacy on their walled property. Period.

 

[Throckmorton]

What is the difference between satellite images and aerial images? You are still stating that "plain sight" is defined by technology. If they invent a camera that sees through walls and they mount that on a plane, is your living room now considered within "plain sight"? Not in my book its not, the same applies to my backyard as long as I take reasonable measures to remove it from "plain sight", such as a privacy fence.

This is the same view you have riding in a plane or standing on high point in the region. I don't see how there's an expection of privacy.