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The tax rate on the rich is not the problem, it's the loopholes

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Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
It's not tax accountants. It's Congress and judges.

You can't have a loophole without faulty law and/or the confirmation by the courts that the loophole is valid.
Wait, hold on.

If a tax accountant does something, it's not their fault? How does that work?

If they aren't responsible for doing these things, why is it that they're getting paid for it?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
Well, tax rates for the rich ARE part of the problem, specifically the capital gains tax. I wouldn't call that a loophole, many of the superrich make most of their money on passive investments and getting taxed at ridiculously low rates while the rest of us are getting taxed at higher rates while working our tails off.
Isn't it funny how some people see earning money off their investments as an opportunity to strive for and people like yourself see it as some form of class warfare?

Attitude has an awful lot to do with what you do with your life. I predict you will get nowhere because of your preconceived notion that you've gotten the short end of the stick. Smart people adapt and work within the system in place. People like yourself rail against it and excel at being angry. You're the master of your own destiny. Take control of the helm and chart a course for success or keep whining, bitching and screaming while wallowing in your anger. It's a choice that's yours and yours alone.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Isn't it funny how some people see earning money off their investments as an opportunity to strive for and people like yourself see it as some form of class warfare?

Attitude has an awful lot to do with what you do with your life. I predict you will get nowhere because of your preconceived notion that you've gotten the short end of the stick. Smart people adapt and work within the system in place. People like yourself rail against it and excel at being angry. You're the master of your own destiny. Take control of the helm and chart a course for success or keep whining, bitching and screaming while wallowing in your anger. It's a choice that's yours and yours alone.
I predict that, despite you praising people for their tax-dodging actions, you won't get anywhere near being able to make use of them yourself.

You'll be no better off than most other people.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
I predict that, despite you praising people for their tax-dodging actions, you won't get anywhere near being able to make use of them yourself.

You'll be no better off than most other people.
Tax-dodging? Really? Ignorance comes packaged in many forms.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Yes, tax dodging.

If you dodge tax, then it's fair to call it tax dodging.
If Congress wrote the rule into the tax code, how is it tax dodging.

Example: The tuition credit and student loan interest did not exist a few years ago.

How many here bitching about loopholes, tax dodging have taken either? Or are planning on using them.

What is the difference between what you ate doing vs someone that has an account find legal ways to reduce the taxable income?

How many are taking advantage of the HSA accounts or Flex Spending accounts via employer. Both are another tax dodge. Avoiding paying taxes on earned income.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
If Congress wrote the rule into the tax code, how is it tax dodging.

Example: The tuition credit and student loan interest did not exist a few years ago.

How many here bitching about loopholes, tax dodging have taken either? Or are planning on using them.

What is the difference between what you ate doing vs someone that has an account find legal ways to reduce the taxable income?

How many are taking advantage of the HSA accounts or Flex Spending accounts via employer. Both are another tax dodge. Avoiding paying taxes on earned income.
And here we go, people trying to excuse the inexcusable, and compare widely-advertised schemes setup for normal people to take advantage of, with the actions of well-trained accountants scouring the fine print of tax laws.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
770
126
Isn't it funny how some people see earning money off their investments as an opportunity to strive for and people like yourself see it as some form of class warfare?

Attitude has an awful lot to do with what you do with your life. I predict you will get nowhere because of your preconceived notion that you've gotten the short end of the stick. Smart people adapt and work within the system in place. People like yourself rail against it and excel at being angry. You're the master of your own destiny. Take control of the helm and chart a course for success or keep whining, bitching and screaming while wallowing in your anger. It's a choice that's yours and yours alone.
Uhm, my household makes between 160K to 180k (depending on bonuses). I would say i got 'somewhere'.

Are you one of the 'smart people' who has hundreds of millions to billions of dollars to live off passive investments? Because that's what your snarky post seems to imply. If not, shut the hell up you idiot.

I have a right to be angry that Mitt Romney pays a lower tax rate than i do.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,604
17
81
It is what isn't included into the "income" that I care about. What's the big deal with 15% or 50% tax rate when 80% of your income is hidden in a trust in Cayman Island or Bermuda?
Or more.
Get billions in profit, and pay less than 1% in taxes on it.
If you've got enough money (individual or company), you can afford to effectively have pet politicians on your payroll.



If Congress wrote the rule into the tax code, how is it tax dodging.
If a corrupt Congress wrote the rule into the tax code...

- "Here's my grievance, Congressman. Please see if you can do anything about it."
- "Here's my grievance, Congressman. Oh, and I've got $30,000,000 sitting around in a fund, and it's considering getting out and making itself useful somehow. I've also read that you're going to be up for reelection next year. Interesting. Oooh, neat. A group of goldfinches is outside on the lawn. Well, in any case, please see if you can do anything about that grievance."
One of those two is going to receive priority.


Example: The tuition credit and student loan interest did not exist a few years ago.

How many here bitching about loopholes, tax dodging have taken either? Or are planning on using them.

What is the difference between what you ate doing vs someone that has an account find legal ways to reduce the taxable income?

How many are taking advantage of the HSA accounts or Flex Spending accounts via employer. Both are another tax dodge. Avoiding paying taxes on earned income.
A good deal of the upset comes from having politicians or pundits complaining about low-income or middle-income people not paying "their fair share," while at the same time defending the extremely wealthy as if they're leading a horrible life of endless persecution and torment.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
And here we go, people trying to excuse the inexcusable, and compare widely-advertised schemes setup for normal people to take advantage of, with the actions of well-trained accountants scouring the fine print of tax laws.
Accounts are paid to review the laws and find out what is most beneficial to their client.

That is their job.

You do your job well enough to get paid. And you also read the tax laws enough to use a loophole that was written to shelter some of your income.

If you either can not read, can not comprehend or do not have the time, hire an accountant to do the digging for you.
Or take your local Congressional rep to lunch and explain how unfair the tax code is to you and ask that a stipulation be added to the tax code that no person who has earned income should have to pay taxes on it.

That is what you are complaining about others doing. What stops you from the same approach? :confused:
Lack of drive?
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Uhm, my household makes between 160K to 180k (depending on bonuses). I would say i got 'somewhere'.

Are you one of the 'smart people' who has hundreds of millions to billions of dollars to live off passive investments? Because that's what your snarky post seems to imply. If not, shut the hell up you idiot.

I have a right to be angry that Mitt Romney pays a lower tax rate than i do.
You should be able to put 50k a year into investments if you desired. In 20 years, live off those investments while paying a lower tax rate.

What are you complaining about? Lack of desire on your part. The incentive is there.

Or you want some one to hold your hand and wipe away the tears for you.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Accounts ate paid to review the laws and find out what is most beneficial to their client.

That is their job.

You do your job well enough to get paid. And you also read the tax laws enough to usr a loophole that was written to shelter some of your income.
Again, trying to excuse the inexcusable. You aren't ever going to be in a position to benefit from this sort of thing, so why fool yourself into thinking otherwise?

Adultery isn't illegal, yet I doubt you'd sit there saying "women aren't paid to review the laws" if she cheated on you.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
You should be able to put 50k a year into investments if you desired. In 20 years, live off those investments while paying a lower tax rate.

What are you complaining about? Lack of desire on your part. The incentive is there.

Or you want some one to hold your hand and wipe away the tears for you.
What does this even mean? It's just bland nonsense.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Again, trying to excuse the inexcusable. You aren't ever going to be in a position to benefit from this sort of thing, so why fool yourself into thinking otherwise?

Adultery isn't illegal, yet I doubt you'd sit there saying "women aren't paid to review the laws" if she cheated on you.
You claim you are not going to be in that position. I say you are already there but refuse to take the needed steps to succeed.

You are willing to sit back and moan about lack of success and achievement rather that doing something about it.

You expect the handout to come to you rather than earning it or making it so there is no need for such handouts.

With respect to the adultery question, one goes to a specialist rather than reading up on the laws. Pay for the expertise needed that benefits you the most.

Same as with accountants. Pay for their serviced to get what benefits you.

They may not save you money at that point, but they can advise you on how to usr what you have better
 
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Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
You claim you are not going to be in that position. I say you are already there but refuse to take the needed steps to succeed.

You are willing to sit back and moan about lack of success and achievement rather that doing something about it.

You expect the handout to come to you rather than earning it or making it so there is no need for such handouts.
Again with the meaningless, propaganda-esque nonsense.

With respect to the adultery question, one goes to a specialist rather than reading up on the laws. Pay for the expertise needed that benefits you the most.

Same as with accountants. Pay for their serviced to get what benefits you.

They may not save you money at that point, but they can advise you on how to usr what you have better
How does this actually address my adultery question?

Would you, or would you not, accept the excuse that adultery isn't illegal if your partner cheated on you?
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,464
2
0
life is full of things that aren't fair. play your cards as best you can and don't worry that someone else got dealt a better hand.

ZOMG someone else pays a lower tax rate than i do!!! it's not his fault he pays less so don't get mad at him. call on your representatitves to do something about it.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Again with the meaningless, propaganda-esque nonsense.



How does this actually address my adultery question?

Would you, or would you not, accept the excuse that adultery isn't illegal if your partner cheated on you?
You are trying to equate morally with sanctioned legality.

Not going to play the game. Sorry.

You do not like the rules of the game:
1) Do not play the game
2) Change the rules the way you want them and hope others will play
3) Create your own game with your own rules.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,040
0
76
life is full of things that aren't fair. play your cards as best you can and don't worry that someone else got dealt a better hand.

ZOMG someone else pays a lower tax rate than i do!!! it's not his fault he pays less so don't get mad at him. call on your representatitves to do something about it.
One of the primary purposes of the government is to try to even out this inherent unfairness. Medicare and Medicaid provide care for those unlucky enough to have become sick while not being able to afford healthcare. Social security provides benefits to those financially disadvantaged, as well as those who have worked their whole lives and 'deserve' something back for all the taxes they've paid. The government regulates the quality of major infrastructure such as roads, water, and electricity, as well as things like food and medicine to make sure that everyone gets what they pay for and that what they get is what citizens of a developed country 'deserve'. And of course, the military is there so that you don't get 'unfairly' invaded by Canadians.

If you want to ignore inequities in tax collection because "life is unfair", you may as well cut Defense, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid first, because the only purpose of these four programs is to help make things 'fairer' for Americans, and these four programs cost you over 2 trillion dollars a year.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
life is full of things that aren't fair. play your cards as best you can and don't worry that someone else got dealt a better hand.

ZOMG someone else pays a lower tax rate than i do!!! it's not his fault he pays less so don't get mad at him. call on your representatitves to do something about it.
You are trying to equate morally with sanctioned legality.

Not going to play the game. Sorry.

You do not like the rules of the game:
1) Do not play the game
2) Change the rules the way you want them and hope others will play
3) Create your own game with your own rules.
Hnnnnnng!

Must. Maintain. Status. Quo. So. Maybe. One. Day. I. Can. Do. The. Same. Thing.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Seems like you believe on breaking some of the 10 Commandments.

No compulsion in stealing from others.
Envy that people working for what they have seem to have more than you.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,610
4,154
136
Closing tax code loopholes won't be the silver bullet that will single handily cure all the deficit woes outright, so it is not worth bothering with.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,604
17
81
Closing tax code loopholes won't be the silver bullet that will single handily cure all the deficit woes outright, so it is not worth bothering with.
Just because something doesn't fix a problem 100% doesn't mean you should just leave the problem fester until the magic bullet does show up, which is unlikely to ever happen.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Closing tax code loopholes won't be the silver bullet that will single handily cure all the deficit woes outright, so it is not worth bothering with.
The downfall of an organization is rarely caused by just 1 big thing. It's normally a lot of little things that create an opportunity for a big thing to happen.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
Closing tax code loopholes won't be the silver bullet that will single handily cure all the deficit woes outright, so it is not worth bothering with.
When I pay $1 for something taxable in my state I must pay an additional $.06 in tax on it. There's no way the state can run on that $.06 so why should I have to pay it?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,610
4,154
136
You shouldn't have to, I agree. That's money that's just going towards Obamabucks for the poor/disabled/old and useless anyway. What have they provided for the economy? Government and the 47% of the population they support are the problem.
 

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