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The tax rate on the rich is not the problem, it's the loopholes

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
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I see a lot of talk about how the ultra rich don't get taxed enough, but no one talks about the loopholes. It's all smoke and mirrors to get the public eye off the real issue about taxes. There is nothing wrong with the top tax bracket and it should NOT be increased. The real problem is that there are too many loopholes that the ultra wealthy take advantage of to lower their rate. Increasing the tax rate is just going to hurt the upper middle class. this is how it was explained to me by my friend 10 years ago:

The poor vote for more taxes so they will get more benefits while the rich just pay off politicians to create loopholes so they will pay less taxes. This just causes the middle class to get squeezed.


let me know your thoughts on this.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,255
699
126
You don't need these "loopholes" (what are they anyway) when you get most of your "income" at the nice, high rate of 15% (cap. gains).
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
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None of this shit matters at all, you could literally take everything they earn from income capital gains and sell off their entire estate and it would cover just a few weeks of JUST deficit spending.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
You don't need these "loopholes" (what are they anyway) when you get most of your "income" at the nice, high rate of 15% (cap. gains).
deductions, cap gains. the difference between long and short cap gains. Those are all loopholes.


I think you should be able to write off losses and expenses against gains, but not carry them forward forever. I'm sure thare a lot more I'm not getting at, but I'm not a tax expert so I can't say for sure.

I don't know anything about business taxes so I'll reserve judgement on that for later.



None of this shit matters at all, you could literally take everything they earn from income capital gains and sell off their entire estate and it would cover just a few weeks of JUST deficit spending.
that is the other side of the coin. both spending and taxes/loopholes need to be resolved
 
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Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
None of this shit matters at all, you could literally take everything they earn from income capital gains and sell off their entire estate and it would cover just a few weeks of JUST deficit spending.
This is the type of crap that rich people like to peddle out.

Of course it matters.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
None of this shit matters at all, you could literally take everything they earn from income capital gains and sell off their entire estate and it would cover just a few weeks of JUST deficit spending.
Wait a minute. That can't be right because that would lead one to believe that raising tax rates for the rich is purely punitive. Why would anyone want to punish success?
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,649
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76
www.facebook.com
This is the type of crap that rich people like to peddle out. Of course it matters.
For them as individuals it really doesn't matter, and for the size of the govt it means nothing. I honestly don't care if they raise the top marginal income tax rate to 100% because it wouldn't give the govt more than it already gets and maybe it would shut the liberals up as well as prove those Republican pro-"growth" supply sider idiots wrong.

I'd like more deductions and higher marginal rates if it meant fewer people paid taxes and I think Romney would actually give the govt more revenue and do more "stimulus" than Obama has. The reason things aren't worse is because Obama has accellerated the growth of federal spending less than pretty much any Republican since Coolidge has. Those neo-TP fuckheads can argue that they oppose modern liberalism all they want to until they're die from an MI, but it doesn't mean that they're against fiscally liberal policies.
 
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HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,814
30
91
I think everyone should pay the same percentages for the most part
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
One man's 'loophole' is another man's economic incentive.

Fern
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,255
699
126
deductions, cap gains. the difference between long and short cap gains. Those are all loopholes.
No they are not. Those things are written into tax law. Loopholes are usually holes in the tax code that allowed untended deductions or the like to occur. Of course, there is little incentive to actually close a loophole. People get very "creative" when trying to avoid paying taxes.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
One man's 'loophole' is another man's economic incentive.

Fern
I seem to recall outrage at GE not paying taxes due to a loophole created by Democrats to incent companies to invest in (arguably) green intiatives.

Left wing outrage is a very confusing thing. At least the right can be counted to rage about the same ridiculous things, the left doesn't even know what they want to be mad about.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
Well, the sad part, they will continue to use the loop holes there are so many. Depends on how much money ya got. Since you can only use so many. If your poor you might be able to use one. But if your filthy rich you can use 100's of em.

Regardless of taxing the rich or not.... Loopholes will always be around and as soon as you close em they are smart tax accountants reading the code to find more. Who's interpretation is correct? What it didn't mean this or that? Oh sorry...

What ever happened to the words... "ignorance is no excuse for the law"?

I think we should just start putting these accountants away that dream up loop holes. Oh sorry if you can't read the laws correctly. I guess being a tax accountant is not for you. Jail time! :)
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
Well, the sad part, they will continue to use the loop holes there are so many. Depends on how much money ya got. Since you can only use so many. If your poor you might be able to use one. But if your filthy rich you can use 100's of em.

Regardless of taxing the rich or not.... Loopholes will always be around and as soon as you close em they are smart tax accountants reading the code to find more. Who's interpretation is correct? What it didn't mean this or that? Oh sorry...

What ever happened to the words... "ignorance is no excuse for the law"?

I think we should just start putting these accountants away that dream up loop holes. Oh sorry if you can't read the laws correctly. I guess being a tax accountant is not for you. Jail time! :)
It's not tax accountants. It's Congress and judges.

You can't have a loophole without faulty law and/or the confirmation by the courts that the loophole is valid.

Fern
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
I seem to recall outrage at GE not paying taxes due to a loophole created by Democrats to incent companies to invest in (arguably) green intiatives.

Left wing outrage is a very confusing thing. At least the right can be counted to rage about the same ridiculous things, the left doesn't even know what they want to be mad about.
You must be a real tool if you think this is an R or D issue. Both sides have their hands in the cookie jar. Hell, look at all the perks (tax breaks) we give everyone in congress it's disgusting. This is as bipartisan as it gets!

They get free healthcare and fucking idiot republicans are ok with that (ultra rich paying NOTHING for finest healthcare the USA has to offer) tho, you want to give a few bucks to a poor black woman for an abortion and you'd think you set 5 billion bibles on fire!

Wanna get mad about something? Hows that for starters?
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
It's not tax accountants. It's Congress and judges.

You can't have a loophole without faulty law and/or the confirmation by the courts that the loophole is valid.

Fern
Fine... Throw the judges and congress along with the tax accountants that are obviously using the loopholes in the rich fucks taxes in jail as well... Never seen a rich fuck do his / her own taxes. Not if they want a loophole. Sure it will cost em some mula but look how much they will save?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
1
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Wait a minute. That can't be right because that would lead one to believe that raising tax rates for the rich is purely punitive. Why would anyone want to punish success?
Taxes are only "punishing success" if you believe that paying for the privilege to live in the best country on Earth is a punishment.
 

PandaBear

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2000
1,375
1
81
It is what isn't included into the "income" that I care about. What's the big deal with 15% or 50% tax rate when 80% of your income is hidden in a trust in Cayman Island or Bermuda?
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
This is the type of crap that rich people like to peddle out.

Of course it matters.
You're still here? Hasn't your country collapsed yet?

That dumbass argument was brought up and slammed to the ground by most here. You are whining and bitching about 5 percent of a problem that would result in the complete collapse of the US economic machine.

If you ignore taking EVERYTHING the rich have and leaving them with 10 percent income with their homes then congratulations you just solved point two zero percent of the debt crisis have a cookie.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
You're still here? Hasn't your country collapsed yet?

That dumbass argument was brought up and slammed to the ground by most here. You are whining and bitching about 5 percent of a problem that would result in the complete collapse of the US economic machine.

If you ignore taking EVERYTHING the rich have and leaving them with 10 percent income with their homes then congratulations you just solved point two zero percent of the debt crisis have a cookie.
Don't forget that once this oppressive method of fleecing the "rich" is done and over with then those people who were held up at gun point and robbed by goverment now end up being disincentized to further produce wealth at the same rates which they once were producing in the past. Thus tax revenues produced by those who were once considered "wealthy" on subsequent years if such would-be draconian laws were passed would be significantly less.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,649
0
76
www.facebook.com
You can't have a loophole without faulty law and/or the confirmation by the courts that the loophole is valid.
(Neocon is another candidate.)
There is very little consensus among the neocons on what they stand for other than foreign policy and even then they're divided. They have the same Troskyist root, as Hamilton and Jefferson were not neocons, but Hamilton certainly shared a lot with neoconservatives. It could be said that since neocons are Wilsonians to the core like FDR was, even if they don't agree with everything FDR did. They are very similar to Obama but I do have to give Gingrich credit for admitting that he'd rather have Obama than Dr. Paul. Then again, Gingrich didn't do it on his own, as Dr. Paul prompted him to because the former's stupid ass was exposed by the latter. The only thing Gingrich can do on his own is wallow in the devil's feces, because he naturally is a parasitic piece of shit like all political oppurtunists.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
770
126
Well, tax rates for the rich ARE part of the problem, specifically the capital gains tax. I wouldn't call that a loophole, many of the superrich make most of their money on passive investments and getting taxed at ridiculously low rates while the rest of us are getting taxed at higher rates while working our tails off.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,464
2
0
I see a lot of talk about how the ultra rich don't get taxed enough, but no one talks about the loopholes. It's all smoke and mirrors to get the public eye off the real issue about taxes. There is nothing wrong with the top tax bracket and it should NOT be increased. The real problem is that there are too many loopholes that the ultra wealthy take advantage of to lower their rate. Increasing the tax rate is just going to hurt the upper middle class. this is how it was explained to me by my friend 10 years ago:

The poor vote for more taxes so they will get more benefits while the rich just pay off politicians to create loopholes so they will pay less taxes. This just causes the middle class to get squeezed.


let me know your thoughts on this.
ding ding ding we have a winner!!!! take out all but maybe 10 deductions that everyone can realisticially take advantage of and get out these rules. keep in mind they're not "loopholes" as they were put there intentionally.


disclaimer: did not read rest of threadthread
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,040
0
76
None of this shit matters at all, you could literally take everything they earn from income capital gains and sell off their entire estate and it would cover just a few weeks of JUST deficit spending.
No single thing that anyone does will return the US to surplus and pay off the debt. That doesn't mean these things aren't worth doing, every bit will help.
 

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