The Schwartz Speaks

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

A. Obviously if one of them does something illegal he will be tried just like any other person would. I don't think that needs saying, you should just "get" that. He obviously wouldn't have immunity since Bush himself doesn't approve of these guys!

Define illegal. I'm not allowed to take my gun downtown or to the mall and walk around, looking for purse snatchers and shoplifters, am I? Should I be?

B. Oh yes? So we should just let the foreign invaders come in unchecked, yes? We have no right to defend our land, our nation, our posessions, our loved ones? Yet they have the right to come in whenever they please, in defiance of the law, to work, to kill, to steal or whatever, with immunity?

Yoohoo, Mr. Exaggeration, we're trying to have a civilized debate down here on Earth - check your over-inflated ego and wild accusations at the door, please. No one is supporting the immigrants and any criminal activity they may engage in here. No one is saying "we should just let the foreign invaders come in unchecked." Wipe the saliva from your mouth and try to get a grip. We are debating whether or not it is a good idea to have armed civilians with no accountability and no training running around "saving" us from "them damn foreigners." You have every right to defend *your* land. If you want to shoot someone who climbs over the fence into your yard, by all means, shoot 'em. But the border is probably not all owned by these minutemen, so they are not defending "their" land at all.

C. SOME of them carry weapons as a matter of defense. According to all reports, MOST do not carry anything more than a cell phone and a 2 way radio. Do the illegal immigrants come with weapons? Well let's see, we know for a fact now that Mexican DRUG RUNNERS come across ARMED to the teeth on a regular basis. AMERICAN CITIZENS who live in the border areas are TERRIFIED day and night by illegal alien and drug runner activity that the government REFUSES to address or stop. One of the minutemen reported that his reason for being there was that his son, who had just returned from Iraq, was ROBBED AT GUNPOINT by illegals near the border, who STOLE HIS CAR and took off. So the answer is that YES, many of them DO come over armed, and not only armed but with the intention of committing CRIMES.

Ok, then that seems like a bad situation to put civilians in, now doesn't it? Especially civilians with emotional baggage that may affect his or her personal judgement in life or death scenarios. National Guard, Armed Forces, Police, Fire Fighters, etc all receive training to deal with emergency life-or-death situations and are evaulated and certified to be competent enough to deal with them. Like it or not, your average individual, no matter how great his personal sense of self worth or how sincere his desire to help out, may NOT be qualified to deal with this type of scenario. That's not a knock against anyone, simply a matter of fact.

Furthermore, when the Government REFUSES to do its job, the authority to do so remains WITH THE PEOPLE. Do try to remember that the government does NOT own all authority, it owns only what authority is delegated to it BY THE PEOPLE, and ALL other rights and responsibilities are retained BY THE PEOPLE. The minutemen have EVERY right to be there, EVERY right to patrol the border and EVERY right to report illegal activity to the appropriate authorities.

Don't even TRY to lecture me about the powers and authority of the government granted by the Constitution. I assure you I am just as much, if not moreso, schooled in that area than youself. This isn't a pissing contest, so put your d1ck away for a while. I have yet to argue that these minutemen have no RIGHT to be there, but simply that them being there is not a good idea and possibly not the BEST solution to this problem. You seem to think it is a sign of personal responsibility, yet I argue that it is just the opposite. They have taken the "easy" way out. I seriously doubt they have exhausted all options to get governmental support for this issue. Have they lobbied and rallied to elect local officials who feel this is an issue and will address it? Have they elected effective representatives that bring up these issues to the state and federal levels? Have they voted to increased their taxes in order to adequately train themselves and others to take these duties? Or did they simply decide one day to call their buds, pick up a rifle and go walking around, pointing guns at things that go bump in the night?

Again, I'm not 100% familiar with the entire situation, so maybe they *have* done all these things I mentioned and are scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas. If so, then yeah, more power to them. If not, then I stand by my ONLY argument that this may not the be the BEST, MOST EFFECTIVE solution to the immigration problem.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

If they are only reporting them, then why carry weapons? Are the illegal immigrants coming over armed?

Didn't know your were a gun grabbing liberal.

?? WTF? Please, stay out of the conversation if you have no clue what you are talking about and have nothing of value to add. :roll:

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Spencer278

If they are only reporting them, then why carry weapons? Are the illegal immigrants coming over armed?

Didn't know your were a gun grabbing liberal.

?? WTF? Please, stay out of the conversation if you have no clue what you are talking about and have nothing of value to add. :roll:

You make it sounds like you should not have a gun unless you plan to commit a crime.

 

[wchou]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Well if he's serious, he's also RIGHT. We need to CLOSE the border down and stop letting in the MILLIONS of illegal aliens who cross our border every year. This is not to say we should stop all immigration, just ILLEGAL immigration. We should also get our police, FBI and Immigration Enforcement personnel busy rounding up illegals who are already here and DEPORT them. I have no problem with people wanting to come here from scuzzhole countries like Mexico to make a better life for themselves and their families, but goddammit they need to do it the LEGAL and LEGITIMATE way. Anything else is a slap in the face to those who DO go through the process.

Also, all these goddamn REPUBLICANS who are trying to pass every freaking AMNESTY bill that comes their way need to pull their heads out of their asses and PROTECT OUR BORDERS.

Jason

That is racist man, why not just welcome everyone with an open arm including the soviet, communist etc.
:beer:
AMERICA IS A FREE COUNTRY FOR THE PUBLIC AND BY THE PUBLIC.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Spencer278

If they are only reporting them, then why carry weapons? Are the illegal immigrants coming over armed?

Didn't know your were a gun grabbing liberal.

?? WTF? Please, stay out of the conversation if you have no clue what you are talking about and have nothing of value to add. :roll:

You make it sounds like you should not have a gun unless you plan to commit a crime.

😕 Then perhaps you should re-read what I said.

I had no intention to come off suggesting that. I am a firm supporter of the second amendment. But just because I believe it is every citizen's right to OWN a firearm, doesn't mean that it is every citizens right to carry and use that firearm whenever and for whatever they want.

 

[piasabird]

It will be interesting to see if Schwarzenegger can be reelected. I lived in Texas for a while in El-Paso, and you can hardly get a job unless you are bilingual.

If I had it my way we would treat people coming from Mexico the way the Mexicans treat people trying to sneak accross their souther boarder; they have a huge army contingent down there and they just lethal force against the invaders.

In reality the US is being invaded by Mexico.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: conjur
It's going to take a different administration to do something about the number illegals crossing the border. As long as there is a pro-business administration in control, nothing will be done about it, no matter the security risks nor the social welfare costs.

If Bush Sr. would have suggested shutting down the borders back in 1990, I think the left would have been screaming RACISM at him.. my, how things change.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: conjur
It's going to take a different administration to do something about the number illegals crossing the border. As long as there is a pro-business administration in control, nothing will be done about it, no matter the security risks nor the social welfare costs.

If Bush Sr. would have suggested shutting down the borders back in 1990, I think the left would have been screaming RACISM at him.. my, how things change.

People are always screaming racism. Its just the individuals and particular issues that change, the screaming is still the same. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hurts.

 

[Zebo]

I like Illegals. Bring in more. If you owned any type of business you'd say the same thing.

 

[Zebo]

Maybe we should have a trade agreement with mex. You send us all yours we'll send you ours who like the, shall we say, "sleep till noon mediterranean lifestlye" found in mexico. They'll fit right in.

In general mexicans work hard, ask not much in return, and are very committed spirtually. Good people. Unlike whites and blacks who seem to be lazy, demanding, spoiled, selfish relativly speaking.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Spencer278

If they are only reporting them, then why carry weapons? Are the illegal immigrants coming over armed?

Didn't know your were a gun grabbing liberal.

?? WTF? Please, stay out of the conversation if you have no clue what you are talking about and have nothing of value to add. :roll:

You make it sounds like you should not have a gun unless you plan to commit a crime.

😕 Then perhaps you should re-read what I said.

I had no intention to come off suggesting that. I am a firm supporter of the second amendment. But just because I believe it is every citizen's right to OWN a firearm, doesn't mean that it is every citizens right to carry and use that firearm whenever and for whatever they want.

The law allows them to carry if they have a permit. They are doing nothing wrong.

I find it funny that some US citizens prefer the 'rights' (do they have those?) of illegal immigrants over those of US citizens.

And yes, if your city allows you to carry and you are not in an establishment that bans weapons, then you can walk around and play citizen cop if you want. Just be aware that if you screw up you will be the one taking the heat and not the city.