The rich have unions, so why Are regular Americans against unions for themselves.

[waggy]

a big part many are now anti-union is easy.

Then in 2008 (or so). The Union allowed pay to drop from $30 to $15 (or less) an hour. in doing so the UNION got a huge payment in cash. So many took it to look like they fucked over the union members for cash.

this made many not trust the union anymore.

Also as others said they go on strike at times for the oddest fucking things. you don't get a full paycheck you get a fucked up amount that does not pay the bills.

 

[Sonikku]

I have a friend who worked for Verizon in the late 90's making $22/hr to answer phones. They went on strike for more money. She was shocked after the strike they downsized her whole department and she has been forced to work odd jobs for around $9-$11/hr

$22 to answer phones? in the 90's? Crikes no wonder Americans are pissed busting their backs over $7.25 in 2015.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Those aren't mutually exclusive propositions when you're talking about an employer as large and diffused as government. Even if you limit it to state governments you could have unionized employees with crappy pay/benefits, but too many of them due to union rules limiting who/how terminations can be done and the resulting unneeded headcount putting a strain on state finances.

Never mind that some unions are more equal than others. Police, fireman, and prison guard unions have a crap ton more pull in terms of getting what they want than say a union representing janitors or bus drivers.

 

[berzerker60]

Basically, Americans have the historical memory of a goldfish.

What do you mean, vaccines are important? Measles can't be harmful, I never see measles cases anywhere!

What do you mean, unions are important? Horrendous workplace conditions for no money can't happen, I don't see those at my current job!

 

[Matt1970]

$22 to answer phones? in the 90's? Crikes no wonder Americans are pissed busting their backs over $7.25 in 2015.

Yep. I remember her coming by my shop while they were striking bitching about how it was so unfair. I told her she was out of her mind.

 

[Matt1970]

Basically, Americans have the historical memory of a goldfish.

What do you mean, vaccines are important? Measles can't be harmful, I never see measles cases anywhere!

What do you mean, unions are important? Horrendous workplace conditions for no money can't happen, I don't see those at my current job!

My mom who is way more conservative than I am loved her nurses union. They stepped in many a time when there were disputes with head nurses and whatnot.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Because unions fight against discrimination and unfair treatment - Righties want to inflict discrimination and unfair treatment,.. I mean, be realists.

 

[Matt1970]

Because unions fight against discrimination and unfair treatment - Righties want to inflict discrimination and unfair treatment,.. I mean, be realists.

You really are starting to become one of the bigger hacks around here.

 

[OverVolt]

You really are starting to become one of the bigger hacks around here.

Yea in light of the pendulum swinging back a little to the conservatives (It tends to swing back and forth over time, whichever party is the most popular) you'd expect the truly die hard democrats to go off the deep end. So.......

Nailed it!

 

[Matt1970]

Yea in light of the pendulum swinging back a little to the conservatives (It tends to swing back and forth over time, whichever party is the most popular) you'd expect the truly die hard democrats to go off the deep end. So.......

Nailed it!

This guy goes beyond what I would consider a die hard democrat. When the pendulum swings back towards his side, which is will do in the future, he will be leading the charge, just like in 2008, claiming the GOP is all done. A die hard democrat would acknowledge his party made quite a few mistakes in the past few years. A hack like him will keep finding a way to blame the Repubs for it or at least try and make them look worse.

 

[nickqt]

This guy goes beyond what I would consider a die hard democrat. When the pendulum swings back towards his side, which is will do in the future, he will be leading the charge, just like in 2008, claiming the GOP is all done. A die hard democrat would acknowledge his party made quite a few mistakes in the past few years. A hack like him will keep finding a way to blame the Repubs for it or at least try and make them look worse.

The Democratic party is corrupt and in the pocket of big money.

It's just that the other major political party is made up of raving lunatics.

 

[cubby1223]

The rich have unions representing thier needs in congress yet regular middle and lower class Americans are anti Union for themselves. How the heck did this happen.

Why would you be against having representation in congress yet be okay with the rich having representation.

In all these threads the basis is always an unquestioned assumption that today's unions benefit the worker.

 

[senseamp]

Regular Americans don't want to maximize their negotiating leverage through collective bargaining. They believe in negotiating with multi-billlion dollar corporations individually, and then complaining that they are underpaid. It's their choice, and we should respect it.

 

[Exterous]

Union mismanagement in the 80's-90's instilled some doubt in large unions. Latching on to this, the wealthy have been able to bust up a lot of unions with propaganda.

Its not all propaganda - many unions aren't doing themselves any favors. There are some big names that don't seem to realize they are in the midst of an image war. Its pretty easy in SE Michigan to see evidence of this. Some of the UAW stories....

 

[sportage]

Today we have a lot of older people scraping by on Social security, pensions, and thus qualifying for public assistance as well.
Makes you wonder about the kids of today, when they reach their 60's, 70's, 80's, what their life will be like?
Social Security, a pension, and maybe some food stamps tossed into the mix, that isn't exactly living the life of Riley, but without even that to count on?

No, I can't imagine the average life style of the current younger generation come 2065.
As if retirement will still be an option at all, that is.
For the kids now in their late teens, 50 years passes by like zip-a-dee-doo-dah.
Hell... JFK was shot 50 years ago, and most alive then can still remember that as if that were just yesterday.

You could pretend most teens will have their opportunities.
Opportunities for college, or specialized training, or even well paying factory jobs.
But the truth is, if you are serving food out of a drive thru window, or stocking shelves during the grave yard shift, truth is you'll probably still be doing that over the next 50 years of our life.
Unless you win the powerball lottery, or have a relative that can get you on at the factory, things look grim indeed.
Fifty years from now kids of today won't even remember what the term or concept of Social Security was all about. Other then references in history books.
And with the politicians hell bent on cutting education funding, and more so college assistance, where is that kid flipping burgers going to get tens of thousands of dollars needed for an education? College? Vocational school?
Unless you have a very rich daddy, forget about an education once high school is over.

Pigs can't fly, and there is no such thing as magic fairy dust.
And once Social Security as we know it has been dismantled, along with most all of todays public assistance. That assistance being concerned with education.
Exactly what kind of life do you expect todays typical 18 year old to look forward come 2065?
Forget about unions. Unions are already dead and buried, for the most part.
Along with that pension.

Life in America come 2065? I shutter to think...
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
.
.
.

 

[MongGrel]

The rich have unions representing thier needs in congress yet regular middle and lower class Americans are anti Union for themselves. How the heck did this happen.

Why would you be against having representation in congress yet be okay with the rich having representation.

Just have to put one in, WTF would the rich have unions ?

They are more concerned with busting them and always have been.

 

[MongGrel]

Regular Americans don't want to maximize their negotiating leverage through collective bargaining. They believe in negotiating with multi-billlion dollar corporations individually, and then complaining that they are underpaid. It's their choice, and we should respect it.

Bazinga.

 

[cubby1223]

Unions only work when the alternative sources of labor have additional overhead costs involved... the amount extra you earn in wages is slightly less than the overhead costs of alternative labor sources.

Guess what advancements in technology, communication, & travel have done to the overhead costs of foreign labor?

The union model of the past is severely broken in today's reality. And, sorry, the cause was not a bunch of rich people having a meeting declaring it so.

The world doesn't work by wishing you were rich and magically riches are bestowed upon you.


Obviously I would rather make more money than I do currently. But I also prefer to live within the confines of reality, rather than living in fantasy-land. You have to be aware of where your leverage is and is not in negotiations, because if you double-down where you have no leverage, you will fuck yourself over every time.

 

[pcgeek11]

Because of crap like this:

Longshoreman’s Union to Strike 29 West Coast Ports:

ILWU workers’ compensation package is believed to already be the most lucrative of any blue-collar in America. Full-time workers working 2,000 hours per year earn an average of $142,000 annually in wages and a benefits package that costs over $82,000 a worker. “Clerks” that work an average of 50 hours per week earn over $200,000. But “walking bosses,” the equivalent of warehouse foremen, can earn over $300,000.

The payroll for just 13,600 ILWU workers that man the West Coast ports was a stunning $1.4 billion in 2013.

With no signed union/management contract in place since July 1, 2014, the union told crews to “work safe.” The code words slowed container traffic by 50% in Seattle and Tacoma, a walk out by mid-shift in Oakland, and a sudden shortage of crane operators in Los Angeles and Long Beach. The ILWU dockworkers claim they just want a new six-year contract.

The 13,600 ILWU members employed by the Pacific Maritime Association have been working at ports along the West Coast without a contract since June 30, 2014. At the heart of the dispute is “work to rule,” a labor tactic in which dock workers are encouraged to legalistically follow every written company production rule to the extreme. Instead of working as teams, ILWU members operate individually with the rule book in their hands.

The result is cargo that used to take two days to leave the port has been taking about seven days. The National Retail Federation, the National Association of Manufacturers and the Chamber of Commerce claim that West Coast dockworkers seriously undermined the holiday shopping season.

Fuck the Union.

 

[OverVolt]

Today we have a lot of older people scraping by on Social security, pensions, and thus qualifying for public assistance as well.
Makes you wonder about the kids of today, when they reach their 60's, 70's, 80's, what their life will be like?
Social Security, a pension, and maybe some food stamps tossed into the mix, that isn't exactly living the life of Riley, but without even that to count on?

No, I can't imagine the average life style of the current younger generation come 2065.
As if retirement will still be an option at all, that is.
For the kids now in their late teens, 50 years passes by like zip-a-dee-doo-dah.
Hell... JFK was shot 50 years ago, and most alive then can still remember that as if that were just yesterday.

You could pretend most teens will have their opportunities.
Opportunities for college, or specialized training, or even well paying factory jobs.
But the truth is, if you are serving food out of a drive thru window, or stocking shelves during the grave yard shift, truth is you'll probably still be doing that over the next 50 years of our life.
Unless you win the powerball lottery, or have a relative that can get you on at the factory, things look grim indeed.
Fifty years from now kids of today won't even remember what the term or concept of Social Security was all about. Other then references in history books.
And with the politicians hell bent on cutting education funding, and more so college assistance, where is that kid flipping burgers going to get tens of thousands of dollars needed for an education? College? Vocational school?
Unless you have a very rich daddy, forget about an education once high school is over.

Pigs can't fly, and there is no such thing as magic fairy dust.
And once Social Security as we know it has been dismantled, along with most all of todays public assistance. That assistance being concerned with education.
Exactly what kind of life do you expect todays typical 18 year old to look forward come 2065?
Forget about unions. Unions are already dead and buried, for the most part.
Along with that pension.

Life in America come 2065? I shutter to think...
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
.
.
.

Bazinga!

Things change. I'm predicting 2026 or so to be pretty good years. Nobody saw exactly the way things would play out in current day from 50 years ago. Nobody saw facebook, home computers, cellphones, etc. It is literally impossible to have a generation of grocery store stockers working into their 50's 50 years from now. Why? They are leeching off the wealth of the baby boomers today and the boomers will be long gone by then. The baby boomers are sitting on a huge pile of amassed wealth. Real estate, land, 401k's, etc. Thats the big question. Who gets wiped out from the excess of the last couple decades, and what will the consequences be? Boomers or millennials and gen X? Whose the hammer going to drop on? Its still in the air.

 

[ivwshane]

Unions suck but in this corporate climate they are very much needed, I just don't think they are needed in their current form. All unions should be at will membership and striking should be totally volunteer. Basically unions should earn not only their pay but their members trust and respect. The union leaders should also have a seat on the board in order to be part of the decisions that affects it's workers (that's how germany does it).

However, I'd trade unions for higher taxes (that is a higher effective rate) on corporate profits along with the banning of corporate stock buybacks.

 

[Newell Steamer]

This guy goes beyond what I would consider a die hard democrat. When the pendulum swings back towards his side, which is will do in the future, he will be leading the charge, just like in 2008, claiming the GOP is all done. A die hard democrat would acknowledge his party made quite a few mistakes in the past few years. A hack like him will keep finding a way to blame the Repubs for it or at least try and make them look worse.

Nope.

I've made quite a few comments on how intelligent & successful conservatives are.

And, I am sure you've read said comments, but, you've chosen to just ignore them and label me as something you want me to be; wrong. Because you know I am correct.

It must hurt that you can't let go of your fears - and even more so when someone calls them out. But, that's your problem, not mine.

"Countering" with NU-UH and how much of a moron I am is all you've got. And, if it makes you feel better, you just go with that - because you have to live in your pile of misery, not me.

 

[Blanky]

Many have been lied to and are too ignorant to know what is good for them. Look at all the poor and middle class who eagerly defend the rich when there is talk about raising their taxes. People still believe in trickle down and they still believe in the lie that one day they may also make $300k/year.

 

[Sonikku]

All I hear about unions is that they're used by people who are greedy.

 

[Subyman]

Just have to put one in, WTF would the rich have unions ?

They are more concerned with busting them and always have been.

Uhm, he's not being literal. Rich have power, influence, lobbyist, etc which are their "union."