The rich have unions, so why Are regular Americans against unions for themselves.

[Hugo Drax]

The rich have unions representing thier needs in congress yet regular middle and lower class Americans are anti Union for themselves. How the heck did this happen.

Why would you be against having representation in congress yet be okay with the rich having representation.

 

[Subyman]

Union mismanagement in the 80's-90's instilled some doubt in large unions. Latching on to this, the wealthy have been able to bust up a lot of unions with propaganda. Some actually believe that unless it is a dangerous job, no collective representation is needed. While the stakes aren't as high as getting your leg severed in rusty equipment, collective bargaining for fair wages, fair healthcare, lower stress environment, and equality in the workplace are very important to most people.

 

[zephyrprime]

The rich do not have unions. Monopolies are the equivalent of unions for the rich. The rich do have lobbyists and bullshit think tanks. These things should be banned. The regular people should create their own bullshit think tanks as well.

 

[Smoblikat]

Because I dont have a lot of money. And if my union decides its time to go on strike for a month just for fun, I still need to eat.

Plus, I make all of my own decisions, I dont want some company telling me what to do.

 

[Subyman]

Because I dont have a lot of money. And if my union decides its time to go on strike for a month just for fun, I still need to eat.

Plus, I make all of my own decisions, I dont want some company telling me what to do.

Most unions have strike pay.

 

[DCal430]

The rich have unions representing thier needs in congress yet regular middle and lower class Americans are anti Union for themselves. How the heck did this happen.

Why would you be against having representation in congress yet be okay with the rich having representation.

Unions don't care about members. Unions here lack open and democratic elections. I shouldn't be forced to give to unions political coffers against my will.

 

[sm625]

It's called propaganda. The rich spend billions disseminating it. It has been a great investment. Very few people can even think outside the reference framework of the wealthy. Every philosophical issue is framed in such a way that the question of wealth inequality is never broached. It simply must be accepted without question that the richest 0.1% own more wealth than the bottom 80%. And really, since the bottom 80% cannot reason their way past this and keep voting for Obomney after Obomney, then they really deserve to have nothing.

 

[glenn1]

I don't care if other people join unions but as a mid-career salaried professional I'd rather compete with my peers on my own merits so my salary and benefits can reflect my contributions. Who knows if I'd feel differently working in a different field but I can't imagine so.

 

[Strk]

Unions don't care about members. Unions here lack open and democratic elections. I shouldn't be forced to give to unions political coffers against my will.

While I don't disagree that unions as a whole don't care about its members. It's not that corporations as a whole are any different. However, at the end of the day, I pay a little over $16 a week and pay nothing for my insurance, have no deductibles, vision, dental, life insurance and my base pay isn't bad either.

 

[DCal430]

While I don't disagree that unions as a whole don't care about its members. It's not that corporations as a whole are any different. However, at the end of the day, I pay a little over $16 a week and pay nothing for my insurance, have no deductibles, vision, dental, life insurance and my base pay isn't bad either.

In the end I pay $50 a month plus I pay another $170 a month for health, this is for 1 person. Plus tons more for vision and dental. I get no life insurance, and shitty disability benefits. The union has done nothing for us, except take our money for political reasons.

 

[Subyman]

In the end I pay $50 a month plus I pay another $170 a month for health, this is for 1 person. Plus tons more for vision and dental. I get no life insurance, and shitty disability benefits. The union has done nothing for us, except take our money for political reasons.

What field do you work in?

 

[DCal430]

What field do you work in?

Government

 

[DCal430]

In the government non-union members, mostly managers and supervisors, have tons more benefits than people who are represented. In the government the more union representation you have, the fewer benefits you get.

Even non-managers and supervisors who are also not represented due the nature of their sensitive work, have far more benefits than any union member. Much more leave benefits, tons better health benefits, good life insurance, great disability benefits, and family planning benefits. All of these are denied to represented workers of the government here.

 

[DrPizza]

Government

And, you don't have a pension??

 

[DCal430]

And, you don't have a pension??

Yes I do, but so do non-union government workers.

Once my union decided it was going to take $50 a month of my check to give to political candidates against my wishes, I could no longer support them, or any union. Unions pay big money to stop any changes to law to prevent them from taking political money without permission. This is on top of the so called fair-share of $50 a month.

 

[BoberFett]

It's called propaganda. The rich spend billions disseminating it. It has been a great investment. Very few people can even think outside the reference framework of the wealthy. Every philosophical issue is framed in such a way that the question of wealth inequality is never broached. It simply must be accepted without question that the richest 0.1% own more wealth than the bottom 80%. And really, since the bottom 80% cannot reason their way past this and keep voting for Obomney after Obomney, then they really deserve to have nothing.

What does wealth have to do with anything?

 

[boomerang]

What, money gets you power and influence? What kind of shit is this? When did this come about?

 

[fskimospy]

In the government non-union members, mostly managers and supervisors, have tons more benefits than people who are represented. In the government the more union representation you have, the fewer benefits you get.

Even non-managers and supervisors who are also not represented due the nature of their sensitive work, have far more benefits than any union member. Much more leave benefits, tons better health benefits, good life insurance, great disability benefits, and family planning benefits. All of these are denied to represented workers of the government here.

So wait, are the government sector unions sucking the state dry or are their members screwed by crappy pay and benefits?

In many government agencies managerial employees have their salaries and benefits based in significant part on what is negotiated by the union workers they manage. I know that's how it is in NYC. So yes, they will always make more, but that's because their positions are higher.

 

[DCal430]

So wait, are the government sector unions sucking the state dry or are their members screwed by crappy pay and benefits?

In many government agencies managerial employees have their salaries and benefits based in significant part on what is negotiated by the union workers they manage. I know that's how it is in NYC. So yes, they will always make more, but that's because their positions are higher.

In California it is different, all non-union members, have the same benefits. It isn't related to who they manage, and many non-union members don't supervise or manage anyone.

 

[fskimospy]

In California it is different, all non-union members, have the same benefits. It isn't related to who they manage, and many non-union members don't supervise or manage anyone.

I feel that there's a pretty good probability that what those non-union members get is at least in part based on what the unions negotiate. Basically the unions set the bar and the state/city/whoever generally feels compelled to meet it for all employees.

I certainly can't speak for your situation but it seems unlikely that groups of people bargaining together are unable to strike a better deal than individuals with no bargaining power whatsoever.

 

[OverVolt]

Because stupid

 

[Spungo]

Americans have been soured on unions since the Steel Strike of 1959. It was a major kick in the balls to get corporate America to start outsourcing.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Most unions have strike pay.

They do have strike pay but all the guys I know that have been on strike it surely isn't as much as a minimum wage worker make for a 40 hour week. Per the Teamster's site.

http://teamster.org/about/frequently-asked-questions-faq#faq16

What is strike pay and how much would I receive?

When strikers stop working, they do not receive their normal paychecks, but they will receive some money from the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Strike Fund. Many local unions also maintain their own strike funds to help their workers through difficult times. Local strike benefits are determined by the local. Strike benefits from the International Union are based on the following formula:
If you earn less than $11 per hour, you will receive between $75 and $110 per week. For all other members, strike pay is equivalent to four times your monthly dues amount per week. For example, if your monthly dues payment is $70, you will receive $280 per week (70 x 4 = 280).

 

[glenn1]

So wait, are the government sector unions sucking the state dry or are their members screwed by crappy pay and benefits?

Those aren't mutually exclusive propositions when you're talking about an employer as large and diffused as government. Even if you limit it to state governments you could have unionized employees with crappy pay/benefits, but too many of them due to union rules limiting who/how terminations can be done and the resulting unneeded headcount putting a strain on state finances.

 

[Matt1970]

I have a friend who worked for Verizon in the late 90's making $22/hr to answer phones. They went on strike for more money. She was shocked after the strike they downsized her whole department and she has been forced to work odd jobs for around $9-$11/hr