The rich are getting richer

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aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: ntdz
That's life, there is nothing you can do about it.
That's just because most people are idiots, and believe everything they are told and taught. Even I didn't really think for myself for quite awhile. Basically when I faced a wasting death for the second time.

In crazy states of consciousness by will alone (not even sapho!),
Cerbie (now I just need a Mac, and I'll be set!)
What was the wasting death? A Mac and you'll be happy? :)
Lyme disease, allergies (related--born with Bb). I lost my ability to be awake evn 12 hours a day, and literally could not read. Worse than any point before. I was also clearly suffering adrenaline exhaustion. Going down the path of my relatives quicker than any previously, I had a near bedridden life to lead, until I croaked with a heart attack one day. Or I could live assisted for decades, and just wait for organs to start giving out.

I had to quit high school due to a similar experience, but not quite as bad. That time, however, I only questioned the world outside of myself. This time, I questioned behaviors, thoughts, and goals of my own; along with fears and insecurities. If you haven't questioned why you want a thing, need a thing, or do a thing, for every choice you make, you have not truly thought for yourself. You might think on your own, but not thinking or acting for your own wellbeing.

The Mac part just being a bit of a joke. I've gotten rather tired of fixing up PCs lately, even my own.

how are you doing now with the allergies and lyme disease?
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: ntdz
That's life, there is nothing you can do about it.
That's just because most people are idiots, and believe everything they are told and taught. Even I didn't really think for myself for quite awhile. Basically when I faced a wasting death for the second time.

In crazy states of consciousness by will alone (not even sapho!),
Cerbie (now I just need a Mac, and I'll be set!)
What was the wasting death? A Mac and you'll be happy? :)
Lyme disease, allergies (related--born with Bb). I lost my ability to be awake evn 12 hours a day, and literally could not read. Worse than any point before. I was also clearly suffering adrenaline exhaustion. Going down the path of my relatives quicker than any previously, I had a near bedridden life to lead, until I croaked with a heart attack one day. Or I could live assisted for decades, and just wait for organs to start giving out.

I had to quit high school due to a similar experience, but not quite as bad. That time, however, I only questioned the world outside of myself. This time, I questioned behaviors, thoughts, and goals of my own; along with fears and insecurities. If you haven't questioned why you want a thing, need a thing, or do a thing, for every choice you make, you have not truly thought for yourself. You might think on your own, but not thinking or acting for your own wellbeing.

The Mac part just being a bit of a joke. I've gotten rather tired of fixing up PCs lately, even my own.
how are you doing now with the allergies and lyme disease?
Mostly good. I still can't control my creative process, so have to drop lit electives. However, my mind is opening itself up, and I am gaining awareness; some of it not exactly heart-warming. About everything one would expect if I were taking some good drugs--except that I'm only on Zyrtec :D.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel1113

Wealth redistribution hasn't worked and will never work. Plus, it goes against every ecnomic ideal that the US stands for. I don't need the government to tell me where to donate my money, nor does anyone else.

Bahahahahaha

Great job SuperTool and guys, you got a Republican to admit Trcikle Down Economics is 110% Bullsh!t. :shocked:

:confused:

I'm not a Republican. Not that it matters to you.

You're right, I should've clarified, Supporter of Republican Agenda.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: PatboyX
what the hell is all this "you hate rich people" and "you hate workers" BS?
i didnt realize sean hannity was a member of ATPN.

Are you kidding, while have no proof the Talk show hosts themselves have visited I am sure their staff has and does. Way too many coincidental exact (wording and everything) of topics and the way they are brought up that they are not looking.

In any case very evident that many of the folks that have been "Hannitized" frequent here all the time. Have to feel sorry for them.
 

wchou

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,137
0
0
Sucks to be poor doesn't it??? Well figure away out of this unfair taxation system that steals from the poor to make the rich richer goddamnit!!!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: wchou
Sucks to be poor doesn't it??? Well figure away out of this unfair taxation system that steals from the poor to make the rich richer goddamnit!!!

Revolution is the only answer.

Just ask the ghosts of any of the original Colonists 229 years ago.

 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Article

That can't be right, am i the only one that believes that everyone should have a fair chance?
That shows your current system doesn't work as it is intended.

I guess you must not be one of the rich.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Increasing freedom from government is the only way to help improve standards of living, because ultimately it is only the free market which can truly improve living standards. And of course it is the government which is the greatest impediment to technological progress in the free market.

There is no such thing as a "free market". It is a fiction. No market can be "free", because the market itself is an "intervention" (and invention) by man. The rules for a market are established by the stake-holders. It is entirely reasonable for "the people" (via the government) to establish market rules that produce a desired outcome. Some people, such as yourself, want rules that allow the richest, most greedy people to accumlate vast sums of money, unfettered by petty concerns of environmental protection, decent treatment of employees, and so on. Others (the majority of the population, I believe) want market rules that allow trade to occur while ensuring our environment is not destroyed, workers are not exploited in ways perceived to be immoral or undesirable, etc. There is no convincing argument that the type of market you want is any more "free" than any other type of market, nor is there a convincing argument that your desired set of market rules are somehow more virtuous or moral than say a set of market rules that take into consideration environmental protection, worker protection, taxation of income for the betterment of the community, etc.

Oh there isn't? Try reading the works of Ludwig von Mises, Hayek and Rothbard. You can start here: mises.org

I'm not even remotely convinced.

In that case why don't you just advocate a total communist state? Or perhaps that is what you are advocating, but I doubt it:

All people, however fanatical they may be in their zeal to disparage and to fight capitalism, implicitly pay homage to it by passionately clamoring for the products it turns out.

- Ludwig von Mises

It is much more likely that you are a hypocrit of one of the highest orders.

I advocate strong safe guards against the worst excesses of capitalism. I support strong labor protection laws, strong environmental protection laws, and a progressive tax system where the wealthiest citizens are required to contribute a greater portion of their income back into the community. Such a system is not "socialism" or "communism", by the way.

It absolutely is socialism.

My question to you is, even assuming that those are good things to do, which they aren't, they are actually extremely counterproductive, what are you going to do about the worst excesses of government? Because under your system the government would have virtually all control of its citizenry. Oh wait, I forgot, *shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,* we are supposed to keep that aspect of your scheme on the down low, and assume that the government is a benevolent old grandfather.

If the government can impose labor protection laws, strong environmental protection laws, i.e. control all aspects of everyone's business and know everything about everyone's private financial life with progressive income tax system, what else is there that it can't do? You are just subsituting an imperfect system with a centralized system of serfdom where a select group of "law"makers control a group of men with guns who are sent out if their edicts are disobeyed.

Decades ago a number of leftists recognized this fact and this fatal flaw of totalitarian leftism, and they thought up another system that they believed avoided this problem. Actually, they thought up another system in which they believed no private property would exist at all. The system they thought up was anarcho-communism. They believed that a social system without government would be a communist one because they beleived that it is the government that allows private property to exist in the first place. Unfortunately, the economics of their solution is complete nonesense.

The ideas that you are advocating come largely from a very old doctrine called Marxism. Marxism has been debunked up down left and right. There are plenty of materials on mises.org which will explain the fallacies of Marxism in detail.
 

wchou

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,137
0
0
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Article

That can't be right, am i the only one that believes that everyone should have a fair chance?
That shows your current system doesn't work as it is intended.

I guess you must not be one of the rich.
Nothing in life is fair and so we were taught like that in public schools. Teachers help to brainwash kids and keep the system going indefinitely.
Even thought I'd been praised as quite intelligent from quite a few people, I am unable to voice any opinions in politics due to no rich buddies
When a few gifted people try to voice their opinions, they are quickly labeled as left wing conspirator, unpatriotic and should stfu
Apes hang around each other for support, that's how we are still today
Evolution is still in progress, I hope things get better as people slowly become aware of how the poor will always be poor, just like walmart's marketing practice " low price, always"


 

wchou

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,137
0
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Zorrander
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I just checked my 2003 Tax Return. I paid 9.3% of my adjusted gross income in Federal Tax.

That's lower than mine. :)

Having two kids helps.
Thanks for bringing them into this world to be enslaved by the rich and all powerful
I rather born rich then born poor
They have everything better then a peasant who's only right is to be obedient to their ruler and to work as hard a possible to to try to make more money but are only feeding the upper class who's job is to boss you everyday in and out.
Peasants aka peons have so many kids, I just don't get. They must enjoy working for the rich to get richer.
It's like their competing to see who can have more kids and out produce others
What is the point? They lack title, they lack nobility and their IQ leaves somewhat to be desired :frown:




 

smc13

Senior member
Jan 5, 2005
606
0
0
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Article

That can't be right, am i the only one that believes that everyone should have a fair chance?
That shows your current system doesn't work as it is intended.

I guess you must not be one of the rich.
Nothing in life is fair and so we were taught like that in public schools. Teachers help to brainwash kids and keep the system going indefinitely.
Even thought I'd been praised as quite intelligent from quite a few people, I am unable to voice any opinions in politics due to no rich buddies
When a few gifted people try to voice their opinions, they are quickly labeled as left wing conspirator, unpatriotic and should stfu
Apes hang around each other for support, that's how we are still today
Evolution is still in progress, I hope things get better as people slowly become aware of how the poor will always be poor, just like walmart's marketing practice " low price, always"

Is english not your native language? How can you state that you are unable to voice any political opinions while you are stating a political opinion?
 

gaidensensei

Banned
May 31, 2003
2,851
2
81
I actually did a research on this a few days ago for my class, I am an undergraduate in sociology at UC Irvine.

one of the main factors of the rich getting richer are racial orientation and stereotypes, along with gender.

The Gini coefficient method is a way used to calculate the gap between the richest and the poorest working class. This information is calculated from the census yearly I believe.

Anyways onto the mainpoint of the topic - i'll list a few to what I think causes it.

Certainly and obviously there are stereotypes on what gender should be doing what job - such as secretaries for females, CEO and other dominant roles for males, etc.

But another great factor are the racial stereotypes. You have what jobs are commonly unsaid but known for minorities like African-Americans, Hispanics. Then you have high occupations like presidential position usually seeing that it is occupied by whites. we have stuff like Asian american parents stressing their kids to take certain majors at school like computer programming, EE, biology, medical, ETC. Obviously these jobs do not require any sort of racial bias, it's about what you're capable of doing, so minorities like these generally know it's a safer occupation to pursue.

then we have stuff like people being born rich and poor. The rich can continue to do whatever they need, but take a look at the poor people, who aren't given proper chance to be able to have a potential future. stuff like kids being dragged into gangs because of their need for money, or where we have impacting things like African Americans being stereotyped as 'bad examples and failures of the American Dream' stuff, then some start believing it was this way and blind their futures.


If you look at a country like Japan, where high economic prosperity is evident - and that it is continuing strong, you would want to compare it to the US and try to figure out to why such a small island overwhelms a big state. And for that one major factor, is the race there. There are relatively little minorities in comparison to the US - where 6% are asian, 12% hispanic, 13% african american, 1% american indian, and 72% white. These numbers are from t he 2000 census.

thus it's safe to say that with less racial segregation in Japan - the middle class accounts for about 90% of the population, is the reason to why there is relatively little income inequality at work.

it is a very long issue and has many other subcategories that are related to it.

how can we fix this though, for one thing I think is intermarriage. When you see others marry a racial group completely different to their own, you subconciously would probably see it as an indicator to how far apart these racial groups could be. Then we have people in the future who are more likely to intermarry due to influences like at the present time. And when we see that each race is perfectly capable of doing whatever manner given proper fashion, less stereotypes starts building out on race, and then jobs start considering everyone as equal. that will be one step towards getting income being distributed evenly.

anyways i've rambled too much I think.
 

Emultra

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2002
1,166
0
0
By "fair" you mean the forceful extraction of legitimate property from innocent people.

I know you do.


 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: SuperTool
You said you had no problem with it. As for me, I know my share of trustfund babies who don't work much if at all. And I also know the tax rates for earned incomes and tax rates for just sitting around and getting dividends and capital gains. So don't go pulling wool over my eyes.

I don't have a problem with it, because it's fair.

As I've stated multiple times, unless you can prove that the average wealthy American consumes more public resources than the average American, there is no need for them to pay more in taxes (dollars, not percentage) than anyone else. That they already do is merely frosting on the cake.

God damn have you even taken basic Econ101?
American taxes, or any developed countries' tax rates have NEVER been on equal flat tax. That's stupid. It has always been on the "ability to pay" principle. A person who only makes $1000 a month can afford how much out of their pocket for taxes to make a decent living? $100? What if all of america paid $100 a month taxes, would that be enough? NO! If a person that makes $10,000 a month, would it make much as big of an impact to him if you took out $2000 of his salary? NO!

I never argued against a progressive tax. In fact, I support it. My point is simply that just because the wealthiest wage earners pay a lower percentage in federal income taxes does not mean that the system is unfair and that the wealthy need to be taxed more.
Oh great, now you contradict yourself. :roll:
"there is no need for them to pay more in taxes (dollars, not percentage) than anyone else" - how the f00k does that equal progressive tax? That's a FLAT TAX, if everyone pays the same in DOLLARS.


 

weezerdude

Senior member
Jul 24, 2000
338
0
71
Originally posted by: gaidensensei
I actually did a research on this a few days ago for my class, I am an undergraduate in sociology at UC Irvine.

one of the main factors of the rich getting richer are racial orientation and stereotypes, along with gender.

The Gini coefficient method is a way used to calculate the gap between the richest and the poorest working class. This information is calculated from the census yearly I believe.

Anyways onto the mainpoint of the topic - i'll list a few to what I think causes it.

Certainly and obviously there are stereotypes on what gender should be doing what job - such as secretaries for females, CEO and other dominant roles for males, etc.

But another great factor are the racial stereotypes. You have what jobs are commonly unsaid but known for minorities like African-Americans, Hispanics. Then you have high occupations like presidential position usually seeing that it is occupied by whites. we have stuff like Asian american parents stressing their kids to take certain majors at school like computer programming, EE, biology, medical, ETC. Obviously these jobs do not require any sort of racial bias, it's about what you're capable of doing, so minorities like these generally know it's a safer occupation to pursue.

then we have stuff like people being born rich and poor. The rich can continue to do whatever they need, but take a look at the poor people, who aren't given proper chance to be able to have a potential future. stuff like kids being dragged into gangs because of their need for money, or where we have impacting things like African Americans being stereotyped as 'bad examples and failures of the American Dream' stuff, then some start believing it was this way and blind their futures.


If you look at a country like Japan, where high economic prosperity is evident - and that it is continuing strong, you would want to compare it to the US and try to figure out to why such a small island overwhelms a big state. And for that one major factor, is the race there. There are relatively little minorities in comparison to the US - where 6% are asian, 12% hispanic, 13% african american, 1% american indian, and 72% white. These numbers are from t he 2000 census.

thus it's safe to say that with less racial segregation in Japan - the middle class accounts for about 90% of the population, is the reason to why there is relatively little income inequality at work.

it is a very long issue and has many other subcategories that are related to it.

how can we fix this though, for one thing I think is intermarriage. When you see others marry a racial group completely different to their own, you subconciously would probably see it as an indicator to how far apart these racial groups could be. Then we have people in the future who are more likely to intermarry due to influences like at the present time. And when we see that each race is perfectly capable of doing whatever manner given proper fashion, less stereotypes starts building out on race, and then jobs start considering everyone as equal. that will be one step towards getting income being distributed evenly.

anyways i've rambled too much I think.

good job mate, good luck on finals as well. I got gilmore and oconell teachings too :) Go Anteaters!!!
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
you mean the economic ideal created be the wealthy elites to legitimize thier greed?

In a free economy, people can be as greedy as they please. If that is what they choose to do, that is their business. Not yours, not mine, not the government's.

I didn't realize the free economy was created by "greedy elites."

There is no free economy.

All countries have economic systems that favor some groups over others.

Those who have the power to regulate the economic system, tend to balance it in favor of their greed. Therefore we see companies who benefit extensively from the public domain, like Disney, using their power to get laws passed to allow them to extend the length of their government granted monopolies on their public domain-derived creations. We also see large companies supporting new types of patents like business-method and software patents so they can raise the bar arbitrarily high to competition from new, smaller companies who don't have a portfolio of thousands of patents to cross license. And so forth...
 

Philippine Mango

Diamond Member
Oct 29, 2004
5,594
0
0
Originally posted by: wchou
If I have to choose between knowledge vs wealth, I'd take knowledge over any days of the week
wealth is just being a pig, and pigs care nothing else as long as it is fed with more then enough for it to know what to do with it kinda like a spoiled brat
if you lack knowledge you cannot be wealthy, if you are very knowledgeable wealth is not hard to accumulate
notice most rich people are very intelligent, they possess true wisdom that makes everyone else look like retards
Since they are better educated and learn at a faster pace I cansee why they can do what we called smart stealing and no one can do a damn about it


Loving money is one thing but knowing how to manipulate it is another thing.
Bankers rule, people drool ;)
:thumbsup:

To add to that, most people in america don't know the definition of saving so they end up wasting all the money they have and get into some serious debt which would explain WHY they are poor. If anybody has noticed, the people who win the lottery eventually become poor despite how much money they make. They were poor in the beginning because they're most likely not very smart or have poor spending habits. So when they recieve a great deal of money they spend it all and become poor then ask "why am I poor", morons... litterally! The rich are rich because they spend their money wisely and save so they can use it for other opportunities that may arise. So the poor will stay poor and the rich will stay rich, if your smart and your poor AND you know how/where to spend your money, then you shouldn't stay poor for very long...
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Zorrander
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I just checked my 2003 Tax Return. I paid 9.3% of my adjusted gross income in Federal Tax.

That's lower than mine. :)

Having two kids helps.
Thanks for bringing them into this world to be enslaved by the rich and all powerful
I rather born rich then born poor
They have everything better then a peasant who's only right is to be obedient to their ruler and to work as hard a possible to to try to make more money but are only feeding the upper class who's job is to boss you everyday in and out.
Peasants aka peons have so many kids, I just don't get. They must enjoy working for the rich to get richer.
It's like their competing to see who can have more kids and out produce others
What is the point? They lack title, they lack nobility and their IQ leaves somewhat to be desired :frown:


Can you tell a little about your background? I'm curious about why you think the way you do?

As for me, I am a Chinese-American in my early 40's. My parents came from China to the US for a better life. My parents have worked hard all their lives in restaurant jobs (6 12-hour days/week with only Mondays off) until finally they saved enough to buy their own small restaurant. They still work 6 days/week but now they are their own boss. They aren't rich by any means -- but are probably doing okay.

I'm very disturbed by people who think like you do because it seems like you are trying to force (and most socialist/communist systems can only exist by "forcing" others to conform) a system upon others that most people end up trying to flee (like my parents) if they are given the choice.
 

ciba

Senior member
Apr 27, 2004
812
0
71
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Of course those who are successful should be required to give back in to the community. (The community that enabled them to achieve success in the first place.)

Instead of giving back to the community because they want to?

I'll have to dig up the study, but ~8-10 months ago I saw one showing a correlation between the decline in charitable contributions and increases in taxes over the last ~100 years.

There is a view amonth the wealthy and semi-wealthy that because the government is taking so much, things are now the government's responsibility. Take, for example Carnegie's libraries. He provided funds for the construction of more than 2,500 libraries.

There is a lot more to the wage gap than class warfare. Certain lefties won't talk about the increase in class mobility in recent years. The evil rich are out to keep you down, but it is easier than ever to join "the club."
 

disastar

Member
Jun 26, 2004
30
0
0
Sorry, but you're wrong about class mobility.

Concerning charitable contributions and their tracking to the tax level, I think you are over-complicating a simple issue. As tax rates rise, people donate less cash and more consumed assets. That simple.

EDIT: link : http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/wages.html

Originally posted by: ciba
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Of course those who are successful should be required to give back in to the community. (The community that enabled them to achieve success in the first place.)

Instead of giving back to the community because they want to?

I'll have to dig up the study, but ~8-10 months ago I saw one showing a correlation between the decline in charitable contributions and increases in taxes over the last ~100 years.

There is a view amonth the wealthy and semi-wealthy that because the government is taking so much, things are now the government's responsibility. Take, for example Carnegie's libraries. He provided funds for the construction of more than 2,500 libraries.

There is a lot more to the wage gap than class warfare. Certain lefties won't talk about the increase in class mobility in recent years. The evil rich are out to keep you down, but it is easier than ever to join "the club."