The redistributionist behemoth

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will010507.php3

Liberals have a rendezvous with regret. Their largest achievement is today’s redistributionist government. But such government is inherently regressive: It tends to distribute power and money to the strong, including itself.

Government becomes big by having big ambitions for supplanting markets as society’s primary allocator of wealth and opportunity. Therefore it becomes a magnet for factions muscular enough, in money or numbers or both, to bend government to their advantage.

The left’s centuries-old mission is to increase social harmony by decreasing antagonisms arising from disparities of wealth — to decrease inequality by increasing government’s redistributive activities. Such government constantly expands under the unending, indeed intensifying, pressures to correct what it disapproves of — the distribution of wealth produced by consensual market activities. But as government presumes to dictate the correct distribution of social rewards, the maelstrom of contemporary politics demonstrates that social strife, not solidarity, is generated by government transfer payments to preferred groups.

This includes generational strife. Most transfer payments redistribute wealth from workers to nonworkers in the form of pensions and medical care for retirees. The welfare state’s primary purpose is to subsidize the last years of Americans’ lives, and the elderly are, after a lifetime of accumulation, better off than most Americans: In 2009, the net worth of households headed by adults ages 65 and older was a record 47 times that of households headed by adults under the age of 35 — a wealth gap that doubled just since 2005.

The equalizing effects of redistributive transfer payments are less today than in 1979, when households in the lowest income quintile received 54 percent of such payments. In 2007, they received 36 percent.

Because Social Security and Medicare are not means-tested, the share of transfer payments going to middle- and upper-income households tends to increase, for several reasons. The retirement age is essentially fixed, but people are living longer. And because the welfare state is so good to them, the elderly are unusually diligent voters and are especially apt to vote on the basis of protecting their benefits.

Beyond transfer payments, redistributionist government is itself governed by the law of dispersed costs and concentrated benefits: For example, sugar import quotas confer substantial wealth on a small cohort of producers already wealthy enough to work the political levers of redistributive government. The increased cost of sugar substantially penalizes consumers as a group but not so noticeably that individuals protest.

The tax code, government’s favorite instrument for distributing wealth to favored factions, has been tweaked about 4,500 times in 10 years. Generally, the beneficiaries of these changes are interests sufficiently strong and sophisticated to practice rent-seeking.
Not only does redistributionist government direct wealth upward; in asserting a right to do so, it siphons power into itself. A puzzling aspect of our politically contentious era is how little contention there is about the ethics of coercive redistribution by progressive taxation and other government “corrections” of social outcomes it considers unethical or unaesthetic.

This reticence, in an age in which political reticence is rare, reflects the difficulty of articulating principled defenses of these practices. They go undefended because they are generally popular with a public that misunderstands their net effects and because the practices are the political class’s vocation today. The big winners from these practices are that class and the interests adept at collaborating with it.

Government uses redistribution to correct social outcomes that offend it. But government rarely explains, or perhaps even recognizes, the reasoning by which it decides why particular outcomes of consensual market activities are incorrect. When taxes are levied not to efficiently fund government but to impose this or that notion of distributive justice, remember: Taxes are always coerced contributions to government, which is always the first, and often the principal, beneficiary of them.

Try a thought experiment suggested decades ago by University of Chicago law professors Walter Blum and Harry Kalven in their 1952 essay “The Uneasy Case for Progressive Taxation,” published in their university’s law review. Suppose society’s wealth trebled overnight without any change in the relative distribution among individuals. Would the unchanged inequality at higher levels of affluence decrease concern about inequality?
Surely not: The issue of inequality has become more salient as affluence has increased. Which suggests two conclusions:

People are less dissatisfied by what they lack than by what others have. And when government engages in redistribution in order to maximize the happiness of citizens who become more envious as they become more comfortable, government becomes increasingly frenzied and futile.

Spot on... and it's also a very good explanation of why entitlements will never truly be reformed in a way that ensures their long-term health.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Yes, that article is pretty much spot on. The left dreams of this giant powerful government to even out the playing field for everyone, but they just can't seem to grasp that a more powerful government will inevitably be used as a tool by powerful private interests to skew the playing field in their favor.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Yes, that article is pretty much spot on. The left dreams of this giant powerful government to even out the playing field for everyone, but they just can't seem to grasp that a more powerful government will inevitably be used as a tool by powerful private interests to skew the playing field in their favor.

I know you like to think your team is the best, but do you honestly believe that right wing politicians in the states intend to reduce the power of the government?
 

tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
Yes, that article is pretty much spot on. The left dreams of this giant powerful government to even out the playing field for everyone, but they just can't seem to grasp that a more powerful government will inevitably be used as a tool by powerful private interests to skew the playing field in their favor.

Of course, everyone that does not agree with you is thrown into one big bucket called 'the left' and you are on to their plan of world domination..good for you...
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
LOL. Instead of coming in to refute Poker's message you both come in and attack the messenger. Not that I am surprised since you cannot debate the subject at hand without any substance. Lolberals..:rolleyes:

To the OP. If you thought for one second that entitlements were actually there to fix something or help people you are already lost. Entitlements are there to appease the masses and ensure a consistent voting base, nothing more. It's a political tool.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I've been saying that the spending is regressive for a long time now (although the tax code is actually skewed in favor of the poor for the most part). In addition to social security and MC, there is the prison industrial complex, medicare part D, and the MIC.

If we ever have completely public health care, then it will hurt the poor and the middle class the most because they'll be taxed to pay for it and they'll have to suffer longer waiting times.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
To the OP. If you thought for one second that entitlements were actually there to fix something or help people you are already lost. Entitlements are there to appease the masses and ensure a consistent voting base, nothing more. It's a political tool.

I didn't think that, so no.. I'm not lost at all.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
I didn't think that, so no.. I'm not lost at all.

Well you brought up entitlement reform to ensure their long term health. I can only assume that you think entitlements are worthy of reform and that worthiness is drawn from their ability to accomplish something noble or good. They do nothing of the sort.

If you don't think this then your OP was curiously strange. If you don't think this then carry on, I'm not going to tell you anything new. Good show.
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
81
This is really what separates the Tea Party from OWS. Both sides are disgusted by the rampant crony capitalism but one side sees government as the problem and the other sees them as the solution.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
Well you brought up entitlement reform to ensure their long term health. I can only assume that you think entitlements are worthy of reform and that worthiness is drawn from their ability to accomplish something noble or good. They do nothing of the sort.

Reform that phases them out, yes. Their long-term health is best accomplished by a steady phase-out.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I don't really see how the article supports its thesis. First it talks in extremely broad generalities about "the left" and then suggests (correctly) that wealth disparity has increased in recent years. And then it does nothing to actually connect the two. Throwing two things together and HOPING it looks like one caused the other is a pretty lazy debating strategy.

Despite how much easier it makes the conservative argument, nobody on the left has EVER argued for non-specific "big government". Like conservatives, liberals want government to do certain things and not do other things. The size of government it takes to do these things might vary from ideology to ideology, but that's not the actual GOAL.

In other words, arguments about the size of government are a red herring. If the issue was REALLY government size, liberals would argue for increasing government in areas they wouldn't otherwise care about and conservatives would argue for decreasing government in areas they DO care about. But instances of that happening seem pretty rare, in my experience.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
LOL. Instead of coming in to refute Poker's message you both come in and attack the messenger. Not that I am surprised since you cannot debate the subject at hand without any substance. Lolberals..:rolleyes:

I think nearly every politician dreams of a giant powerful government, they just go about it in different ways.

Painting it as a left or a right issue just helps them along the way. I could have left out the 'your team' reference, but unless you're trying to pump up one side or another I don't see a reason to point out that a specific side of the aisle is clamoring for larger government.

The issues mentioned in the OP affect votes to both sides. Unless of course you believe the people that the article is referring to in the following are liberals diligently voting D.
Because Social Security and Medicare are not means-tested, the share of transfer payments going to middle- and upper-income households tends to increase, for several reasons. The retirement age is essentially fixed, but people are living longer. And because the welfare state is so good to them, the elderly are unusually diligent voters and are especially apt to vote on the basis of protecting their benefits.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Not only does redistributionist government direct wealth upward; in asserting a right to do so, it siphons power into itself.
Basically loliberal policy makes the rich richer and makes the government stronger.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,787
6,035
136
This is really what separates the Tea Party from OWS. Both sides are disgusted by the rampant crony capitalism but one side sees government as the problem and the other sees them as the solution.

Yeah, but those Tea Partiers sure like their SS, & Medicare.;)
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Reform that phases them out, yes. Their long-term health is best accomplished by a steady phase-out.

In that case we are definitely on the same page, even the same sentence and possibly the same word.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
The biggest player on the block is always going to have the leverage to redistribute wealth to whomever they want. And you better hope that's a government by and for the people, otherwise it's going to be a corporation by and for the board of directors. The problem we have today isn't big government, it's government largely unsupervised by voters bent by corporate spun reality. Our government can govern well, or it can govern badly, and the responsibility for that falls 100% on US. Blanket cries against "big" government, are quite frankly, just stupid.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
The biggest player on the block is always going to have the leverage to redistribute wealth to whomever they want. And you better hope that's a government by and for the people, otherwise it's going to be a corporation by and for the board of directors. The problem we have today isn't big government, it's government largely unsupervised by voters bent by corporate spun reality. Our government can govern well, or it can govern badly, and the responsibility for that falls 100% on US. Blanket cries against "big" government, are quite frankly, just stupid.

You've completely missed the point of the article mentioned in the OP. The article is as much an indictment of corporate welfare as much as it is one of social welfare.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
The biggest player on the block is always going to have the leverage to redistribute wealth to whomever they want. And you better hope that's a government by and for the people, otherwise it's going to be a corporation by and for the board of directors. The problem we have today isn't big government, it's government largely unsupervised by voters bent by corporate spun reality. Our government can govern well, or it can govern badly, and the responsibility for that falls 100% on US. Blanket cries against "big" government, are quite frankly, just stupid.

No. A corporation cannot redirect my wealth against my will unless it has the power of government.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Yes, that article is pretty much spot on. The left dreams of this giant powerful government to even out the playing field for everyone, but they just can't seem to grasp that a more powerful government will inevitably be used as a tool by powerful private interests to skew the playing field in their favor.

Word.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
You've completely missed the point of the article mentioned in the OP. The article is as much an indictment of corporate welfare as much as it is one of social welfare.

And it's a fallacy. Corporate welfare isn't needed if government goes away, because corporations aren't paying any taxes to get a break from, and they aren't being regulated either. There are a few exceptions, such as defense contractors, obviously. However, on the whole, arbitrarily cutting down the size of government across the board is the best form of "corporate welfare" imaginable.

- wolf
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
I don't really see how the article supports its thesis. First it talks in extremely broad generalities about "the left" and then suggests (correctly) that wealth disparity has increased in recent years. And then it does nothing to actually connect the two. Throwing two things together and HOPING it looks like one caused the other is a pretty lazy debating strategy.

Despite how much easier it makes the conservative argument, nobody on the left has EVER argued for non-specific "big government". Like conservatives, liberals want government to do certain things and not do other things. The size of government it takes to do these things might vary from ideology to ideology, but that's not the actual GOAL.

In other words, arguments about the size of government are a red herring. If the issue was REALLY government size, liberals would argue for increasing government in areas they wouldn't otherwise care about and conservatives would argue for decreasing government in areas they DO care about. But instances of that happening seem pretty rare, in my experience.

The biggest player on the block is always going to have the leverage to redistribute wealth to whomever they want. And you better hope that's a government by and for the people, otherwise it's going to be a corporation by and for the board of directors. The problem we have today isn't big government, it's government largely unsupervised by voters bent by corporate spun reality. Our government can govern well, or it can govern badly, and the responsibility for that falls 100% on US. Blanket cries against "big" government, are quite frankly, just stupid.


yup
 

tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
OK, let me summarize...'don't take our money, cuz its not gonna help you anyway you greedy, selfish jerk'