Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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Originally posted by: UNESC0
Originally posted by: Vic
We outnumber them by some 300-to-1, fool. I would gladly wager large odds that the US military could not defeat the people of the United States today. After all, how are they doing in Iraq?Originally posted by: UNESC0
It was a joke. Of course fires are a totally different issue and I'd be a complete idiot to see the two as analagous - unfortunately, it seems that the prevalent attitude is that the reasoning behind gun concealment (which is a different than ownership altogether) is for protection against "the elite and the criminal".
Ok. So when the elites would like to oppress the "common man" they'll just take out their guns and fight back? If enough people are armed then the government can't abuse its power? I fail to see how carrying a gun around can protect someone from the evil "elite" class looking to oppress joe-blow america.
Thanks for calling me a fool. Nice, it's great to see an elite member picking on someone new - glad to engage you in a rational and impartial discourse about concealment and carrying of handguns. I also don't perscribe to the belief that a military coup would be a possibility within a liberalized democracy such as the United States. To even think that the government requires civilians to be armed in case the military begins oppressing its citizens borders on paranoia. Pitting a military which spends $500 BILLION dollars on advanced weapons evey year against a bunch of rifle-toting civilians reminds me of that 100 Samurai v. 100 Knight thread, hypothesis and conjecture not even worth considering.
That you place no value on your property does not mean that others feel the same. You observe from a position of luxury. You can afford the sacrifice. Others may not be in a similar position. By denying them the right to protect their property, you oppress the poor who are least able to afford the loss.And when a criminal attacks a person, what are their goals? Rape, murder, theft? I'd gladly hand over my wallet to a criminal rather than blow his head off; and that's assuming he dosen't have a gun either - in that case drawing your own weapon would guarantee someone dying instead of being out $50 and inconvenienced by cancelling credit cards. Only a psychopath or serial rapist kills and rapes without provocation or circumstance. It is true that someone of that mental state would rape your girlfriend or kill you but like SampSon and Remy XO said, that's less likely than being hit by lightning (even less in a different country, ie. Canada).
Again, this is about protecting individual's property from robbery while not within their home. How could someone be out and about with items that they could not afford to sacrifice? Do you personally think there is no security in society for those who are living from paycheck to paycheck that they should spend thousands of dollars on arming themselves, ammunition, gun club fees, registration fees, practise costs that they are the "least able to afford" within society. Handguns and CC permits are not owned by the poor in society, its too expensive for someone living in poverty to own and operate a handgun for personal safety.
Need and likelihood are irrelevant. It's unlikely that a person will ever need to use a can of mace, shall we outlaw those too? It is not the burden of the people to prove their innocence. Your argument just doesn't hold water.[/quote]It just seems like having a gun on your person at all times goes far beyond normal and reasonable use for a weapon. This isn't about gun control or outlawing guns altogether - its about the need and likelihood of using a concealed weapon to prevent an otherwise inevitable occurrance.
That is your opinion, which evidently stems from paranoia and a pessimistic view of modern society. It is not the "freedom" to own guns for protection which is under question here in this thread, but rather the benefits that carrying a weapon bring to an individual and society at large. The burden of proof falls not to the actions of individuals but rather to those of criminals. By brandishing a weapon can one seriously think the outcome will be more beneficial than without one? Death preferable to loss of property?
Are you one to see society as Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness or Life, liberty, and the pursuit of property? Sounds like the latter to me.[/quote]
Ah... you can always tell when someone has no argument. They get all pissy and emotional and turn it into petty insults. I really don't see how you can take your arguments seriously. A military coup not possible? Tell that to those of other countries who thought they had a democracy but a military coup occurred anyway. Are you paranoid when you buy insurance? Then personal insults and assumptions about property to hide your elitism? Truly sad.
Face it, you have no logical explanation as to why you want to disarm the common people, except that you hate and distrust them. The paranoia is yours. You must disarm those who pose no threat to you.
