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Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: UNESC0

And I take it that these statistics are from peer-reviewed academic journals?;)

Gunowners.org, Texas State Rifle Association, and Women Against Gun Control are hardly sources that could ever be taken as non-biased. Are there any statistics from leading journals or government agencies?

No, that stats are from gun organizations, which also (some of them) reference books and surveys.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: SampSon
Here's a perfect example of why many people choose to carry and all you can do is attack the authors writing skills and atempt to argue that this never should have happened to him statistically.
This is when reading the whole thread enables you not to look like a jackass.
:roll:
Please.., I doubt you even read half way through the original post before you decided to spout off and question it's credibility. I mean it was so poorly written and all, it must be fake.

Carrying a gun on you is a power/security blanket/penis issue.

You just lost what little credibility you had.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
I read that on GlockTalk quite some time ago.

Yes, its fairly old.

Still a good read though. Have you read the one about the off-duty cop in McDonalds with his family? Some robber came in and walked straight to the back office while he was there (ordering at that time, I believe). He had his family and a bunch of customers leave and waited until the robber came out, at which point he engaged him. I remember his story because he places his emphasis on carrying spare ammo and how relieved he was that he was able to reload before approaching the downed suspect. I think about that every time I think about leaving without a spare mag (which, I admit, I still do on occasion...usually due to what I'm wearing).

Missed that one. I dont frequent GT, I dont own a pipebomb..err....Glock. ;)
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Missed that one. I dont frequent GT, I dont own a pipebomb..err....Glock. ;)

Technically I don't own one either. ;)

Thats true. Technically, *I* own the one you carry.
Gimme my gun back bitch.

:D
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Missed that one. I dont frequent GT, I dont own a pipebomb..err....Glock. ;)

Technically I don't own one either. ;)

Thats true. Technically, *I* own the one you carry.
Gimme my gun back bitch.

:D

I didn't know you paid municpal taxes in my city. In that case I'll scrape off a tiny fragment off the grip so you can have your refund. :p
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: UNESC0


Again, this is about protecting individual's property from robbery while not within their home. How could someone be out and about with items that they could not afford to sacrifice?

It's not just about personal property, it's about your life and the lives of those you care about. Remember in this specific example the gang members he shot were linked to previous rape abductions.

Do all of you guys saying it's really never neccessary for anyone to carry honestly think this guy would have been better off unarmed? I don't need to carry, but its a personal decision and some people live in more dangerous area than others. This same guy says that he has good reason to carry and mentions a previous time that he thwarted a would be robbery/car-jacking. Sounds to me like he lives in a dangerous part of town, and is justified in carrying.

Originally posted by: Remy XO

Ofcourse in a perfect society, everyone needs to own a firearm and have rights to use it when they feel threatened. Well if that was the case then yes, criminals will think twice about preying on people, but that's not the case. Furthermore, I am not agreeing that everyone shouldn't own a firearm, but the need to carry one everywhere they go. In cases where criminals never had the intention of using their firearm will use it if they feel threatened by another.

For your case to work, everyone in the country should carry a 9mm on their waist. Now that to me sounds ridiculous.

In a perfect society we wouldn't have any need for firearms since there would be no crime. I never said everyone needs to carry, just that some people do as this example shows. Also you never know if a criminal intends to use his gun or not, best to not to put your life at the mercy of a criminal though.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Missed that one. I dont frequent GT, I dont own a pipebomb..err....Glock. ;)

Technically I don't own one either. ;)

Thats true. Technically, *I* own the one you carry.
Gimme my gun back bitch.

:D

I didn't know you paid municpal taxes in my city. In that case I'll scrape off a tiny fragment off the grip so you can have your refund. :p

I've travelled all over this country. Got the tickets to prove it :p
I've probably made a "donation" to your city at some point. :D
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
I read that on GlockTalk quite some time ago.

Yes, its fairly old.

Still a good read though. Have you read the one about the off-duty cop in McDonalds with his family? Some robber came in and walked straight to the back office while he was there (ordering at that time, I believe). He had his family and a bunch of customers leave and waited until the robber came out, at which point he engaged him. I remember his story because he places his emphasis on carrying spare ammo and how relieved he was that he was able to reload before approaching the downed suspect. I think about that every time I think about leaving without a spare mag (which, I admit, I still do on occasion...usually due to what I'm wearing).

Missed that one. I dont frequent GT, I dont own a pipebomb..err....Glock. ;)


You guys have a link to the original thread? I know it was posted by roadrep back in 2003, but can't find the original thread.
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: Specop 007
I've travelled all over this country. Got the tickets to prove it :p
I've probably made a "donation" to your city at some point. :D

If you haven't yet, make sure you come up while I'm working. :evil:

Originally posted by: hscorpio
You guys have a link to the original thread? I know it was posted by roadrep back in 2003, but can't find the original thread.

I don't, sorry. It's been a LONG time since I've read it.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
I've travelled all over this country. Got the tickets to prove it :p
I've probably made a "donation" to your city at some point. :D

If you haven't yet, make sure you come up while I'm working. :evil:

Do you still wear your Kevlar?.....
:evil:
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: Specop 007
I've travelled all over this country. Got the tickets to prove it :p
I've probably made a "donation" to your city at some point. :D

If you haven't yet, make sure you come up while I'm working. :evil:

Do you still wear your Kevlar?.....
:evil:

I'd be a fool not to.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: hscorpio
Originally posted by: UNESC0
It was a joke. Of course fires are a totally different issue and I'd be a complete idiot to see the two as analagous - unfortunately, it seems that the prevalent attitude is that the reasoning behind gun concealment (which is a different than ownership altogether) is for protection against "the elite and the criminal".

Ok. So when the elites would like to oppress the "common man" they'll just take out their guns and fight back? If enough people are armed then the government can't abuse its power? I fail to see how carrying a gun around can protect someone from the evil "elite" class looking to oppress joe-blow america.

And when a criminal attacks a person, what are their goals? Rape, murder, theft? I'd gladly hand over my wallet to a criminal rather than blow his head off; and that's assuming he dosen't have a gun either - in that case drawing your own weapon would guarantee someone dying instead of being out $50 and inconvenienced by cancelling credit cards. Only a psychopath or serial rapist kills and rapes without provocation or circumstance. It is true that someone of that mental state would rape your girlfriend or kill you but like SampSon and Remy XO said, that's less likely than being hit by lightning (even less in a different country, ie. Canada)

It just seems like having a gun on your person at all times goes far beyond normal and reasonable use for a weapon. This isn't about gun control or outlawing guns altogether - its about the need and likelihood of using a concealed weapon to prevent an otherwise inevitable occurrance.



Did you miss the part about his girlfriend being there?

Also he drew his weapon and went to the 'low ready' meaning basically his gun was in hand but not aimed at attackers. Then he shouted for them to back off, but one of them drew a weapon at which point he engaged the attackers.

So your telling me you would rather have been robbed & beaten, and have your gf abducted & raped rather than defend yourself and shoot a criminal that had the choice to run but didn't?
Yes they would, and they want you to do the same. These are the ones that afree with P.A.T.R.I.O.T> and Executive Hijacking of DUE PROCESS. This "victim mentality is what is spiraling out of control. There will be no policeman to come to your rescue, only the coroner.
Police protect Business and The Social Elite. Every one else is on their own.

 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Police protect Business and The Social Elite. Every one else is on their own.

Still fighting for the people, eh Karl?
Who is Karl?
I'm just saying what I've witnessed over my 49+ years. Since YOU have a badge and gun, your opinion is going to be biased in favor of the propaganda. It is propaganda, because as ANY LEO will admit, you cannot patrol and protect everywhere, and since the upper ranks set policy, and these are POLITICAL positions, they protect the ones that pay for their election campaigns. The citizens problems are just a chore they have to deal with on their own. Why else would police depts all over the country REFUSE to investigate home burgularies?? Why do they only go after the "low hanging fruit"? Because it's easy, gets headlines, and makes an example to keep otherwise LAW ABIDING citizens in fear of the very people who are sworn to obey and enforce the laws themselves.
MINE, on the other hand, is tempered with a family history in LE and personal experiences with LEO's that have only those interests in mind. That and a reading of the handbook that is used to teach LEO's has given me the profound wariness of the sloganeering "to protect and serve..."
You never see a Social Elite member with a knee in his head, NO MATTER WHAT he has done. but a "brother" or "chicano" or "white trash" is always shown with his face in the pavement.
This is but a tip of the iceberg.

 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Police protect Business and The Social Elite. Every one else is on their own.

Still fighting for the people, eh Karl?
Who is Karl?
I'm just saying what I've witnessed over my 49+ years. Since YOU have a badge and gun, your opinion is going to be biased in favor of the propaganda. It is propaganda, because as ANY LEO will admit, you cannot patrol and protect everywhere, and since the upper ranks set policy, and these are POLITICAL positions, they protect the ones that pay for their election campaigns. The citizens problems are just a chore they have to deal with on their own. Why else would police depts all over the country REFUSE to investigate home burgularies?? Why do they only go after the "low hanging fruit"? Because it's easy, gets headlines, and makes an example to keep otherwise LAW ABIDING citizens in fear of the very people who are sworn to obey and enforce the laws themselves.
MINE, on the other hand, is tempered with a family history in LE and personal experiences with LEO's that have only those interests in mind. That and a reading of the handbook that is used to teach LEO's has given me the profound wariness of the sloganeering "to protect and serve..."
You never see a Social Elite member with a knee in his head, NO MATTER WHAT he has done. but a "brother" or "chicano" or "white trash" is always shown with his face in the pavement.
This is but a tip of the iceberg.

Different types of crime. Social Elites arent carrying illegal guns, raping, murdering and robbing. Low income people are.
Social Elites simply fudge the books.

Big difference. Granted, both are breaking the law but still.....
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
I'm just saying what I've witnessed over my 49+ years. Since YOU have a badge and gun, your opinion is going to be biased in favor of the propaganda. It is propaganda, because as ANY LEO will admit, you cannot patrol and protect everywhere, and since the upper ranks set policy, and these are POLITICAL positions, they protect the ones that pay for their election campaigns. The citizens problems are just a chore they have to deal with on their own. Why else would police depts all over the country REFUSE to investigate home burgularies?? Why do they only go after the "low hanging fruit"? Because it's easy, gets headlines, and makes an example to keep otherwise LAW ABIDING citizens in fear of the very people who are sworn to obey and enforce the laws themselves.
MINE, on the other hand, is tempered with a family history in LE and personal experiences with LEO's that have only those interests in mind. That and a reading of the handbook that is used to teach LEO's has given me the profound wariness of the sloganeering "to protect and serve..."
You never see a Social Elite member with a knee in his head, NO MATTER WHAT he has done. but a "brother" or "chicano" or "white trash" is always shown with his face in the pavement.
This is but a tip of the iceberg.

Why exactly would I want to be a slave to propaganda?

Why would we not investigate home burglaries? If you want to take the skeptics point of view you can still recognize that WE have homes and would seek to prevent those crimes.

What exactly is this "low hanging fruit" you're referring to?

I haven't seen a copy of this singular handbook you speak of. I've been trained throughout a variety of disciplines from a wide variety of sources.

I'm sure you're aware that the lower class has traditionally higher crime rates and that they're also the most common victims of crime. As such, it is rare to encounter a crime being committed by a member of the upper classes of society. In such a case where it does happen, those in the upper classes are less likely to resist physically. Feel free to argue as to why that is...perhaps because they assume they can rest on their political connections to get them off.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
[Different types of crime. Social Elites arent carrying illegal guns, raping, murdering and robbing. Low income people are.
Social Elites simply fudge the books.

Big difference. Granted, both are breaking the law but still.....
Class-ist rationalizing. Violent crime has been on the retreat for years, yet the media hypes it to continue the propaganda of "FEAR USA Inc.". ACTUALLY violent crime cuts across all demogaphic spectra, but is only hyped on the lower income brackets to continue the "myth" and thus perpetuate the stereotype.

If ALL citizens were allowed to carry concealed firearms, robberys and other violent crime would PLUMMET. However, burgularies of businesses would increase, because with no one in the store, it's easy pickin's and a store dummy isn't going to walk downstairs packing heat. Better that criminals be allowed to prey on the citizenry, as no one but the family cares if someone is hurt during a break in and loses his TV and car. On esmall insurance claim as opposed to a MASSIVE one from retail stores everywhere claiming from Smash and Dashes.


 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Class-ist rationalizing. Violent crime has been on the retreat for years, yet the media hypes it to continue the propaganda of "FEAR USA Inc.". ACTUALLY violent crime cuts across all demogaphic spectra, but is only hyped on the lower income brackets to continue the "myth" and thus perpetuate the stereotype.

If ALL citizens were allowed to carry concealed firearms, robberys and other violent crime would PLUMMET. However, burgularies of businesses would increase, because with no one in the store, it's easy pickin's and a store dummy isn't going to walk downstairs packing heat. Better that criminals be allowed to prey on the citizenry, as no one but the family cares if someone is hurt during a break in and loses his TV and car. One small insurance claim as opposed to a MASSIVE one from retail stores everywhere claiming from Smash and Dashes.

The lower class commits more crime than higher classes. That's how it is. They're also the most common victims of crime.

All citizens have the potential to do so in my state. Take an easy written test and ridiculously easy shooting test, pay the $40 fee, and there you go. Let me ask you this...if robbing businesses is so easy, why do criminals even bother robbing homes? Just go straight to the businesses now.
 

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: SampSon
Why don't people feel the need to carry a flashlight (though many do, still just an example), a case of extra batteries (all possible sizes, who knows what can happen right?), two full changes of clothing, 3 days worth of MRE rations, two full size spare tires, two extra cell phone batteries, enough fluids to refill all possible fluids in your car, waterproof matches (never know when you're going to need to start a fire for warmth), a compass, and a plethora of other items?
Most people don't even have an updated local map in their car at all times, yet, were worried about carrying fully loaded weapons. I think we have a little mix up in priorities here.

Most people are rarely (if ever) in a position where they would be seriously at risk by not being prepared in any of those ways.

The majority of people here are rarely without an internet connection, let alone food, heat, etc. Would we all be SOL if there was a sudden, catastrophic loss of infrastructure? Maybe. Personally I have enough faith in the robustness of our society that I don't feel the need to go to such lengths to be prepared.

Why then, you might ask, do I have a CC permit?

1) It requires relatively little inconvenience or hassle on my part. The application process in shall issue states is painless, & I don't see the physical carry as being that large a hurdle.
2) It protects me in one area that I absolutely cannot rely on anyone else in. There won't be anybody around when/if it happens, & by the time the police get there it will be long over.

For those who think I walk around in fear, don't kid yourself. I simply want the option of being armed.

Viper GTS
I was speaking more about the hypothetical situation of a car accident in a rural area or a sitaution where one is stranded for a period of time. Not an emergency situation such a the aftermath of a hurricane. Most people arn't ready for emergencies on the road. Most peoplr arn't prepared for many emergencies.

I am all for you being able to carry a weapon at all times.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that someone risk their life for possessions. I do think that society needs to recognize they are in the vast majority & use that to their advantage. Would I suggest reaching for a gun if someone already has one on you? Of course not. Am I going to be looking for the first possible chance to fight back? Of course.
Right, though many make it out to be like you're going to pull some rambo move while someone is trying to rob you or whatever. I personally would like to avoid all physical confrontation if possible.

I don't really see them as being that different. In fact, the seatbelt neatly fits me reasoning for concealed carry - Virtually no hassle to me (in fact I feel seriously off if I'm NOT wearing it), & it fills a void where nothing else really can.

Viper GTS
You run a much larger risk to your life on a daily basis by not wearing your seatbelt then you do not wearing your firearm. That is in the context in which you were speaking. The seatbelt is one of the first lines of defense in a car accident or other incident, a gun is not the first line of defence in an altercation with a person, in my opinion.

Well, if you consider firearms are used approx 2 million times, and accident injuries around around 2 million...Its not unreasonable to say you may end up using a pistol as much as a seatbelt.
It's not that reasonable to say that and it's using an angle on the numbers. There are only 2-3+ million accident injuries a year, but over 7 million accidents a year. A seatbelt probably comes into play on a vast majority of thoes 7+ million accidents. So I would say that a seatbelt is used much more than a handgun.

Fair nuff. If one is going to make the claim, one should back it up.

Gun facts
Gun facts
Gun facts

NHTSA data (pdf)
Good data, lots of it cites back to a handul of the same texts and studies, which im sure are credible. I do find it funny how sites that support something create a fact page and use small facts from all periods of time to support their view. Everyone does this of course, no discount on these particular sites.

Please.., I doubt you even read half way through the original post before you decided to spout off and question it's credibility. I mean it was so poorly written and all, it must be fake.
and
You just lost what little credibility you had.
I am one of the few people who actually reads the entire first post before I comment. You had no credibility in this thread to begin with since you attacked me after my first post and failing to read my second, and most likely any subsequent posts afterwards.
I honestly don't give a poop what you think about me or my opinion.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
True, it does cite back to a handful of studies but you have to be honest, its hard to get good data on this. The jmajor media networks do NOT want "We the people" to think of guns as a tool to protect oursevles as it would undermine their agenda. So any study at all which is even remotely progun will not be run on any major news networks, and as such any study to support gun ownership will be few and far between.
 

Originally posted by: Specop 007
True, it does cite back to a handful of studies but you have to be honest, its hard to get good data on this. The jmajor media networks do NOT want "We the people" to think of guns as a tool to protect oursevles as it would undermine their agenda. So any study at all which is even remotely progun will not be run on any major news networks, and as such any study to support gun ownership will be few and far between.
I'm not disagreeing with the data, or your ideal. I just wanted Remy XO and UNESC0 to stfu.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: bradruth
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Class-ist rationalizing. Violent crime has been on the retreat for years, yet the media hypes it to continue the propaganda of "FEAR USA Inc.". ACTUALLY violent crime cuts across all demogaphic spectra, but is only hyped on the lower income brackets to continue the "myth" and thus perpetuate the stereotype.

If ALL citizens were allowed to carry concealed firearms, robberys and other violent crime would PLUMMET. However, burgularies of businesses would increase, because with no one in the store, it's easy pickin's and a store dummy isn't going to walk downstairs packing heat. Better that criminals be allowed to prey on the citizenry, as no one but the family cares if someone is hurt during a break in and loses his TV and car. One small insurance claim as opposed to a MASSIVE one from retail stores everywhere claiming from Smash and Dashes.

The lower class commits more crime than higher classes. That's how it is. They're also the most common victims of crime.

All citizens have the potential to do so in my state. Take an easy written test and ridiculously easy shooting test, pay the $40 fee, and there you go. Let me ask you this...if robbing businesses is so easy, why do criminals even bother robbing homes? Just go straight to the businesses now.
You missed the point. I said that IF citizens were all allowed to carry CW's, THEN business burgulary would increase. The reason Business Burgulries ARE NOT as common as Home is because Police do not give home burgalries the same priority as Business Crime.
In Sacramento and San Francisco, you PHONE iN your HOME break in report. They do not allocate any manpower to any investigation. The same was true in Small Town South Carolina. If you're a business, you get an officer at the door and a detective to follow up. How is the economy or the public served by allocating resources in this fashion?
'm sure you're aware that the lower class has traditionally higher crime rates and that they're also the most common victims of crime. As such, it is rare to encounter a crime being committed by a member of the upper classes of society. In such a case where it does happen, those in the upper classes are less likely to resist physically. Feel free to argue as to why that is...perhaps because they assume they can rest on their political connections to get them off.
I submit that the head of ENRON's action were as violent to his former workers, (whose pensions were plundered) as a beat down and losing your wallet in a parking lot to a couple of thugs from daHood. Being BRoke and Homeless as a result of this abject theft is no kinder than a punch in the gut. Yet there is rarely a PUBLIC "perp walk" of these criminals. Where is the deterrant action in any of that? If you're Juan LowRider, you can expect a boot in the neck if you back talk a cop. But if you're the son or daughter of the city's monied elite, the Police Chief schedules your surrender away from tha cameras to avoid "embarrasment". The embarrassment is the Police Chief for Brown Noseing these assholes. It only reinforces the US vs THEM mentality.
Remember the BullSh1t one of the ATOT'rs here in Sac got last year when his Mustang was stolen? HE had to do all the investigation. When he found it, they even blew him off iirc.
I'll bet you a doughnut that the occurance of crime is not that much greater in any particular portion of the socio - economic strata, just that the REPORTING of said crime is greater on the lower end, as it plays into the stereotype that the media plays into and exaggerates both to sell column inches of ad space and to perpetuate the constant call for increased "protection " by L.E.O. which comes at the cost of increased spending of TAX dollars for Law enforcement, rather than increased money for better schools, more books, and more and better teachers. Those three things, by the way, have been shown to reduce crime more than any other social panacea.

Low Hanging Fruit = dumbasses who do crimes right in front of you, with little or no work required.

Why exactly would I want to be a slave to propaganda?
I'm not saying you would, but to avoid the stigma of not conforming to "Department Policy", or at the risk of being labeled "a trouble maker" you might cave in to peer pressure. Many in "Blue" have. Hence the infamous "Code of Silence" that permeates all Departments.
Why would we not investigate home burglaries? If you want to take the skeptics point of view you can still recognize that WE have homes and would seek to prevent those crimes.
Budget. That's the reason I was given by the Sac County Sheriffs dept. The reason MOST depts let officers drive their patrol cars home is to extend the "aura" of Blue in their neighborhood. This "arua" effect has the tendancy to make the petty thieves choose "low hanging fruit" of their own.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hatin', I'm just not buying the altruistic nonsense that is put out by LEO's. My brother takes just a little too much pleasure in giving a beating to a bad guy for my liking. Some of his fellow officers were schooling him how to mess someone up without leaving a mark. Sounds like a criminal conspiracy to me. But since they have a badge a gun and pick up a paycheck on Friday's, they're the good guys. Now what's wrong with that picture? Besides all of it?

That whole line of "All suspects are considered inocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that tags each episode of COPS is the worlds biggest "wink wink nudge nudge" ever.
At least have the decency to not insult our collective intellegiance.
 

bradruth

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
13,479
2
81
Originally posted by: AlienCraft
You missed the point. I said that IF citizens were all allowed to carry CW's, THEN business burgulary would increase. The reason Business Burgulries ARE NOT as common as Home is because Police do not give home burgalries the same priority as Business Crime.

In Sacramento and San Francisco, you PHONE iN your HOME break in report. They do not allocate any manpower to any investigation. The same was true in Small Town South Carolina. If you're a business, you get an officer at the door and a detective to follow up. How is the economy or the public served by allocating resources in this fashion?

I submit that the head of ENRON's action were as violent to his former workers, (whose pensions were plundered) as a beat down and losing your wallet in a parking lot to a couple of thugs from daHood. Being BRoke and Homeless as a result of this abject theft is no kinder than a punch in the gut. Yet there is rarely a PUBLIC "perp walk" of these criminals. Where is the deterrant action in any of that? If you're Juan LowRider, you can expect a boot in the neck if you back talk a cop. But if you're the son or daughter of the city's monied elite, the Police Chief schedules your surrender away from tha cameras to avoid "embarrasment". The embarrassment is the Police Chief for Brown Noseing these assholes. It only reinforces the US vs THEM mentality.

Remember the BullSh1t one of the ATOT'rs here in Sac got last year when his Mustang was stolen? HE had to do all the investigation. When he found it, they even blew him off iirc.

I'll bet you a doughnut that the occurance of crime is not that much greater in any particular portion of the socio - economic strata, just that the REPORTING of said crime is greater on the lower end, as it plays into the stereotype that the media plays into and exaggerates both to sell column inches of ad space and to perpetuate the constant call for increased "protection " by L.E.O. which comes at the cost of increased spending of TAX dollars for Law enforcement, rather than increased money for better schools, more books, and more and better teachers. Those three things, by the way, have been shown to reduce crime more than any other social panacea.

Low Hanging Fruit = dumbasses who do crimes right in front of you, with little or no work required.

I'm not saying you would, but to avoid the stigma of not conforming to "Department Policy", or at the risk of being labeled "a trouble maker" you might cave in to peer pressure. Many in "Blue" have. Hence the infamous "Code of Silence" that permeates all Departments.

Budget. That's the reason I was given by the Sac County Sheriffs dept. The reason MOST depts let officers drive their patrol cars home is to extend the "aura" of Blue in their neighborhood. This "arua" effect has the tendancy to make the petty thieves choose "low hanging fruit" of their own.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hatin', I'm just not buying the altruistic nonsense that is put out by LEO's. My brother takes just a little too much pleasure in giving a beating to a bad guy for my liking. Some of his fellow officers were schooling him how to mess someone up without leaving a mark. Sounds like a criminal conspiracy to me. But since they have a badge a gun and pick up a paycheck on Friday's, they're the good guys. Now what's wrong with that picture? Besides all of it?

That whole line of "All suspects are considered inocent until proven guilty in a court of law" that tags each episode of COPS is the worlds biggest "wink wink nudge nudge" ever.
At least have the decency to not insult our collective intellegiance.

The effect on crime in the event of nationwide CCW is mere speculation and holds no actual credence.

That's not how things are done here. Burglaries are felonies and are appropriated the necessary resources based on that fact alone, be it business or home.

I agree that white collar crimes are substantial, but to argue that they're actually violent is inflammatory. I'd be all for walking down to corporate HQ and hooking up the CEO in front of everyone and hauling him to jail like everyone else.

I don't remember that...sorry.

Why wouldn't the upper class report that crime? The higher crime rates include property crimes such as theft, and since the upper class is filled with greedy capitalist pigs, surely they'd report any losses immediately.

Why wouldn't we take care of crime that happens in front of us? You're not suggesting we let that go, are you? Wouldn't it just be reverse discrimination to leave that crime in order to solely investigate the upper classes?

I think you're a little confused about the code of silence. That applies for cops protecting cops, often against department policy or even the law.

I don't know how much that effect really exists, but if that's truly the intent I imagine the officer's are ordered to park their cars outside. The main reason I'd see for it is that the cars would be taken care of MUCH better and thus wouldn't have to be replaced nearly as often.

I've never once beaten a suspect, nor have I ever seen a coworker do so. No good can come of it, but a lot of bad can.

You can look at it that way, or you can look at it as a disclaimer. People in general seem to think that once a person is arrested they're guilty. I can't imagine how many times I've heard someone suggest the death penalty for an arrested murder/kidnapping/rape suspect after they see a small article in the paper.