That is a strawman imho idc and not fair. I was targeting the review not the man.
I understand and even respect the policy behind the review but as an enthusiast the review gave fewer answers than i expect, as noted by the poster above.
That is a strawman imho idc and not fair. I was targeting the review not the man.
I understand and even respect the policy behind the review but as an enthusiast the review gave fewer answers than i expect, as noted by the poster above.
Stumbled across this tonight.
Here's a link from 2011, its specifies 500 million in "revenue"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/10/intel_nvidia_cross_licensing/
AMD is providing the GPU and CPU, so that's $10 + $10= $20. And lets say that with its super awesome technology AMD was able to charge more than what Nvidia had managed, so we'll double the whole amount. $40 per unit.
My $30 per unit calculations I made at the beginning of the thread are still looking pretty good.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1510202-3-new-developments-for-nvidia
Here's a link from 2011, its specifies 500 million in "revenue"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/10/intel_nvidia_cross_licensing/
AMD is providing the GPU and CPU, so that's $10 + $10= $20. And lets say that with its super awesome technology AMD was able to charge more than what Nvidia had managed, so we'll double the whole amount. $40 per unit.
My $30 per unit calculations I made at the beginning of the thread are still looking pretty good.
It was also black in color.
Selling for a loss means Sony paid suppliers (Eg Nvidia) more money then they charged consumers...and they charged consumers $599.
Seems AMD's aquisition of ATI has payed back at last ..
I still call the cards ATI .. can't believe the Red Giant is now AMD
I still call the cards ATI .. can't believe the Red Giant is now AMD
Mentioned this before...probably 3 times in this thread already, but AMD said in their conference call that they were getting paid near the top end of client APU for the PS4.
Obviously that can't be $30. Even $60 is low end, and don't forget AMD is providing the silicon which is an additional service on top. We also have the $3 billion figure over the lifetime of the console for the Xbox One, which is 6x Nvidia's PS3 revenue putting even the Xbox's less powerful APU at around $60 minimum.
Obviously that can't be $30. Even $60 is low end, and don't forget AMD is providing the silicon which is an additional service on top. We also have the $3 billion figure over the lifetime of the console for the Xbox One, which is 6x Nvidia's PS3 revenue putting even the Xbox's less powerful APU at around $60 minimum.
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AMD won simply because they're in the best position to provide the hardware consoles are after at a low price point.
They're after the low-mid performance range at a very cheap price point, AMD have a long history of targeting the mid range over everything else and doing so at really good prices, so it's a no brainier really.
Nvidia have already said there simply wasn't the margins to make the console deals worth it, partially because the margins are naturally going to be small to begin with, but also because AMD can undercut them there. Nvidia has always been more of a big guns player on the PC with very strong high end parts as a priority.
They're after the low-mid performance range at a very cheap price point, AMD have a long history of targeting the mid range over everything else and doing so at really good prices, so it's a no brainier really.
Nvidia have already said there simply wasn't the margins to make the console deals worth it, partially because the margins are naturally going to be small to begin with, but also because AMD can undercut them there. Nvidia has always been more of a big guns player on the PC with very strong high end parts as a priority.
Well that's a given, considering that both the PS4 and xbone chips are likely going to be 300-400mm^2 on 28nm, which is pretty much top end size for any custom silicon/SOC.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
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A HD7850/70 is 212mm2. So i cant imagine them being over 300mm2 with the size of individual Jaguar cores.
Also the Xbox One is severely limited. 128bit IMC, 16 ROPs, less CUs. Perhaps that one can be done at 200mm2.
But as shown in this thread, Nvidia was rejected by both Sony and Microsoft because lacked the technology.
Moreover, Nvidia is rebating its own console.
What? nVidia was not rejected. They declined to sell something for low gross margins.
AMD does not even need to make profit because of the WSA with GF.
AMD does not even need to make profit because of the WSA with GF.
There is nothing wrong with their PR. nVidia is a growing company. nVidia has record gross margins. They had a record revenue year. They have no debt. They hiring new people for their future strategies. They have no capacity to work on something which will not increase their margins.
Nvidia was rejected because, as everyone else has said, they are not able to make an x86 SoC. They could have the best ARM SoC in the world, but that won't cut it for a console.
Aha. A console needs x86. Makes absolutely sense. I guess the Xbox 1 was such a hit...
They don't care about x86. They want a cheap SoC. And AMD was able to provide them with it for a 2013 release.
In two, three years noboby care about x86 in the consoles when smartphones, tablets and other ARM devices have the same performance... Or wait: They have the same CPU performance today with up to 4 threads. :hmm:
Vesku
Diamond Member
- Aug 25, 2005
- 3,743
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I thought that the XBone was actually meant to have the largest die? That ESRAM takes up an awful lot of space.
EDIT: Bare die pictured here, but I've not got the photo-ninja skills to estimate a die size from there.
Looks like it's somewhere in the range of 240-300mm2, memory dimensions are 12x10mm according to Micron datasheet. My own eyeball estimate is roughly 280mm2.
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Yes. They said margins were to low on next gen consoles. But do you remember what they said when they got a deal with ps3? They said it is huge success and steady stream of $$$ for couple of years without needing to spend millions on RND each year!
They are trying everything to make it look like they (nv) didn't want to be in next gen. Truth is, Sony and MS didn't want them(their tech to be pricise)
They care about 64-bit, for pretty obvious reasons. 64-bit ARM in 2013 wasn't a very realistic option for them, even if they went away from AMD APUs (which themselves are kind of a no-brainer).
Even w/o 64-bit x86 still has some advantages in this space, especially for Microsoft.
Well, PowerPC and Cell are out of consideration, ARM is too underpowered, what do you suggest besides x86? :whiste:
In two or three years, sure, maybe, because ARM will finally be able to scratch the bottom end of x86. But for now, their core designs belong in tablets, not gaming consoles.
Even if they wanted an expensive SoC Nvidia couldn't have given it to them. They can't do x86. Their best ARM design still loses to 8C Jaguar, let alone if AMD had SR or something (which is silly, yes, but more high-end than anything Nvidia is capable of).
Just accept the fact Nvidia only makes low-end SoC's, and that isn't what Microsoft or Sony was looking for.
Nvidia has been a growing company with great margins for years now. That didn't stop them from getting into consoles the last few generations. Nvidia simply does not have the SoC technology that makes sense for a console. They have the GPU tech for sure, but seeing as both MS and Sony went with an APU I doubt a separate CPU/GPU set up was ever going to be an option.
But using a Jaguar core makes sense? Right...
A15 and Krait400 have 2x to 3x the perf/watt of Jaguar.
In the 3DMark physics test a 1,8GHz A15 gets 13774 points and Krait 14828 points.
That is 82%/88% of the A4-5000 Kabini SoC.
Wow, how many times you want to repeat that they really wanted x86?
If x86 would be so great MS did not dump Intel for IBM and the mobile world be dominated by x86 and not ARM.
It is quite interested that the world is going away from x86 and yet the console markers think using x86 will help them to survive.
You are right. They wanted a junk SoC with a CPU performance of a "low-end SoCs" except the superb perf/watt. :awe:
The growth came from the dGPU and mobile market. The console market is to limited for them. And this generation is facing a market which has so many threats that it's unlikely that we will see the same sales.
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ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
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If I was Microsoft, I would pick AMD as my processor supplier just to insure that AMD stays in business.
Without competition from AMD, Intel gets to jack up the cost of new CPU's. Then the following happens:
PC's and Laptops then get more expensive due to the more expensive CPU's
People decide to hang on their old PC's for awhile longer.
Microsoft loses Windows and Office revenue due to slow PC sales. And don't kid yourself... Microsoft still makes most of it's money from Windows and Office.
Microsoft doesn't enough free R&D money to come up with new innovations, and loses even more market share to Google and Apple. Screw Sony... this is what Microsoft is really worried about.
Without competition from AMD, Intel gets to jack up the cost of new CPU's. Then the following happens:
PC's and Laptops then get more expensive due to the more expensive CPU's
People decide to hang on their old PC's for awhile longer.
Microsoft loses Windows and Office revenue due to slow PC sales. And don't kid yourself... Microsoft still makes most of it's money from Windows and Office.
Microsoft doesn't enough free R&D money to come up with new innovations, and loses even more market share to Google and Apple. Screw Sony... this is what Microsoft is really worried about.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
Your logic is severely flawed. Replace MS with Intel. And then ask yourself why Intel would jack up prices.
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