The radiators on the second floor of my house are not getting hot

[mugs]

Not even warm to the touch. The second floor is at least 10 degrees colder than the first floor. What could cause this? Not enough water in the system?

Edit: There is a pipe in the kitchen that goes up to the bedroom. The pipe gets warm/hot, but the radiator - not so much. We put insulation on the pipe but it didn't help. The valve for the radiators ARE open.

 

[KK]

is it clogged?

 

[radioouman]

How about you need to purge the air out of the system on the second floor?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Air in the rads. While the system is running hot, get the rad key and gently undo the end screws at the top of the rad. You should hear air escaping. Do this with a towel ready until water seeps out. Repeat on all problem rads.

Enjoy!

 

[dartworth]

If there wasn't enough water in the system, the system would shut off. Besides, your boiler should be tied into the doestic water line to provide make up water when/if needed.

It is very possible that the line is air bound...some air is trapped in or near the radiator. Does the radiator have a vent, or is there any vents/valves you can open to bleed off the air?

Look around for a vlave of some sort. If you open anything, open it slowly away from your face.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dartworth
If there wasn't enough water in the system, the system would shut off. Besides, your boiler should be tied into the doestic water line to provide make up water when/if needed.

It is very possible that the line is air bound...some air is trapped in or near the radiator. Does the radiator have a vent, or is there any vents/valves you can open to bleed off the air?

Look around for a vlave of some sort. If you open anything, open it slowly away from your face.

It is tied into the water line, but the valve is shut off... we turn it on sometimes to keep the furnace from shutting off. Should the water supply be left on at all times? In the past when I've filled it some water bubbled out of a pipe sticking out of the furnace, I figured that meant I overfilled it.

I'll see if I can find away to release the air. Sometimes the radiators make a whistling sound, I figured that's what it was doing... but now that I think about it I've only heard the downstairs radiators doing that.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth
If there wasn't enough water in the system, the system would shut off. Besides, your boiler should be tied into the doestic water line to provide make up water when/if needed.

It is very possible that the line is air bound...some air is trapped in or near the radiator. Does the radiator have a vent, or is there any vents/valves you can open to bleed off the air?

Look around for a vlave of some sort. If you open anything, open it slowly away from your face.

It is tied into the water line, but the valve is shut off... we turn it on sometimes to keep the furnace from shutting off. Should the water supply be left on at all times? In the past when I've filled it some water bubbled out of a pipe sticking out of the furnace, I figured that meant I overfilled it.

I'll see if I can find away to release the air. Sometimes the radiators make a whistling sound, I figured that's what it was doing... but now that I think about it I've only heard the downstairs radiators doing that.

should be a valve on the rad to purge the air.

 

[theknight571]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Air in the rads. While the system is running hot, get the rad key and gently undo the end screws at the top of the rad. You should hear air escaping. Do this with a towel ready until water seeps out. Repeat on all problem rads.

Enjoy!

I'd second that suggestion.

FWIW..in my house the valve from the water supply to the radiator system is always open. There is also a backflow preventer that keeps the radiator water from getting into the rest of the system.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth
If there wasn't enough water in the system, the system would shut off. Besides, your boiler should be tied into the doestic water line to provide make up water when/if needed.

It is very possible that the line is air bound...some air is trapped in or near the radiator. Does the radiator have a vent, or is there any vents/valves you can open to bleed off the air?

Look around for a vlave of some sort. If you open anything, open it slowly away from your face.

It is tied into the water line, but the valve is shut off... we turn it on sometimes to keep the furnace from shutting off. Should the water supply be left on at all times? In the past when I've filled it some water bubbled out of a pipe sticking out of the furnace, I figured that meant I overfilled it.

I'll see if I can find away to release the air. Sometimes the radiators make a whistling sound, I figured that's what it was doing... but now that I think about it I've only heard the downstairs radiators doing that.

Yes, you should leave the makeup water valve open.

 

[mugs]

All of the radiators have a small vent on them that is always open. It's a bell-shaped thing sticking out of the side of the radiator with a tiny hole at the top. I took it off entirely just to make sure there wasn't any air stuff in there. I just topped off the furnace and turned the heat up 10 degrees. The downstairs radiators are whistling like crazy, the upstairs radiators got hotter but they aren't whistling like the downstairs ones. It'd be nice if we could have the upstairs get a little warmer without making the downstairs uncomfortably warm, but oh well.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dartworth
Yes, you should leave the makeup water valve open.

I just topped it off and water started coming out the pipe on top again. That seems like it wouldn't be normal.

See: IMG_1106.jpg (the arrow points to the little pipe sticking out of the top that the water comes out of. It has some sort of cap on it with holes (vents possibly?)

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs
All of the radiators have a small vent on them that is always open. It's a bell-shaped thing sticking out of the side of the radiator with a tiny hole at the top. I took it off entirely just to make sure there wasn't any air stuff in there. I just topped off the furnace and turned the heat up 10 degrees. The downstairs radiators are whistling like crazy, the upstairs radiators got hotter but they aren't whistling like the downstairs ones. It'd be nice if we could have the upstairs get a little warmer without making the downstairs uncomfortably warm, but oh well.

Sounds like they are automatic air vents which tend to get clogged or go bad after awhile.

I am surprised your upstairs isn't zoned off from the downstairs. This way you would have a thermostat on each floor or in each room. This is one of the big benefits with using a boiler.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth
Yes, you should leave the makeup water valve open.

I just topped it off and water started coming out the pipe on top again. That seems like it wouldn't be normal.

See: IMG_1106.jpg (the arrow points to the little pipe sticking out of the top that the water comes out of. It has some sort of cap on it with holes (vents possibly?)

without a better picture, it is hard to say what it is.

almost looks like the relief valve...:shurg;

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dartworth

Sounds like they are automatic air vents which tend to get clogged or go bad after awhile.

I am surprised your upstairs isn't zoned off from the downstairs. This way you would have a thermostat on each floor or in each room. This is one of the big benefits with using a boiler.

Well, the house is 80 years old... did they do that back then?

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth

Sounds like they are automatic air vents which tend to get clogged or go bad after awhile.

I am surprised your upstairs isn't zoned off from the downstairs. This way you would have a thermostat on each floor or in each room. This is one of the big benefits with using a boiler.

Well, the house is 80 years old... did they do that back then?

I'm sure the boiler isn't 80 years old...


They system could be zoned fairly easy...but that is another thread

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dartworth

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth
Yes, you should leave the makeup water valve open.

I just topped it off and water started coming out the pipe on top again. That seems like it wouldn't be normal.

See: IMG_1106.jpg (the arrow points to the little pipe sticking out of the top that the water comes out of. It has some sort of cap on it with holes (vents possibly?)

without a better picture, it is hard to say what it is.

almost looks like the relief valve...:shurg;

Found a bigger picture: pipe.jpg

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs


Found a bigger picture: pipe.jpg

That does look like a relief valve...there is a metaltab/handle on it. Make sure that is all the way down. It should have a pipe running out of it to the floor/drain

I would suggest actuating that valve to make sure nothing is clogged in it preventing the valve from closing. If the valve does not close all the way and the water keep running, I would suggest replacing that valve. This valve is a saftey feature of the boiler.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: dartworth


That does look like a relief valve...there is a metaltab/handle on it. Make sure that is all the way down. It should have a pipe running out of it to the floor/drain

I would suggest actuating that valve to make sure nothing is clogged in it preventing the valve from closing. If the valve does not close all the way and the water keep running, I would suggest replacing that valve. This valve is a saftey feature of the boiler.

Well, I jiggled it a bit then turned the water on. It [the water] ran for a good two minutes, then the relief valve burst open like a geyser. So I shut it off [the water]. I guess I'll be replacing that.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth


That does look like a relief valve...there is a metaltab/handle on it. Make sure that is all the way down. It should have a pipe running out of it to the floor/drain

I would suggest actuating that valve to make sure nothing is clogged in it preventing the valve from closing. If the valve does not close all the way and the water keep running, I would suggest replacing that valve. This valve is a saftey feature of the boiler.

Well, I jiggled it a bit then turned the water on. It [the water] ran for a good two minutes, then the relief valve burst open like a geyser. So I shut it off [the water]. I guess I'll be replacing that.

Well the relief valve may be opening for a specific reason...

You may have a problem with the boiler, or the relief valve is bad. I would replace the relief valve first. Make sure you purchase the correct one. It should have a tag on it...giving you the rating of the valve.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: dartworth


That does look like a relief valve...there is a metaltab/handle on it. Make sure that is all the way down. It should have a pipe running out of it to the floor/drain

I would suggest actuating that valve to make sure nothing is clogged in it preventing the valve from closing. If the valve does not close all the way and the water keep running, I would suggest replacing that valve. This valve is a saftey feature of the boiler.

Well, I jiggled it a bit then turned the water on. It [the water] ran for a good two minutes, then the relief valve burst open like a geyser. So I shut it off [the water]. I guess I'll be replacing that.

I know that it is not at all uncommon for relief valves to get stuck open. A lot of water heater manuals state that you should test it every 6/12 months, but from what I have experienced/seen/heard, they will often get stuck open when doing this. This isn't to say they won't do their job and bleed pressure in an emergency, just that they stay open.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

It sounds like your relief valve is lifting either because its bad or your PRV is letting too much pressure into the system from the city water and its lifting your safety valve. I work on boilers for a living but nothing that small. More like 200hp and up like pic below.
http://www.cbboilers.com/firetube/images/4wi_large.gif

I know that it is not at all uncommon for relief valves to get stuck open. A lot of water heater manuals state that you should test it every 6/12 months, but from what I have experienced/seen/heard, they will often get stuck open when doing this. This isn't to say they won't do their job and bleed pressure in an emergency, just that they stay open

Happens with all relief valves. When we test them we have to be within 90% of max pressure and open them using a 6 ft hunk of electrical conduit. They will either lift and seal properly, not lift at all (bad) or lift and not seat back again. All you can do then is shut the steam headers and walk away cause it will be HOURS before you can even get near the boiler again.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Antisocial Virge
It sounds like your relief valve is lifting either because its bad or your PRV is letting too much pressure into the system from the city water and its lifting your safety valve. I work on boilers for a living but nothing that small. More like 200hp and up like pic below.
http://www.cbboilers.com/firetube/images/4wi_large.gif

If that is the problem, how do I fix it? (I will try replacing the relief valve first)

 

[laurenlex]

Threadjack.

I have a similar problem. Hot water radiators. Upstairs not working. I have tried to purge air out of the upstairs radiatiors, but air does not seep out like downstairs. I open the "bleeders" and get nothing. No air. No water. I gave up and turned up the fireplace.

Any hints?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: radioouman
How about you need to purge the air out of the system on the second floor?

That's my guess. It should be done annually prior to winter. If there is air in there, the water would have to push the air down back top the first flow/basement. That with the concept of "path of least resistance" cause radiators (and baseboards) not the heat up.

OT:
We had a wierd problem with our house. Baseboards in the basement wern't getting hot, just warm. Turned out being a bad controller on the furnace. Not sure exactly the problem was, but similar symptoms had this as the root cause.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: radioouman
How about you need to purge the air out of the system on the second floor?

That's my guess. It should be done annually prior to winter. If there is air in there, the water would have to push the air down back top the first flow/basement. That with the concept of "path of least resistance" cause radiators (and baseboards) not the heat up.

OT:
We had a wierd problem with our house. Baseboards in the basement wern't getting hot, just warm. Turned out being a bad controller on the furnace. Not sure exactly the problem was, but similar symptoms had this as the root cause.

You might have seperate zones going to seperate thermostats. I have seen them on smaller setups and if the valve or controller goes bad it won't open the valve going to that zone so no heat.