The R9 295 thread - Reviews are in - Quiet, cooler, fast, $1500

[Subyman]

According to this image the Rad is 38mm

Even with that it won't help much. Look at Martin's Liquid Lab, the really thick radiators (80mm) do not perform substantially better than the normal radiators (35-45mm). My calculations were based on the EX360 adjusted for 120mm.

 

[Subyman]

Subyman, you need a lot of excess rads for your loop because you want a good delta T. For an AIO, they run as a "very hot" loop and therefore can dissipate a lot of W, much more than their normal operating temps.

I know from The Mod and Red Mod (AIO), that even heavy OC R290X temps stay really low on a single 120mm rad, in the 60C range. We also know they get above 400W when pushed.

It will be enough to handle 500W, it just will not have great temps but around the 85C mark and absolutely no room for any OC, which is a shame. They should have just put a 240mm rad on it, people who spend this much $$ on GPUs will definitely have a rig that handles the rad.

Yup, that is exactly what I am saying. The temps are going to be high and the thing will most likely be running the fans at 1600RPM with the on-GPU fan and the pump noise. The high temperature gradient is a major factor, which is why I was very conservative with my numbers. I expect to see ~90C temps on this thing with quite a bit of noise.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Even with that it won't help much. Look at Martin's Liquid Lab, the really thick radiators (80mm) do not perform substantially better than the normal radiators (35-45mm). My calculations were based on the EX360 adjusted for 120mm.

You have to remember, GPU's don't need to run at 50C or something really low. These can happily sit at much higher temps. Not to mention the fan in the middle likely moves air over some kind of hybrid heatsinks (just guessing) that will take advantage of that as well.

I'd say let's see the reviews before we draw too many conclusions. I think at this point the only thing we can say with some confidence is that this card will use a lot of electric.

 

[sushiwarrior]

This is really a weird card. 500W, half water, half air, clocks higher than the single GPU card. My gut tells me its a rubbish, bandaided attempt to clinch the performance crown using whatever means necessary. A 50 dollar cheapo watercooler with a big ass fan. Worse of both worlds, loud air cooling with awkwardness of water. I highly doubt this thing will run cool. A single 120mm thin rad has a Celsius/Watt rating of around 0.16 C/W with a fan speed of around 1500RPM.

Using that we have 0.16*500 = 80C over ambient which is usually around 20-22C. Therefore the temps will be hitting 100C with just the watercooler. The air cooler will bring it down a bit, but we are looking at ~90C temps on this thing easily. 500W on load is no joke. I have 2x240mm 45mm thick radiators for a single 780 and a 4820k to get decent temps and those only pull around 350W max.

I am sure your armchair math based on an eyeballed number on a rad you don't even care to read the details of (such as thickness) is destined to be better than the calculations/verifications of thermal engineers with detailed specs.

 

[Subyman]

You have to remember, GPU's don't need to run at 50C or something really low. These can happily sit at much higher temps. Not to mention the fan in the middle likely moves air over some kind of hybrid heatsinks (just guessing) that will take advantage of that as well.

I'd say let's see the reviews before we draw too many conclusions. I think at this point the only thing we can say with some confidence is that this card will use a lot of electric.

Haha, yes it will be burning the coal! I'm not totally against the card. I think the stock cooler is embarrassing considering the competition (frankenstien cooler.) I can't wait to see what the card will do with an EK block and a proper loop. It is going to be insane.

My original comments were pointing out that it will be running hot, like you say. Some people read water-cooling and think it will be cool and quiet.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the card does. I have a feeling Anandtech is not going to like it at all seeing as they ripped the R9 290 a new fan hole for having a loud and hot cooler. I don't think they will appreciate tubing and a rad coming out of a reference heatsink haha.

 

[Subyman]

I am sure your armchair math based on an eyeballed number on a rad you don't even care to read the details of (such as thickness) is destined to be better than the calculations/verifications of thermal engineers with detailed specs.

I'm not going to defend my armchair math like its gospel lol. Its back of the envelope calculations to see roughly where the temps will be. My rough estimate was around 90C, do you think it will be much cooler than that with 500W to dissipate? Seeing as these are the same engineers that approved the R9 290 cooler....

I hope the temps are lower, but I'd be surprised.

 

[Despoiler]

You have to remember, GPU's don't need to run at 50C or something really low. These can happily sit at much higher temps. Not to mention the fan in the middle likely moves air over some kind of hybrid heatsinks (just guessing) that will take advantage of that as well.

I'd say let's see the reviews before we draw too many conclusions. I think at this point the only thing we can say with some confidence is that this card will use a lot of electric.

The fan in the middle cools the VRMs and RAM. The water is cooling the GPUs. At least that is what I have read elsewhere.

 

[Creig]

Some people read water-cooling and think it will be cool and quiet.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the card does. I have a feeling Anandtech is not going to like it at all seeing as they ripped the R9 290 a new fan hole for having a loud and hot cooler. I don't think they will appreciate tubing and a rad coming out of a reference heatsink haha.

Why do you keep assuming it's going to be loud? A single 120mm fan blowing into a radiator to cool the GPUs and a reduced RPM single fan on the card to cool everything else does not automatically equal loud. Hot? Most likely, given the characteristics of the 290's GPU. But I feel it has a good chance of having normal video card acoustics with this dual air/water cooling configuration.

 

[Subyman]

Why do you keep assuming it's going to be loud? A single 120mm fan blowing into a radiator to cool the GPUs and a reduced RPM single fan on the card to cool everything else does not automatically equal loud. Hot? Most likely, given the characteristics of the 290's GPU. But I feel it has a good chance of having normal video card acoustics with this dual air/water cooling configuration.

I assume its going to be loud due to having to dissipate 500W via a single 120mm radiator. The 120mm fan won't be cruising along at 800RPM. I suspect it will be at least 1600RPM plus the pump noise plus the on-GPU fan. I've stated all that before. It shouldn't be as loud as the R9 290. Some of the 120mm AIOs get rather loud just cooling a CPU (~100W).

It will be really interesting to see how the cooler stacks up against a Titan-Z (regardless of the price difference, the two cooling solutions will be interesting to compare.)

I must say that I thought it was push/pull before, but it looks to only have a single fan.

 

[guskline]

You know what I just thought about? Remember the FX9590 and how they packaged a cooler for it? Most of what I read was that the thermals were kept in check with the packaged cooler but there were better ( and bigger rads) for it if Oc'd.

AMD's approach recognizes the high heat output, and for that they should be commended. I also agree that Hawaii is speced to run at 95C BUT throttling can be a problem.

From what I see of this design, it doesn't appear to leave much thermal dissipation headroom to OC.

MartinLiquidlabs.org has a ton of tests of radiators of various thicknesses. I would love to see the same sort of testing applied to this cooling solution.

 

[guskline]

Why do you keep assuming it's going to be loud? A single 120mm fan blowing into a radiator to cool the GPUs and a reduced RPM single fan on the card to cool everything else does not automatically equal loud. Hot? Most likely, given the characteristics of the 290's GPU. But I feel it has a good chance of having normal video card acoustics with this dual air/water cooling configuration.

Creig, though they are pretty quiet, you still have TWO Asetek pump combo heads in this loop so it isn't just the fans.

 

[Creig]

I assume its going to be loud due to having to dissipate 500W via a single 120mm radiator. The 120mm fan won't be cruising along at 800RPM. I suspect it will be at least 1600RPM plus the pump noise plus the on-GPU fan. I've stated all that before. It shouldn't be as loud as the R9 290. Some of the 120mm AIOs get rather loud just cooling a CPU (~100W).

Even if the card ends up consuming 500w total (I've seen 375w and 500w numbers thrown around), not all 500w can be attributed to the GPUs alone. Whatever power the VRMs, memory, and every other non-GPU component of the card themselves use will be cooled by the fan mounted to the card. Not to mention the power used by the pump and two fans.

I have no idea how much that all adds up to, but it's obvious that the water cooling side of this card won't have to deal with the entire power draw. However much that ends up being.

 

[Creig]

Creig, though they are pretty quiet, you still have TWO Asetek pump combo heads in this loop so it isn't just the fans.

Very true. I harbor no illusions that this card will ever be called 'quiet'. But I can envision the possibility that it will have sound levels comparable to other high-end video cards given its hybrid air/water cooling system.

 

[guskline]

I just found this article reviewing the AMD cooler made by Asetek. I realize the radiator is 49mm thick not 38 but the article does give some insight into the cooling capacity. Enjoy!

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2699&page=1

 

[Subyman]

Even if the card ends up consuming 500w total (I've seen 375w and 500w numbers thrown around), not all 500w can be attributed to the GPUs alone. Whatever power the VRMs, memory, and every other non-GPU component of the card themselves use will be cooled by the fan mounted to the card. Not to mention the power used by the pump and two fans.

I have no idea how much that all adds up to, but it's obvious that the water cooling side of this card won't have to deal with the entire power draw. However much that ends up being.

That doesn't matter. What does matter is that 500W needs to be dissipated regardless of what heat goes where, it has to make its way off the board and out of the case. Doing so is going to be noisy with only one 120mm fan and one GPU fan.

 

[Creig]

That doesn't matter. What does matter is that 500W needs to be dissipated regardless of what heat goes where, it has to make its way off the board and out of the case. Doing so is going to be noisy with only one 120mm fan and one GPU fan.

I don't agree. With two fans and two completely separate paths for heat dissipation, it might be entirely possible to obtain acceptable noise levels with the cooling system pictured. Obviously, we won't know until the card is actually reviewed. But I believe there is a chance for acceptable acoustics.

 

[Gikaseixas]

There aren't many assumptions there. The pictures even show that its an asetek water cooler, the round pump design like on the H50... The fact is 500W on a thin 120mm cooler with 2x120mm fans and a typical GPU fan will be running hot and won't be quiet. Everything I posted was based on the specs, obviously no one has seen noise tests yet! Its not out. Its called speculating based on the leaks using known data (C/W of 120mm rads.) We will wait and see how the tests match, but unless AMD found a way to break the laws of physics, the card is going to be hot if it does indeed draw 500W with the leaked cooling specs.

Please tell me "all" the assumptions I got wrong.

Suby all assumptions you came up with are wrong IMO
The rad is not thin and with that fan in the middle i think you're going to be shocked. They even raised the mhz to make sure it's better than two 290X's. But let's wait and see, just a few more days.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You know what I just thought about? Remember the FX9590 and how they packaged a cooler for it? Most of what I read was that the thermals were kept in check with the packaged cooler but there were better ( and bigger rads) for it if Oc'd.

AMD's approach recognizes the high heat output, and for that they should be commended. I also agree that Hawaii is speced to run at 95C BUT throttling can be a problem.

From what I see of this design, it doesn't appear to leave much thermal dissipation headroom to OC.

MartinLiquidlabs.org has a ton of tests of radiators of various thicknesses. I would love to see the same sort of testing applied to this cooling solution.

9590 got its own heat issues. And do I have to mention the 7990? This card looks more like a PR stunt. And water+air is only way to get there. I doubt many cards will be made. And what will be the price be? 1500$? 2000$?

 

[Gloomy]

9590 got its own heat issues. And do i have to mention the 7990? This card looks more like a pr stunt. And water+air is only way to get there. I doubt many cards will be made. And what will be the price be? 1500$? 2000$?

3000$?

 

[ShintaiDK]

3000$?

If they get it pass the QA to actually release a professional version. Then yes, 3000$. But I doubt that will happen. Its much easier and cheaper to cut corners in the gaming segment. Also the water cooler is a problem for the professional market. So it would need to be aircooled entirely and confront with PCIe specifications. If its 500W and only 2x8pin. They already decided it wouldnt go anywhere but a tiny niche of DIY gamers due to breaking standards. Hence its hard to actually give this product any merrit.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

People are too focused on the stock cooler from the reference boards at launch. With a decent cooler the cards draw less power which actually makes them easier to cool.

In my opinion this cooler will keep power usage and heat in check enough so that won't actually have to work that hard. I'm guessing temps around 70-75c.

 

[ShintaiDK]

People are too focused on the stock cooler from the reference boards at launch. With a decent cooler the cards draw less power which actually makes them easier to cool.

In my opinion this cooler will keep power usage and heat in check enough so that won't actually have to work that hard. I'm guessing temps around 70-75c.

If it draws much less power. Why rate it at 500W then? Twice of a 290X with just 1.8% higher clock.

 

[Gikaseixas]

If it draws much less power. Why rate it at 500W then? Twice of a 290X with just 1.8% higher clock.

As expected you have no faith in AMD products but as always you're wrong. It could be rated at 500w as long as it maintains stock clocks or higher it should be fine.
Two high end gpus will waste a lot of watts, be it Nvidia or AMD

 

[Gikaseixas]

This card looks more like a PR stunt

Looks like but it's not. It's happening next week :biggrin:

 

[ShintaiDK]

As expected you have no faith in AMD products but as always you're wrong. It could be rated at 500w as long as it maintains stock clocks or higher it should be fine.
Two high end gpus will waste a lot of watts, be it Nvidia or AMD

If you say I am wrong. Then you obviously know precisely how the product runs and at what temperature. Please provide edvidence thanks.

Looks like but it's not. It's happening next week :biggrin:

A limited production is still a PR stunt. 7990 wasnt seen much around either for example.