the question of industrial hemp

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Vic

Lefties nationalize industries, righties outlaw industries based on phony morality. Is there even a difference?

Well, according to your own argument, the left's solution is better, because the country still HAS the industry, at least... albeit under new management

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

That's really not correct at all. Marijuana was effectively banned back in the 30's in large part because of anti-Hispanic racism.

Lawmakers aren't paranoid about reducing restrictions on hemp because those kids of the 60's and 70's were just soooo craaaaazzzzaayyyy, they are afraid that changing the restrictions will make it easy for their opponents to paint them as drug sympathizers and appeasers. This is one of those cases where everyone knows the right thing to do but nobody is willing to do it.

 

[DerekWilson]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Just because you can make a car out of glass doesn't mean that you should.

Just because you can make a rope out of hemp doesn't mean that you should.

Why do people get so worked up over this?

Because it's an inexpensive, renewable, non-toxic viable alternative base material for a lot of products, including paper, fabrics and much more.

Once you take processing and manufacturing into account, it's no better than any alternative. It's not like they just flatten it out and WAM! you have paper. They still add all sorts of other chemicals and such. This causes the price to increase to the same as everything else and just as toxic.

actually you are wrong ... the processing of hemp for paper is much much cleaner even than the recycling of paper from trees btw.

not sure on final price though, but much would likely have to do with supply and demand in addition to refinement of the current popular paper processes. plus some places require the use of a certain amount of recycled paper in their paper products in spite of the fact that hemp is better for the environment which gives recycled paper an unfair market advantage.

also, as someone else said, sure the people that want it can import it. and i get the idea that their desire to have it cheaper (through domestic growth) doesn't push them to lobby for it enough to actually get it ... but that discounts the fact that higher availability at cheaper prices might inspire industries not using hemp to pick it up. i know some companies are working on making soya/corn organic "plastics" but hemp could be a good fit for that type of research if people thought of it as a viable crop.

the truth is that, even though it can be imported, a ban on growing it does sour the idea of using it in the minds of many -- people might get the impression that there is some reason it is banned that makes sense, or that it is somehow inferior to other options.

and to echo this sentiment: there should not be laws that don't make sense even if they aren't stupid enough to get "worked up" about it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: Vic

Lefties nationalize industries, righties outlaw industries based on phony morality. Is there even a difference?

Well, according to your own argument, the left's solution is better, because the country still HAS the industry, at least... albeit under new management

Not necessarily. The outcomes are effectively the same. Corruption and black markets.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

No. Hemp was banned a generation before the Hipies came around.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

That's really not correct at all. Marijuana was effectively banned back in the 30's in large part because of anti-Hispanic racism.

Lawmakers aren't paranoid about reducing restrictions on hemp because those kids of the 60's and 70's were just soooo craaaaazzzzaayyyy, they are afraid that changing the restrictions will make it easy for their opponents to paint them as drug sympathizers and appeasers. This is one of those cases where everyone knows the right thing to do but nobody is willing to do it.

It is not hemp that is the issue and when it was banned. Nor is it when MJ was banned.
It is the paranioa relating to the drug culture in general and the current memories of the 60's due to your parents.

Until people are able to forget about the effects of the drug culture from those times, legalization of hemp will be tied to the MJ push.

And then you have people that claim that cocaine shold be classified as a recreational drug.

The recreational drug culture reaching for the brass ring is preventing common sense baby steps.

 

[lupi]

I worked at a location once where a guy also carried a bunch of hemp tie down rope on him. My god that crap stunk and you could tell when he was within 10 yards of you without looking.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

No. Hemp was banned a generation before the Hipies came around.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

That's really not correct at all. Marijuana was effectively banned back in the 30's in large part because of anti-Hispanic racism.

Lawmakers aren't paranoid about reducing restrictions on hemp because those kids of the 60's and 70's were just soooo craaaaazzzzaayyyy, they are afraid that changing the restrictions will make it easy for their opponents to paint them as drug sympathizers and appeasers. This is one of those cases where everyone knows the right thing to do but nobody is willing to do it.

It is not hemp that is the issue and when it was banned. Nor is it when MJ was banned.
It is the paranioa relating to the drug culture in general and the current memories of the 60's due to your parents.

Until people are able to forget about the effects of the drug culture from those times, legalization of hemp will be tied to the MJ push.

And then you have people that claim that cocaine shold be classified as a recreational drug.

The recreational drug culture reaching for the brass ring is preventing common sense baby steps.

You're off by about 30 years. Hemp and MJ were banned long before the open drug culture, hippies etc.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Just because you can make a car out of glass doesn't mean that you should.

Just because you can make a rope out of hemp doesn't mean that you should.

Why do people get so worked up over this?

Because it's an inexpensive, renewable, non-toxic viable alternative base material for a lot of products, including paper, fabrics and much more.

Once you take processing and manufacturing into account, it's no better than any alternative. It's not like they just flatten it out and WAM! you have paper. They still add all sorts of other chemicals and such. This causes the price to increase to the same as everything else and just as toxic.

Hemp grows faster than trees, smart guy. Why would you want to make something as fleeting as paper out of a tree that take decades to grow vs something that takes a season?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson
but its still not legal?

For those of you who don't know, industrial hemp is related to marijuana as both are species in the Cannabis genus. Hemp contains negligible amounts of THC and cannot get you high. In fact, it has a high content of a compound called CBD that actually counteracts the effects of THC. No other country in the world treats hemp like a drug and yet is is banned from being grown in America.

We, in fact, are a major importer of hemp in spite of the fact that we do not allow our farmers to grow it.

Hemp, through the history of the world, has had a great many applications, but it is now being looked at as a source of ethanol and produces more energy per acre per year than either corn or sugar.

Everyone I've spoken with about it no matter what side of the drug war issue they are on agrees that legalizing hemp would be nothing but a good thing for our country.

So why isn't it being done?

It's manufactured products would kick the crap out of the paper and cotton industries. Easier to grow and cheap. Plus you can take the fibers, mix in a resin and make lumber tenX STRONGER THAN WOOD.

 

[Vic]

IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

No. Hemp was banned a generation before the Hipies came around.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

That's really not correct at all. Marijuana was effectively banned back in the 30's in large part because of anti-Hispanic racism.

Lawmakers aren't paranoid about reducing restrictions on hemp because those kids of the 60's and 70's were just soooo craaaaazzzzaayyyy, they are afraid that changing the restrictions will make it easy for their opponents to paint them as drug sympathizers and appeasers. This is one of those cases where everyone knows the right thing to do but nobody is willing to do it.

It is not hemp that is the issue and when it was banned. Nor is it when MJ was banned.
It is the paranioa relating to the drug culture in general and the current memories of the 60's due to your parents.

Until people are able to forget about the effects of the drug culture from those times, legalization of hemp will be tied to the MJ push.

And then you have people that claim that cocaine shold be classified as a recreational drug.

The recreational drug culture reaching for the brass ring is preventing common sense baby steps.

You're off by about 30 years. Hemp and MJ were banned long before the open drug culture, hippies etc.

You seem to just have a hard time comprehending as the others.

As CC is stating:
It is not when the items were banned; it is the perception of drugs that was created in the 60's & 70's that is causing hemp and MJ from being recognized.

Lawmakers are worried about opening the door based on what is currently happening with other illegal drugs.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

You seem to just have a hard time comprehending as the others.

As CC is stating:
It is not when the items were banned; it is the perception of drugs that was created in the 60's & 70's that is causing hemp and MJ from being recognized.

Lawmakers are worried about opening the door based on what is currently happening with other illegal drugs.

And WE (or at least I) am stating that the drug culture from the 60's and 70's has nothing to do with it. The hysteria surrounding drugs has remained remarkably consistent throughout the last 80 odd years. The ban was originally started in large part by racism, and it is perpetuated by the odd American emphasis on law and order/crime and punishment.

Very similar attitudes existed before 1960 as did after 1970. If anything, the widespread drug culture has probably accelerated the eventual legalization of it through the expansion of the base of people who have used it and know the government is full of shit.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

Are you kidding? The free market failed us, just look at gas prices. We need government price controls and trade laws to keep corporations honest.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
You seem to just have a hard time comprehending as the others.

As CC is stating:
It is not when the items were banned; it is the perception of drugs that was created in the 60's & 70's that is causing hemp and MJ from being recognized.

Lawmakers are worried about opening the door based on what is currently happening with other illegal drugs.

And you don't seem to understand the idea that the perception of marijuana from the 60s was formed in the 30s.

2 + 2 = 4, but you can't just leave a 2 out of the equation and expect 2 = 4.

 

[DerekWilson]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

Are you kidding? The free market failed us, just look at gas prices. We need government price controls and trade laws to keep corporations honest.

this statement and your sig are at odds with eachother ... either this is poorly presented sarcasm (as it seems too much like you are serious), you just want to stir up trouble, or something else I don't understand is going on.

either way I'll bite and go with this ...

the oil and gas market (and indeed the energy market in general) is by no means a free market. many of the issues that lead to current gas prices (not the least of which was the war in Iraq) are a direct result of government involvement and monetary policy causing problems.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

Are you kidding? The free market failed us, just look at gas prices. We need government price controls and trade laws to keep corporations honest.

We do not have a free market.

 

[BoberFett]

As I was typing that response I thought maybe I should qualify it with sarcasm tags. I decided to let it ride.

There are more than a few posters here however who firmly believe that to be a true statement. They believe in Government Uber Alles, and that corporations are evil and government is the answer to everything. I won't name names, but I'm sure some people know exactly who I'm talking about.

Clearly, this is topic is proof that government does not have our best interests in mind any more than corporations do and that the control of both should be minimized. The truly intelligent will come to the realization that corporations and government have a symbiotic nature - they feed off each other and the more power we give one, the more power the other gets. The only way to take power back is to cut them both off. Sadly, many "Republicans" cheer for small government but support corporate interests which causes an increase in government. Meanwhile many "Democrats" bemoan the power of corporations and insist that we increase the size of government as if that will somehow rein in the corporations, only to have corporations use the newly expanded government powers to their benefit.

Anyway, I'm rambling...

 

[ShotgunSteven]

I recall hearing something in a documentary that said that the outlawing of hemp was basically done to favor specific producers of wood-pulp based paper, but I cannot recall the specific names of the government officials and industries involved. Does anyone know the names, or have some links that talk about the history surrounding this in more detail if the information the documentary gave was incorrect?

I will try and track down the show when I get home in a few weeks.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson

Everyone I've spoken with about it no matter what side of the drug war issue they are on agrees that legalizing hemp would be nothing but a good thing for our country.

So why isn't it being done?

Perhaps they're afraid that they'll look too much like marijuana plants and then marijuana growers can try to conceal their marijuana with the hemp? If the ratio of hemp to marijuana were say 99-to-1 then looking for illegal marijuana would be a waste of time.

A better question is, "Why isn't marijuana just 100% legal yet?" Answer--people with a communist-like mentality want to tell other people what to do, allegedly for the "good" of society.

Justice requires that the politicians who've voted to outlaw marijuana and the sheriff''s who've aggressively gone after it be jailed and their assets seized and given to the victims of their individual rights violations.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

Are you kidding? The free market failed us, just look at gas prices. We need government price controls and trade laws to keep corporations honest.

Take off your blind folds.... If you don't think the government is pulling the strings at the pump your truly blind....

 

[OokiiNeko]

Industrial hemp can be used to make fabrics, paper, building materials, paints, foods, various grade (including food grade) oils and many other consumer and industrial products. Because cultivation and processing of industrial hemp requires little or no use of pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides, introducing the crop as a substitute for other crops will improve our environment. And use of fast-growing, durable industrial hemp for making paper will reduce the need to deplete our forests. Industrial hemp may also prove a useful substitute for petroleum products in a wide range of applications -- from fuels to plastics -- thus further reducing pollution, as well as conserving our precious national resources.

I think I found the answer.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I recall hearing something in a documentary that said that the outlawing of hemp was basically done to favor specific producers of wood-pulp based paper, but I cannot recall the specific names of the government officials and industries involved. Does anyone know the names, or have some links that talk about the history surrounding this in more detail if the information the documentary gave was incorrect?

I will try and track down the show when I get home in a few weeks.

Hemp is the peanut of the fiber category, corporate industry interests did not want the competition and used the hysterical fear of children high on hemp to kill it's production in the USA.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Vic
IOW it's market protectionism sold through a phony moral agenda.

And sorry, I see the "recreational drug culture" everytime I see a beer commercial on TV.

Exactly, let the free market decide where hemp stands, not the federal government.

Are you kidding? The free market failed us, just look at gas prices. We need government price controls and trade laws to keep corporations honest.

Take off your blind folds.... If you don't think the government is pulling the strings at the pump your truly blind....

*whooosh*

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

No. Hemp was banned a generation before the Hipies came around.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
One can thank the drug/hippie culture of your parents for making the lawmakers so paraniod.

And as long as MJ is being pushed, hemp will be dragged along in its wake

That's really not correct at all. Marijuana was effectively banned back in the 30's in large part because of anti-Hispanic racism.

Lawmakers aren't paranoid about reducing restrictions on hemp because those kids of the 60's and 70's were just soooo craaaaazzzzaayyyy, they are afraid that changing the restrictions will make it easy for their opponents to paint them as drug sympathizers and appeasers. This is one of those cases where everyone knows the right thing to do but nobody is willing to do it.

It is not hemp that is the issue and when it was banned. Nor is it when MJ was banned.
It is the paranioa relating to the drug culture in general and the current memories of the 60's due to your parents.

Until people are able to forget about the effects of the drug culture from those times, legalization of hemp will be tied to the MJ push.

And then you have people that claim that cocaine shold be classified as a recreational drug.

The recreational drug culture reaching for the brass ring is preventing common sense baby steps.

Um, paranoia over MJ existed well before the 60's, and recreational drug use is all over the place - just walk over to any bar on a weekend evening. Just because it doesn't have the Righty moral stamp of approval on it doesn't mean it is that much different than drinking a beer or downing some liquor.