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The Problem with Islam

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Originally posted by: piasabird
Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.

First of all Muhammed could not even read and write.

However, I find it strange that Muhammed claims to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel. The same angel mentioned in the Bible. How could the same angel be from 2 different Gods?
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Islam is a decendant/offshoot of judaism/christianity.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.

First of all Muhammed could not even read and write.

However, I find it strange that Muhammed claims to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel. The same angel mentioned in the Bible. How could the same angel be from 2 different Gods?
Click to expand...

The reason he got the attention was because nobody knew about the Bible where he was from. He couldn't read/write yet he knew all this information. He came from some village that had a religion that nobody heard of. They were a bunch of farmers, etc. The reason Islam spread so fast is because of the way in which the Quran was written. Poetic Arabic. Nobody in that time who spoke Arabic knew how to write that way. Even today is it hard for people to do that and only a handful of people can master it. The Quran is just one big book of poems.

Allah is not a different God than the Christian God. Same God. Belief in 1 God.
 
Freemasonry is a bit more complicated than what you take it for. Modern freemasonry is based upon Egyptian Rituals.
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are you a native English speaker?

you can't be an American or a Christian or you wouldn't try to attach free-masonry and Christianity so closely.

even trying to attach free-masons to Egyptians is like trying to attach druids to the Wicca?s of today, wiccans are only attached to druidic practices in that they "say" they are, not that they actually are in any way.

Turning from your sin and following the narrow path of Righteousness that Jesus walked does smack of the hindu great unending path, but what you don?t take into account is the individual.

Hindu is about the perfection of the soul through spiritual rebirth, Christianity teaches that, through faith in Christ, we?ll be resurrected in perfected physical bodies to sit eternally united with Christ next to God.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
While it?s debatable as to which religion is older, Hinduism or Buddhism, there is no doubt that Hinduism is the major origin of every religion on Earth. I?m going to concentrate on Western religions. From India, this belief traveled to Persia and was the foundation of the Magi system, of which Judaism is a derivative. Indians also colonized Ethiopia, which colonized and developed Egypt. From the Ethiopian/Egyptian System came the Rituals, of which Freemasonry and Christianity were derived.

Now, every religion has a more esoteric core. In that mystery religion you can find the origins of the popular religion. In Judaism, it?s the Kabala. In Christianity Freemasonry, it?s the Egyptian Rituals. Like Hinduism, there is a supreme God. However, there are three major avatars of that God, namely the Creator, Preserver, and Regenerator. Even those three have sub-avatars, but they are all characteristics of the Supreme God. Hence, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. The same is true in the Kabala and Egyptian Rituals, where there are three major deities, but they are all the same. It is the Trinity in Unity. Now why would leaders of these particular religions keep an inner and outer shell? Because if the masses found out that their religion was based on another, they would simply go to that source. So, to keep their flock in check, the leaders taught the literal (meanings), added individuality, while keeping the ultimate truth close to their chest.

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.
The more important fact here is that Muhammed took Judaism at face value, without studying the Kabala. Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism, it simply leaves out all the complexities, history, and culture that makes it and its derivates what they are. Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammed took the stories of the Torah and New Testament at face value, instead of realizing their allegorical interpretations.

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.


EDIT: I'm neither Indian or Hindu.
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Nice post. Some links and background from other sources would have been nice, but this is far and away better than the usual sophomoric garbage in here.
 
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Originally posted by: Dari
While it?s debatable as to which religion is older, Hinduism or Buddhism, there is no doubt that Hinduism is the major origin of every religion on Earth. I?m going to concentrate on Western religions. From India, this belief traveled to Persia and was the foundation of the Magi system, of which Judaism is a derivative. Indians also colonized Ethiopia, which colonized and developed Egypt. From the Ethiopian/Egyptian System came the Rituals, of which Freemasonry and Christianity were derived.

Now, every religion has a more esoteric core. In that mystery religion you can find the origins of the popular religion. In Judaism, it?s the Kabala. In Christianity Freemasonry, it?s the Egyptian Rituals. Like Hinduism, there is a supreme God. However, there are three major avatars of that God, namely the Creator, Preserver, and Regenerator. Even those three have sub-avatars, but they are all characteristics of the Supreme God. Hence, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. The same is true in the Kabala and Egyptian Rituals, where there are three major deities, but they are all the same. It is the Trinity in Unity. Now why would leaders of these particular religions keep an inner and outer shell? Because if the masses found out that their religion was based on another, they would simply go to that source. So, to keep their flock in check, the leaders taught the literal (meanings), added individuality, while keeping the ultimate truth close to their chest.

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.
The more important fact here is that Muhammed took Judaism at face value, without studying the Kabala. Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism, it simply leaves out all the complexities, history, and culture that makes it and its derivates what they are. Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammed took the stories of the Torah and New Testament at face value, instead of realizing their allegorical interpretations.

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.


EDIT: I'm neither Indian or Hindu.
Click to expand...


Nice post. Some links and background from other sources would have been nice, but this is far and away better than the usual sophomoric garbage in here.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: piasabird
These were the same people that worshipped a meteorite that fell from the sky. They even built the meteorit a shrine.
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if the shrine ur talkin about is the Kabaa, then some say that it was the SHIVLING ( an idol of a Hindu god named Shiva ) which fell from the sky not the meteorite..
 
OK first of all, it is clear by this post that people on this forum have the audacity and ignorance to denounce the way of life of a group of people without paying much regard to what they are actually saying. And it is not just any group of people that they target, but the largest community of human beings on this Earth, the Muslims.

Secondly, Dari, it seems to me that your post is a result of a sudden urge to say something first and then think later. What you have said fails to take into account the whole aspect of a religion being divine and not just philosophical. Now, it is clear that not all religions are considered to be divinely inspired, which is actually contrary to the definition of the word "religion". Following this train of logic, Hinduism and Buddhism are therefore not religions, but simply "isms" as they are mostly based on mythical figures (Hinduism) and philosophical/spiritual teachings of one man, Buddha (Buddhism). Islam, Christianity and Judaism, however are religions by definition, each divinely inspired.

These religions therefore, revolve around a deity: Allah in Islam, the Trinity in Christianity and Yahweh in Judaism. All these religions agree on the fact that God almighty has sent revelations upon his chosen messengers and prophets throughout the ages, since the dawn of mankind, to guide human beings in life.

Your claim of the "leaders" of these religions keeping "the ultimate truth close to their chest" and keeping their followers in the dark about the true origin of their religion is totally baseless and foolish to say the least. Do you think the leaders of these religions, namely Muhammad, Jesus and Moses (peace be upon them all) were lying? Muslims, Jews and Christians have pretty convincing arguments to say the least that these people were real and that they did receive divine revelation by which to guide their followers in following the right path.

You think you have somehow exposed these leaders and that billions of people living today are wrong in thinking that their leader/prophet told them the whole truth as revealed to them by God. I am not even going to ask you to bring proof of your shortsighted claims. Have you any sense?

What are these "inner and outer shells" that you speak of? I cannot speak for the other two religions, but Muhammad (peace be upon him) believed in what he taught his followers: that God is one and that he is the last messenger of God who has revealed the Qur'an upon him as a guidance to all of mankind. This concept of divinity and belief in Muhammad (peace be upon him) is central to the ethos of Islam. Do you think that the prophet of Islam did a cut and paste job in originating Islam and that is is the result of a mixture of concepts from older religions, namely Judaism and Christianity?

As for the direction of the prayers being in the direction of Jerusalem, let me explain. There is no doubt about the fact that the direction of prayer, for about 16-17 months after migrating to Medina, was in the direction of Jerusalem, more specifically Masjid Al-Aqsa, which is the third holiest site for Muslims worldwide. Let me present here an article for clarification:

When Allah first ordered the Holy Prophet and all Muslims to offer the daily Salat, they were required to pray facing Baytul Muqaddas (Jerusalem). This was the practice in Mecca and continued in Madina until the seventeenth month after Hijrat.

In Madina, the Jews also said their prayers facing Baytul Muqaddas. They did not like the fact that the Muslims had the same Qiblah as they did, and tried to use this fact to discredit Islam and the Holy Prophet. They said to the Muslims, "Muhammad claims to have a religion whose laws supersede all other previous laws, yet he does not have an independent Qiblah, and offers his prayers facing the Qiblah of the Jews."

After the Holy Prophet received this news he used to come out at night and look into the sky awaiting the revelation from Allah about this matter. The following verse was revealed at this time:

"Many a time We have seen you turn your face towards heaven. We will make you turn towards a Qiblah that will please you..." Surah al-Baqarah, 2:144

The fact that the Qiblah was the same as that of the Jews was also because it was a test of the faith of the people. The true faith of the followers would be tested by seeing if any of them refused or delayed to turn towards the new Qiblah as chosen by Allah. This is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an in the following verse:

"We decreed your former Qiblah only so that We may know the Prophet's true followers and those who were to deny him. It was indeed a hard test, but not for those whom Allah guided..." Surah al-Baqarah, 2:143

One day, while the Holy Prophet and the Muslims were praying together, the command came from Allah to change the Qiblah from Baytul Muqaddas to the Holy Ka'ba in Mecca. After the Holy Prophet had already completed two raka'ats of the noon prayer, the Angel Jibraeel communicated to him the command of Allah.

He held the hand of the Holy Prophet and turned him towards the Holy Ka'ba in Masjidul Haraam in Mecca. The Holy Prophet at once changed his direction in the middle of Salat. Imam Ali followed this change immediately. The other Muslims were confused by this action and only a few followed the example of Imam Ali.

The mosque where this happened is known as "Masjide Dhul Qiblatain" which means "The Mosque with the Two Qiblahs". This mosque still exists in Madina today.

With modern instruments and science we can pinpoint the exact location of Madina to be at latitude 24 degrees and longitude 39 degrees. This makes the Qiblah 45 degrees south of Madina.

The Holy Prophet turned towards the new Qiblah without hesitation. The old and new Qiblahs can still be seen today in Masjide Dhul Qiblatain. It was one of the Holy Prophet's miracles that he turned exactly to face the Holy Ka'ba without the use of any scientific instrument or computation.

The Holy Ka'ba which serves as the Qiblah for all Muslims today has always been respected by the Arabs, even before the Holy Prophet. It was for this reason that this new Qiblah served to attract more Arabs towards Islam.

As you can see that the change of direction was really a test for the followers of Islam and not the result of the prophet's "anger". The Ka'aba, therefore, holds a great value for Muslims who consider it the ultimate symbol of the oneness of God and of the unshakeable faith of the man they greatly admire and respect, prophet Abraham (peace and blessing of God be with him).

The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.

Lastly, I would like to say to all here that I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, you must be careful in what you say. Stigmatizing a religion (or its central figure) is one of the most foolish, ignorant and disrespectful things one can do. Religion is something that many, if not most people in this world live by. It gives them meaning and a sense of direction in life. Do they really believe in it or is it just something they hold on to for support is not the issue here. The point remains that whether you are an atheist, agnostic or a deist, show some respect for your fellow human beings ... life would be peaceful 😉
 
What you have said fails to take into account the whole aspect of a religion being divine and not just philosophical. Now, it is clear that not all religions are considered to be divinely inspired, which is actually contrary to the definition of the word "religion". Following this train of logic, Hinduism and Buddhism are therefore not religions, but simply "isms" as they are mostly based on mythical figures (Hinduism) and philosophical/spiritual teachings of one man, Buddha (Buddhism). Islam, Christianity and Bhuddism, however are religions by definition, each divinely inspired.
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I like how you insulted lots of people by saying that their religion isn't a religion at all. Congrats!

Last I heard, it could be said that these 'religions' are based on a mythical figure that lives in the sky with a bunch of mythical stories to accompany this figure.

 
The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.
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grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
What you have said fails to take into account the whole aspect of a religion being divine and not just philosophical. Now, it is clear that not all religions are considered to be divinely inspired, which is actually contrary to the definition of the word "religion". Following this train of logic, Hinduism and Buddhism are therefore not religions, but simply "isms" as they are mostly based on mythical figures (Hinduism) and philosophical/spiritual teachings of one man, Buddha (Buddhism). Islam, Christianity and Bhuddism, however are religions by definition, each divinely inspired.
Click to expand...

I like how you insulted lots of people by saying that their religion isn't a religion at all. Congrats!

Last I heard, it could be said that these 'religions' are based on a mythical figure that lives in the sky with a bunch of mythical stories to accompany this figure.
Click to expand...

The word "religion" as we use it today includes all systems of beliefs: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Zoroastrianism etc. In the context of my earlier post, I was speaking of "religion" as it is defined in the English language: "A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny". Many of these religions do not have a divine figure, but are rather spiritual/philosophical in nature. I am not judging any of these religions or saying that they are misguded or wrong. I I haven't insulted anyone. If you are bent upon taking the wrong meaning out of something, go right ahead.

And yes, some of these religions do have mythical figures which is entirely different from the supernatural figure of the Abrahamic religions: God.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
What you have said fails to take into account the whole aspect of a religion being divine and not just philosophical. Now, it is clear that not all religions are considered to be divinely inspired, which is actually contrary to the definition of the word "religion". Following this train of logic, Hinduism and Buddhism are therefore not religions, but simply "isms" as they are mostly based on mythical figures (Hinduism) and philosophical/spiritual teachings of one man, Buddha (Buddhism). Islam, Christianity and Bhuddism, however are religions by definition, each divinely inspired.
Click to expand...

I like how you insulted lots of people by saying that their religion isn't a religion at all. Congrats!

Last I heard, it could be said that these 'religions' are based on a mythical figure that lives in the sky with a bunch of mythical stories to accompany this figure.
Click to expand...

The word "religion" as we use it today includes all systems of beliefs: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Zoroastrianism etc. In the context of my earlier post, I was speaking of "religion" as it is defined in the English language: "A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny". Many of these religions do not have a divine figure, but are rather spiritual/philosophical in nature. I am not judging any of these religions or saying that they are misguded or wrong. I I haven't insulted anyone. If you are bent upon taking the wrong meaning out of something, go right ahead.

And yes, some of these religions do have mythical figures which is entirely different from the supernatural figure of the Abrahamic religions: God.
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Wow, you are very hypocritical and insulting to many people. If you feel that those religions are based off of mythical figures and cannot be divinely inspired, what about your religion? I could easily say that your religion is based off of an illiterate man and a mythical sky daddy.
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.
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grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.
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I have merely stated the position of Islam as a religion. This is what Muslims all over the world believe. Yes, I think that Islam is the only true religion, in the same way as a Christian thinks that Christianity is the only way to salvation and so on and so forth. Are we calling each other's religion inferior? No.

If a Christian comes up to me and says that he does not believe in the oneness of God or the prophethood of Muhammad, fine by me. Of course these religions have differences, very pronounced differences. Otherwise, wouldn't they be the same? How does what I have said lead you to think that I am debasing other religions?
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.
Click to expand...

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.
Click to expand...

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.
 
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Originally posted by: Dari
While it?s debatable as to which religion is older, Hinduism or Buddhism, there is no doubt that Hinduism is the major origin of every religion on Earth. I?m going to concentrate on Western religions. From India, this belief traveled to Persia and was the foundation of the Magi system, of which Judaism is a derivative. Indians also colonized Ethiopia, which colonized and developed Egypt. From the Ethiopian/Egyptian System came the Rituals, of which Freemasonry and Christianity were derived.

Now, every religion has a more esoteric core. In that mystery religion you can find the origins of the popular religion. In Judaism, it?s the Kabala. In Christianity Freemasonry, it?s the Egyptian Rituals. Like Hinduism, there is a supreme God. However, there are three major avatars of that God, namely the Creator, Preserver, and Regenerator. Even those three have sub-avatars, but they are all characteristics of the Supreme God. Hence, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. The same is true in the Kabala and Egyptian Rituals, where there are three major deities, but they are all the same. It is the Trinity in Unity. Now why would leaders of these particular religions keep an inner and outer shell? Because if the masses found out that their religion was based on another, they would simply go to that source. So, to keep their flock in check, the leaders taught the literal (meanings), added individuality, while keeping the ultimate truth close to their chest.

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.
The more important fact here is that Muhammed took Judaism at face value, without studying the Kabala. Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism, it simply leaves out all the complexities, history, and culture that makes it and its derivates what they are. Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammed took the stories of the Torah and New Testament at face value, instead of realizing their allegorical interpretations.

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.


EDIT: I'm neither Indian or Hindu.
Click to expand...


Nice post. Some links and background from other sources would have been nice, but this is far and away better than the usual sophomoric garbage in here.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.
Click to expand...

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.
Click to expand...

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.
Click to expand...

Good question. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, condemn the follower of other faiths to hell, no doubt about that. This doesn't mean that Christians, Jews and Muslims must continually engage in conflict or chastise each other's religions. Again, speaking only for Islam, a Muslim is required by God to respect all life, regardless of its origin, ethnicity, race, colour, cast or any other social distinction. Also, a Muslim is humble and not arrogant in that he/she doesn't judge the fate of others. This is the job of God and God alone.
 
Your knowledge (or lack of) is showing. Muhammed was instructed to pray towards Mecca after the Heijra because that is where the Ka'bah is.
 
GreatBarracuda, you've failed to understand the purpose of my original post, which was to explain the historical aspect of Western religions and where the Prophet Muhammed went wrong. I don't really care about the beliefs portion caused it's all subjective.

Furthermore, many of the stories told in the Bible are just that, stories. They never happened. Jesus Christ is based upon Krishna. Read up on Anacalypsis by Godfrey Higgins and maybe you'll be enlightened.

Originally posted by: Czar
Islam and Christianity are basicly both very popular cults of Judaism
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Judaism and Christianity are two very different religions that came from the same source. To add further confusion, Christianity is older than Judaism because it is 90% Egyptian and 10% Judaism. The Jewish part was conveniently added about 2000 years ago. By the way, most of the stories in the first four books of the New Testament were originally advertisement for Christianity. Where did they come from? You guessed it, the Egyptian Rituals.

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Freemasonry is a bit more complicated than what you take it for. Modern freemasonry is based upon Egyptian Rituals.
Click to expand...
are you a native English speaker?

you can't be an American or a Christian or you wouldn't try to attach free-masonry and Christianity so closely.

even trying to attach free-masons to Egyptians is like trying to attach druids to the Wicca?s of today, wiccans are only attached to druidic practices in that they "say" they are, not that they actually are in any way.

Turning from your sin and following the narrow path of Righteousness that Jesus walked does smack of the hindu great unending path, but what you don?t take into account is the individual.

Hindu is about the perfection of the soul through spiritual rebirth, Christianity teaches that, through faith in Christ, we?ll be resurrected in perfected physical bodies to sit eternally united with Christ next to God.
Click to expand...

Study Freemasonry and you'll understand what I'm talking about.


 
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Your knowledge (or lack of) is showing. Muhammed was instructed to pray towards Mecca after the Heijra because that is where the Ka'bah is.
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That is from the Koran. I'm talking history here. Please understand the difference.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.
Click to expand...

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.
Click to expand...

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.
Click to expand...

Good question. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, condemn the follower of other faiths to hell, no doubt about that. This doesn't mean that Christians, Jews and Muslims must continually engage in conflict or chastise each other's religions. Again, speaking only for Islam, a Muslim is required by God to respect all life, regardless of its origin, ethnicity, race, colour, cast or any other social distinction. Also, a Muslim is humble and not arrogant in that he/she doesn't judge the fate of others. This is the job of God and God alone.
Click to expand...


Actually Hell, as in a place of punishment, is a modern Christian idea. It was later adopted by Reformed Judaism and Islam.

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
GreatBarracuda, you've failed to understand the purpose of my original post, which was to explain the historical aspect of Western religions and where the Prophet Muhammed went wrong. I don't really care about the beliefs portion caused it's all subjective.

Furthermore, many of the stories told in the Bible are just that, stories. They never happened. Jesus Christ is based upon Krishna. Read up on Anacalypsis by Godfrey Higgins and maybe you'll be enlightened.

Judaism and Christianity are two very different religions that came from the same source. To add further confusion, Christianity is older than Judaism because it is 90% Egyptian and 10% Judaism. The Jewish part was conveniently added about 2000 years ago. By the way, most of the stories in the first four books of the New Testament were originally advertisement for Christianity. Where did they come from? You guessed it, the Egyptian Rituals.
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Ok, firstly, Islam and Judaism are not western religions, they are eastern/middle-eastern. Even Christianity is middle-eastern. If by western you mean the practice of Christianity in the west as we know it today, then that's ok.

Now, you talk of a religion and its historical origins as two different things. Actually, if a religion cannot be proven correct historically, then its credibility is severely damaged. I can't speak for Christianity and the Bible, but the events and the people that the Qur'an talks about are not just "stories". "They never happened", according to you. Don't make it sound like they didn't happen, period. This is just your opinion and yours alone. Same argument goes for Muhammad being wrong, according to you.

Jesus is based upon Krishna? I don't believe that at all, but nevertheless, I will take a look at the reading that you mention, when I have time. Judaism and Christianity come from the same source, yes that's true. Islam comes from the same source as well, Abraham. You are entirelly correct in this regard. But you are assigning these percentage numbers like we're talking about some chemicals!?

No, I don't share your "historical" view of these religions. Speaking, again for Islam, if you doubt the veracity of the Qur'an, I can help you in that regard.
 
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: Dari
GreatBarracuda, you've failed to understand the purpose of my original post, which was to explain the historical aspect of Western religions and where the Prophet Muhammed went wrong. I don't really care about the beliefs portion caused it's all subjective.

Furthermore, many of the stories told in the Bible are just that, stories. They never happened. Jesus Christ is based upon Krishna. Read up on Anacalypsis by Godfrey Higgins and maybe you'll be enlightened.

Judaism and Christianity are two very different religions that came from the same source. To add further confusion, Christianity is older than Judaism because it is 90% Egyptian and 10% Judaism. The Jewish part was conveniently added about 2000 years ago. By the way, most of the stories in the first four books of the New Testament were originally advertisement for Christianity. Where did they come from? You guessed it, the Egyptian Rituals.
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...Now, you talk of a religion and its historical origins as two different things. Actually, if a religion cannot be proven correct historically, then its credibility is severely damaged...
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Whoa, be careful there because you're assuming that beliefs is equal to facts. You can believe whatever you want, but facts are facts. They are two different things.
 
Originally posted by: Dari

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.
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Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and some other smaller Asian religions are like that.
 
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