The Problem with Islam

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.

Good question. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, condemn the follower of other faiths to hell, no doubt about that. This doesn't mean that Christians, Jews and Muslims must continually engage in conflict or chastise each other's religions. Again, speaking only for Islam, a Muslim is required by God to respect all life, regardless of its origin, ethnicity, race, colour, cast or any other social distinction. Also, a Muslim is humble and not arrogant in that he/she doesn't judge the fate of others. This is the job of God and God alone.

yup..but the two things are a fundamental contradiction. treat everyone with respect, but everyone that believes other than your group are hell bound sinners who reject not some minor thing, but reject god himself and are thus worthy of no repect at all.

 

[Whitecloak]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.

Good question. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, condemn the follower of other faiths to hell, no doubt about that. This doesn't mean that Christians, Jews and Muslims must continually engage in conflict or chastise each other's religions. Again, speaking only for Islam, a Muslim is required by God to respect all life, regardless of its origin, ethnicity, race, colour, cast or any other social distinction. Also, a Muslim is humble and not arrogant in that he/she doesn't judge the fate of others. This is the job of God and God alone.

Actually Hell, as in a place of punishment, is a modern Christian idea. It was later adopted by Reformed Judaism and Islam.

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.

This may not be exactly what you are looking but still the following sanskrit sloka comes close.

Akasath patitantoyam Yatha gacchati sagaram.
Sarva deva namaskarah Sri Kesavam pratigacchati.

The meaning is as follows

Even as the various drops of rain reach the ocean

Prayers to all deities Reach the Supreme Being

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: whitecloak

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

The message of Islam, no doubt has many similarities with Christianity and Judaism and why shouldn't it? According to Islam, the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and so was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Jesus and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) who delivered the same message of the oneness of God to their people. What you must realize however, is the fact that Islam considers Judaism and Christianity to be incomplete and modified in one way or another. We believe that the true teachings of the prophet David/Moses and Jesus have been corrupted, refashioned and remoulded into something that these prophets will never accept to have taught. The Qur'an asserts this over and over again.

grounds for considernig other groups inferior built right into the religion is just disaster in waiting.

I agree. But what religions do not condemn others for actually believing in another religion or set of beliefs?.

Good question. Islam, Christianity and Judaism, condemn the follower of other faiths to hell, no doubt about that. This doesn't mean that Christians, Jews and Muslims must continually engage in conflict or chastise each other's religions. Again, speaking only for Islam, a Muslim is required by God to respect all life, regardless of its origin, ethnicity, race, colour, cast or any other social distinction. Also, a Muslim is humble and not arrogant in that he/she doesn't judge the fate of others. This is the job of God and God alone.

Actually Hell, as in a place of punishment, is a modern Christian idea. It was later adopted by Reformed Judaism and Islam.

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.

This may not be exactly what you are looking but still the following sanskrit sloka comes close.

Akasath patitantoyam Yatha gacchati sagaram.
Sarva deva namaskarah Sri Kesavam pratigacchati.

The meaning is as follows

Even as the various drops of rain reach the ocean

Prayers to all deities Reach the Supreme Being

I haven't read that one but it's awefully similar. Thanks.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Dari

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.

Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and some other smaller Asian religions are like that.

Wow GJ showing your knowledge base. First of all they are not Asian religions, they are Indian. Also Sikhism SPECIFICALLY believes in one god. This was one of Guru Nanak Dev's chief reforms of Hinduism.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Dari

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.

Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and some other smaller Asian religions are like that.

Wow GJ showing your knowledge base. First of all they are not Asian religions, they are Indian. Also Sikhism SPECIFICALLY believes in one god. This was one of Guru Nanak Dev's chief reforms of Hinduism.

NEWSFLASH: India is in Asia. Hinduism technically has one 'God', too. GJ showing your knowledge base.

 

[jai6638]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Dari

EDIT: If there are any Hindus here that can bring up a quote from the Geeta it'd be great, but I remember reading in there in which God says that it doesn't matter which gods people worship because in the end they all worship Him/it.

Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and some other smaller Asian religions are like that.

Wow GJ showing your knowledge base. First of all they are not Asian religions, they are Indian. Also Sikhism SPECIFICALLY believes in one god. This was one of Guru Nanak Dev's chief reforms of Hinduism.

Hinduism technically has one 'God', too.

Hinduism technically has one 'God' too which i personally belieive to be Krishna although in the Upanishads, this god is given the name 'BRAHMAN' ( not to be mistaken for BRAHMA )

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Originally posted by: Dari

Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism,

What you said in that line is extremely misinformed. Maybe you should get an English translation of the Prayer that Hindu Brides/Grooms have to recite at weddings. It goes somewhat like, "I hereby promise, in the presence of all 300,000 gods (i'm not exaggerating. every bollywood movie from the 80's had a wedding scene complete with the actual mantras) , to love, honor...."

Clearly, hinduism is NOT monotheist. You are not when you say you're neither hindu/indian: no hindu would claim that hindus believe in only ONE god. and every indian has a hindu friend, is a hindu...or has atleast seen enough bollywood movies!

"Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam. "
Dude, the Prophet[pbuh] was not some dude smoking pot in the 60's who decided, "Hey, I oughta start a cult" The Prophet said that he is a Messenger of the same God who sent Moses(Musa) and Jesus(Isa). the basic feel is this: Islam preaches that the world was never too "happy" with their religions. People never respected their religion and their Holy Books. People started "modifying, adding and deleting passages" from their holy books and future generations started practicing altered versions of their religion. For instance Islam calls Jesus the Apostle of God, not his Son. Islam preaches that God would never be so cruel to his own messenger. That Jesus Christ never died - he ascended to heaven ALIVE. That God gave a random man(maybe a man created overnight) the face/appearence of Jesus and it was HE who got crucified....

Islam preaches that Allah sent his Last Prophet and His Last Book, The Koran, (read LAST book...Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the religions of the same god, according to the Prophet) to clear up issues that were going wrong with the previous scriptures.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop here. Read a book on Islam that comes WITHOUT a sensational title or a picture of Bin Laden on the cover.

 

[0roo0roo]

no, he was a guy that started a cult. the best way to get new members is to build on top of other religions.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, he was a guy that started a cult. the best way to get new members is to build on top of other religions.

Have you completely ignored what I have said? You want to go on making ludicrous and completely inane remarks, no one is stopping you.

theprodigalrebel

That was quite blunt, but maybe this is what people respond to. I tried to be polite and it goes over the heads of some here. There are many uninformed people here, whose knowledge of Islam comes from some misguided piece of work that they read on the Internet and then consider themselves the ultimate authority on the subject. You are right in saying that Hinduism is not monotheistic, which it is clearly not in any way, shape or form. I'm completely amazed by these sensational relationships between the fundamentals of these religions that Dari is pulling out of thin air here.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Dari

Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism,

What you said in that line is extremely misinformed. Maybe you should get an English translation of the Prayer that Hindu Brides/Grooms have to recite at weddings. It goes somewhat like, "I hereby promise, in the presence of all 300,000 gods (i'm not exaggerating. every bollywood movie from the 80's had a wedding scene complete with the actual mantras) , to love, honor...."

Clearly, hinduism is NOT monotheist. You are not when you say you're neither hindu/indian: no hindu would claim that hindus believe in only ONE god. and every indian has a hindu friend, is a hindu...or has atleast seen enough bollywood movies!

"Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam. "
Dude, the Prophet[pbuh] was not some dude smoking pot in the 60's who decided, "Hey, I oughta start a cult" The Prophet said that he is a Messenger of the same God who sent Moses(Musa) and Jesus(Isa). the basic feel is this: Islam preaches that the world was never too "happy" with their religions. People never respected their religion and their Holy Books. People started "modifying, adding and deleting passages" from their holy books and future generations started practicing altered versions of their religion. For instance Islam calls Jesus the Apostle of God, not his Son. Islam preaches that God would never be so cruel to his own messenger. That Jesus Christ never died - he ascended to heaven ALIVE. That God gave a random man(maybe a man created overnight) the face/appearence of Jesus and it was HE who got crucified....

Islam preaches that Allah sent his Last Prophet and His Last Book, The Koran, (read LAST book...Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the religions of the same god, according to the Prophet) to clear up issues that were going wrong with the previous scriptures.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop here. Read a book on Islam that comes WITHOUT a sensational title or a picture of Bin Laden on the cover.

I think you need to re-read the original post. I also think you need to read up on Hinduism. Again, all 300,000 gods (as you quoted) are avatars of the Supreme God, AUM. They are one and the same. It really isn't that difficult to understand if you study it.

 

[RabidMongoose]

It's really amazing to see GreatBarracuda have the audacity and ignorance to insult other religions and then spout out information that is completely incorrect about one of the religions that he insulted.

How hypocritical can he get?

 

[jai6638]

Again, all 300,000 gods (as you quoted) are avatars of the Supreme God, AUM. They are one and the same.

True! although i dont think the Supreme God is named Aum! the Upanishads specify the Supreme god to be 'BRAHMAN' ( not to be mistaken for Brahma ) while the sect i belong to ( called PUSHTIMARG ) thinks of Krishna to be the Supreme God!

 

[imported_namaste]

hi everyone!

i am a hindu-jain (atheist), born in india and a uk resident

i think that a hindu can be a monotheist, a polytheist or a atheist. there is no place in the vedas that say that one must believe in god...and this i feel is true as along as you are a honest individual who does his/her best to be a good person and not intentionally hurt another living soul.

lord krishna like many great souls (mahatma gandhi, M.L. King, mahavir, Jesus.........so many) that have set foot on this planet are what we hindus call Bhagwan. these were mortals, normal human beings, who did many good things for living things in general and so are respected. Many hindus think that they are Gods. this is a common misunderstanding but there is no right or wrong in this...because if the individual feels that a particular bhagwan is more closer or beloved to them they can regard him/her as god.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Dari

Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism,

What you said in that line is extremely misinformed. Maybe you should get an English translation of the Prayer that Hindu Brides/Grooms have to recite at weddings. It goes somewhat like, "I hereby promise, in the presence of all 300,000 gods (i'm not exaggerating. every bollywood movie from the 80's had a wedding scene complete with the actual mantras) , to love, honor...."

Clearly, hinduism is NOT monotheist. You are not when you say you're neither hindu/indian: no hindu would claim that hindus believe in only ONE god. and every indian has a hindu friend, is a hindu...or has atleast seen enough bollywood movies!

"Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam. "
Dude, the Prophet[pbuh] was not some dude smoking pot in the 60's who decided, "Hey, I oughta start a cult" The Prophet said that he is a Messenger of the same God who sent Moses(Musa) and Jesus(Isa). the basic feel is this: Islam preaches that the world was never too "happy" with their religions. People never respected their religion and their Holy Books. People started "modifying, adding and deleting passages" from their holy books and future generations started practicing altered versions of their religion. For instance Islam calls Jesus the Apostle of God, not his Son. Islam preaches that God would never be so cruel to his own messenger. That Jesus Christ never died - he ascended to heaven ALIVE. That God gave a random man(maybe a man created overnight) the face/appearence of Jesus and it was HE who got crucified....

Islam preaches that Allah sent his Last Prophet and His Last Book, The Koran, (read LAST book...Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the religions of the same god, according to the Prophet) to clear up issues that were going wrong with the previous scriptures.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop here. Read a book on Islam that comes WITHOUT a sensational title or a picture of Bin Laden on the cover.

I think you need to re-read the original post. I also think you need to read up on Hinduism. Again, all 300,000 gods (as you quoted) are avatars of the Supreme God, AUM. They are one and the same. It really isn't that difficult to understand if you study it.

This is correct. They are all aspects of one Supreme Being. But Aum or Om has nothing to do with it. To my knowledge Om was the sound that was heard during the creation of the universe. When you pronounce AUM: A - emerges from the throat, originating in the region of the navel U - rolls over the tongue M - ends on the lips A - waking, U - dreaming, M - sleeping It is the sum and substance of all the words that can emanate from the human throat. It is the primordial fundamental sound symbolic of the Universal Absolute (from hinduism weekly). I think you are talking about Brahman.

Theprodigalrebel, don't understand how Dari's posting on Islam have anything to do with information ascertained from a book bearing the likeness of Osama Bin Laden. He seems to actually have taken a completely unbiased, erudite stance in his research. I am also quite amused by the fact that you get your information on Hinduism from Bollywood movies which are completely against the Hindu faith. The wealth, sex, and wanting portrayed in these flms is a complete reversal of traditional Hindu society and are more a result of Western influence than anything else.

?

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: Dari
While it?s debatable as to which religion is older, Hinduism or Buddhism, there is no doubt that Hinduism is the major origin of every religion on Earth. I?m going to concentrate on Western religions. From India, this belief traveled to Persia and was the foundation of the Magi system, of which Judaism is a derivative. Indians also colonized Ethiopia, which colonized and developed Egypt. From the Ethiopian/Egyptian System came the Rituals, of which Freemasonry and Christianity were derived.

Now, every religion has a more esoteric core. In that mystery religion you can find the origins of the popular religion. In Judaism, it?s the Kabala. In Christianity Freemasonry, it?s the Egyptian Rituals. Like Hinduism, there is a supreme God. However, there are three major avatars of that God, namely the Creator, Preserver, and Regenerator. Even those three have sub-avatars, but they are all characteristics of the Supreme God. Hence, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. The same is true in the Kabala and Egyptian Rituals, where there are three major deities, but they are all the same. It is the Trinity in Unity. Now why would leaders of these particular religions keep an inner and outer shell? Because if the masses found out that their religion was based on another, they would simply go to that source. So, to keep their flock in check, the leaders taught the literal (meanings), added individuality, while keeping the ultimate truth close to their chest.

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.
The more important fact here is that Muhammed took Judaism at face value, without studying the Kabala. Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism, it simply leaves out all the complexities, history, and culture that makes it and its derivates what they are. Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammed took the stories of the Torah and New Testament at face value, instead of realizing their allegorical interpretations.

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.


EDIT: I'm neither Indian or Hindu.

How did this thread get to be so long? The originator doesn't know history or religion at all. Hinduism is much older then buddhism 1000BC to 560 BC. Hindusim is a polytheistic religion. Kabala isn't normal study for jews, Christianity comes from judaism.

If you believe Islam then Allah told Muhammad what to write in the Koran so the whole premise of this is stupid.

 

[dmens]

Islam is the most intolerant of all major faiths. When will they stop dreaming of the global umma and join the rest of civilized society?

 

[imported_Condor]

is Muslims!