The Problem with Islam

[Dari]

While it?s debatable as to which religion is older, Hinduism or Buddhism, there is no doubt that Hinduism is the major origin of every religion on Earth. I?m going to concentrate on Western religions. From India, this belief traveled to Persia and was the foundation of the Magi system, of which Judaism is a derivative. Indians also colonized Ethiopia, which colonized and developed Egypt. From the Ethiopian/Egyptian System came the Rituals, of which Freemasonry and Christianity were derived.

Now, every religion has a more esoteric core. In that mystery religion you can find the origins of the popular religion. In Judaism, it?s the Kabala. In Christianity Freemasonry, it?s the Egyptian Rituals. Like Hinduism, there is a supreme God. However, there are three major avatars of that God, namely the Creator, Preserver, and Regenerator. Even those three have sub-avatars, but they are all characteristics of the Supreme God. Hence, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. The same is true in the Kabala and Egyptian Rituals, where there are three major deities, but they are all the same. It is the Trinity in Unity. Now why would leaders of these particular religions keep an inner and outer shell? Because if the masses found out that their religion was based on another, they would simply go to that source. So, to keep their flock in check, the leaders taught the literal (meanings), added individuality, while keeping the ultimate truth close to their chest.

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.
The more important fact here is that Muhammed took Judaism at face value, without studying the Kabala. Hence, the first creed of Islam is that ?There is no God but Allah.? While that is similar to the religion of origin, Hinduism, it simply leaves out all the complexities, history, and culture that makes it and its derivates what they are. Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammed took the stories of the Torah and New Testament at face value, instead of realizing their allegorical interpretations.

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.


EDIT: I'm neither Indian or Hindu.

 

[yllus]

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.

I've been a student of Islam for a lot of years and I've never heard that before. Got a reference I can look at? I'm not affirming/denying anything, just interested in if this is correct.

Have you read the Koran? It is a rather literal piece of work, but also contains many lessons to be derived from the stories of people and events of the time. I also can't say I see much of a point to this thread. It seems a little hypocritical; I sort of doubt Jesus Christ graduated from Jerusalem University (class of '00!) himself - or wrote the New Testament, same case with Muhammed and the Koran.

 

[CycloWizard]

Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

 

[Aimster]

Allah Akbar,

God is Great

 

[illustri]

umm hinduism is undoubedly older than buddhism... as for hinduism being the mother of all religions -- egypt is older than any vedas by 2000 years, and the mesopotamian civilizations are older than that by some millenia

and even before "civilization" the peoples of africa, europe, asia have worshiped in their own belief structures since humanity speciated

if you can't get that right then everything following is suspect

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

Freemasonry is a bit more complicated than what you take it for. Modern freemasonry is based upon Egyptian Rituals.

Originally posted by: illustri
umm hinduism is undoubedly older than buddhism... as for hinduism being the mother of all religions -- egypt is older than any vedas by 2000 years, and the mesopotamian civilizations are older than that by some millenia

and even before "civilization" the peoples of africa, europe, asia have worshiped in their own belief structures since humanity speciated

if you can't get that right then everything following is suspect

Well, Ethiopia colonized Egypt. And, according to the historian Eusebius and other ancients, settled in Egypt durinf the time of Amenophis. Even Herodotus gets into the act by stating there there were two Ethiopias, one in Egypt and another in India. He got his source from Egyptian priests.

Philostratus stated that the Gymnosophists of Ethiopia, who settled near the Nile River, descended from the Brahmins of India.

Another ancient writer, Eustathius, stated that the Ethiopians came from India.

Do you see a recurring theme here?

In fact, during World War I, when some of the Indian soldiers were stationed in Egypt, they immediately recognized the Egyptian Gods as their own.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Dari
Freemasonry is a bit more complicated than what you take it for. Modern freemasonry is based upon Egyptian Rituals.

Um, when did being 'complicated' qualify something as a religion? 😕
When did I say Freemasonry wasn't complicated? :even more confused;

 

[illustri]

Dari
I have never heard nor can find any of the claims you make,
hinduism in any sense of the descriptor came from a fusion of the aryan culture which came from the asian steppes and the dravidian culture which was indigenous to southern india, all this occured long after the religions of the tigrus valley and beyound -- its earliest inception was 2000BC

the similarities you find between the religions of the world is less a statement of origin and precedence, but a testament to the human condition that we all enjoy similarily

/and the trade routes
//don't forget the trade routes

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

Gerald Massey

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: illustri
Dari
I have never heard nor can find any of the claims you make,
hinduism in any sense of the descriptor came from a fusion of the aryan culture which came from the asian steppes and the dravidian culture which was indigenous to southern india, all this occured long after the religions of the tigrus valley and beyound -- its earliest inception was 2000BC

the similarities you find between the religions of the world is less a statement of origin and precedence, but a testament to the human condition that we all enjoy similarily

/and the trade routes
//don't forget the trade routes

Try reading this book, sir.. I believe I mentioned it the other day to someone else on this board.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

Gerald Massey

Well, if one man thinks so, it must be true. Obviously two things on earth cannot exist in parallel and be unrelated. :roll:

What is the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to debunk all religion by throwing out conjecture?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: illustri
Dari
I have never heard nor can find any of the claims you make,
hinduism in any sense of the descriptor came from a fusion of the aryan culture which came from the asian steppes and the dravidian culture which was indigenous to southern india, all this occured long after the religions of the tigrus valley and beyound -- its earliest inception was 2000BC

the similarities you find between the religions of the world is less a statement of origin and precedence, but a testament to the human condition that we all enjoy similarily

/and the trade routes
//don't forget the trade routes

Dude stop quoting what you learned in high school and college. This is why I am inherently distrustful of most Western educational institutions these days. The Aryan invasion theory is steadily being disproved as a part of simplistic British propaganda to explain similiarities in language and Pre-Christian culture between India/Iran and the European continent. Get on the cutting edge if you want to discuss these things man!

 

[0roo0roo]

whats new, religions arise in times of incredible ignorance.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: illustri
Dari
I have never heard nor can find any of the claims you make,
hinduism in any sense of the descriptor came from a fusion of the aryan culture which came from the asian steppes and the dravidian culture which was indigenous to southern india, all this occured long after the religions of the tigrus valley and beyound -- its earliest inception was 2000BC

the similarities you find between the religions of the world is less a statement of origin and precedence, but a testament to the human condition that we all enjoy similarily

/and the trade routes
//don't forget the trade routes

Dude stop quoting what you learned in high school and college. This is why I am inherently distrustful of most Western educational institutions these days. The Aryan invasion theory is steadily being disproved as a part of simplistic British propaganda to explain similiarities in language and Pre-Christian culture between India/Iran and the European continent. Get on the cutting edge if you want to discuss these things man!

I'm fully aware of the contested aryan invasion theory in relation to the indus valley culture
thats why i made sure to mention the bolded text in my original post
whats for certain is that no "culture" ever independently and separately carves out a belief system as widespread as hinduism on its own

 

[tnitsuj]

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.


This is not true. Most of your other stuff is conjecture as well. And what do the Freemasons have to do with anything?

 

[Aimster]

Any new religion today is called a cult 😛. Wonder if the current religions today will be around in 10,000 years.

 

[0roo0roo]

the atmosphere of today is less hospitable to new religions. its the mass communications, the internet. its not like in the past where people were relatively isolated and there wasn't anything near photographs or recordings for verification. standards were much lower for truth..there was no real science, people couldn't explain so much i'm sure they were ripe for belief. i mean look at now..with all the proof some people believe wacky conspiracys still, like that elvis lives, or we didn't land on the moon. stuff just decades ago. not hard to believe people could be duped much easier on a large scale long ago.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

During the early days of Islam, the Prophet Muhammed aligned his new religion with that of the Christians and Jews, rather than his tribal beliefs. He originally urged his followers to bow towards Jerusalem while praying. However, the Jews in Mecca and Medina were hostile towards this new religion and spurned the Prophet. Angry, the Prophet Muhammed told his followers to turn to Mecca for prayer.


This is not true. Most of your other stuff is conjecture as well. And what do the Freemasons have to do with anything?

The truth is out there, you just have to find it. I spent years studying the history of religion and nations because I never understood the different variations. If you don't believe me, go and study it as well. Don't just dismiss it like some ignorant sap.

As for Freemasonry, I think I'll leave it alone. Most people here don't even understand the outer layer anyway.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

Gerald Massey

Well, if one man thinks so, it must be true. Obviously two things on earth cannot exist in parallel and be unrelated. :roll:

What is the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to debunk all religion by throwing out conjecture?

Are you serious? One man? There are many Egyptologists, including but not limited to John Jackson, that also believe this. I'll have a full list of anthropologists that have written on this subject when I come home tonight. Maybe that'll help in doing your homework.

As for the purpose of this thread, it's to point out how Islam took the allegorical and believed it to be the literal. This is dangerous because it turns myth to reality. It's also dangerous because misconceptions are at its core, which can lead to huge problems down the road. Why? Because even the scholars of Islam have little room to maneuver in interpretations while older religions can always turn to the esoteric and find the spiritual meaning.

Perhaps this is the reason why Islam is known as a warrior's religion.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Dari


As for the purpose of this thread, it's to point out how Islam took the allegorical and believed it to be the literal. This is dangerous because it turns myth to reality. It's also dangerous because misconceptions are at its core, which can lead to huge problems down the road.

Sounds like the decision making process used by the Bush administration. And it definitely is causing huge problems down the road.

Is the Bush administration a cult or a religion, Dari?

Is Bush their prophet?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Dari
The truth is out there, you just have to find it. I spent years studying the history of religion and nations because I never understood the different variations. If you don't believe me, go and study it as well. Don't just dismiss it like some ignorant sap.

As for Freemasonry, I think I'll leave it alone. Most people here don't even understand the outer layer anyway.

If you spent years studying it and the point of this thread is to tell us all how stupid we are for following a religion, I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than 'spend a few years learning why you're so dumb.'

Originally posted by: Dari
Are you serious? One man? There are many Egyptologists, including but not limited to John Jackson, that also believe this. I'll have a full list of anthropologists that have written on this subject when I come home tonight. Maybe that'll help in doing your homework.

As for the purpose of this thread, it's to point out how Islam took the allegorical and believed it to be the literal. This is dangerous because it turns myth to reality. It's also dangerous because misconceptions are at its core, which can lead to huge problems down the road. Why? Because even the scholars of Islam have little room to maneuver in interpretations while older religions can always turn to the esoteric and find the spiritual meaning.

Perhaps this is the reason why Islam is known as a warrior's religion.

There are probably equally many people who think everything you're saying is completely bunk. Does that make it more or less true? This is your thread. My homework is your homework. If you want to tell me how stupid I am for following one of these religions you're going to have to do better.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Silly me, I thought Christianity was a descendent of Judaism. Not sure how you managed to attempt to make the Freemasons a religion, but A for effort or something.

Gerald Massey

Well, if one man thinks so, it must be true. Obviously two things on earth cannot exist in parallel and be unrelated. :roll:

What is the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to debunk all religion by throwing out conjecture?

Are you serious? One man? There are many Egyptologists, including but not limited to John Jackson, that also believe this. I'll have a full list of anthropologists that have written on this subject when I come home tonight. Maybe that'll help in doing your homework.

As for the purpose of this thread, it's to point out how Islam took the allegorical and believed it to be the literal. This is dangerous because it turns myth to reality. It's also dangerous because misconceptions are at its core, which can lead to huge problems down the road. Why? Because even the scholars of Islam have little room to maneuver in interpretations while older religions can always turn to the esoteric and find the spiritual meaning.

Perhaps this is the reason why Islam is known as a warrior's religion.

true....unlike say christianity where the bible is written by men and falliable in a way...the koran is essentially direct word of god through the prophet😛 wiggle room? not really....the fundamentalists have very solid cases against interpretation. and worse the prophet combined religion with state power and military.....

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
whats new, religions arise in times of incredible ignorance.

So true.

But, what I wish is for someone to put together a New NRSV version of the Bible that has the stories in the order in which they were written, instead of how they were edited, redacted, and intermingled by Ezra. It's amazing the difference his editing made in the history of the world.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
whats new, religions arise in times of incredible ignorance.

So true.

But, what I wish is for someone to put together a New NRSV version of the Bible that has the stories in the order in which they were written, instead of how they were edited, redacted, and intermingled by Ezra. It's amazing the difference his editing made in the history of the world.

They teach classes about that here at U of Michigan. Every semester there's kids that break down and cry after they faced some of the facts (some parts of bible were left out where jesus is less than perfect etc. )

 

[piasabird]

Hence, the Prophet Muhammed didn?t do his homework when starting Islam.

First of all Muhammed could not even read and write.

However, I find it strange that Muhammed claims to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel. The same angel mentioned in the Bible. How could the same angel be from 2 different Gods?