Is it the passion that they feel about a few issues? I think its more about the conservative nature that makes them push back against what they think is normal and right. Passion is not what I see as the problem personally.
Is it the passion that they feel about a few issues? I think its more about the conservative nature that makes them push back against what they think is normal and right. Passion is not what I see as the problem personally.
OJ? Really?
If Libs are furious with our Conservative brethren for making Trump president it's completely understandable. I get that it's sometimes difficult to admit to having made a yuuge mistake but this is beyond obvious. We tried to warn them in a thousand ways but no, they had to have Trump. Couldn't live without him.
Other than keeping the govt running, there is no more pressing matter of state than removing him from office, one way or another. He disgraces us all.
I wont disagree that it is a bad precedent, I am just saying that the likelihood he gets found guilty of criminal charges is almost nonexistent.
He has a better chance of being taken down over RICO than campaign finance fraud.
I think even Trump didn't realize how little he needed to hide his infidelity from the Family Values Frauds and that's why he wasted his time trying to cover that up. But I don't think conservatives are any less obsessed by morality than they ever have been. It's just that they rationalize anything that would reflect badly on them away. They refuse to see where they are hypocrites. The whole motivation for their kind of morality isn't the self satisfaction that comes from doing the right thing. It is the self satisfaction of ego that depends on a sense of gratification in being better than other people. They depend on moral condemnation of others and it is that they fear happening to them. Their morality can never be questioned by them.
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
- 22,284
- 4,951
- 136
No, actually many of our own service members have been waterboarded in the course of training. SERE ( Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) Training. A required training for pilots and air crews and many others that do service related missions behind enemy lines.
I see they stopped between 2002 and 2007 after it was determined that it was too effective and did not help the students build up a defense against interrogation.
It could be used as torture, but it can be used to obtain information.
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ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,449
- 16,895
- 136
Just stop. There is nothing wrong with admitting when you are wrong. In fact I think being able to admit when you are wrong is a quality personality trait. You should try it and I can almost guarantee the level of respect you'd get would increase dramatically.
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
- 22,284
- 4,951
- 136
I think you are able to think in this cold and sterile manner, devoid of normal human feeling, because you lack imagination. You see waterboarding in terms that can help you feel safe from imagined fear but lack an expansive view that would include waterboarding being applied to yourself or your loved ones unjustly as a means, say, to self incriminate you or them. The road down which the ends are used to justify the means is fought with far more dangers than advantages and must not become the new normal. I believe your kind of thinking is dangerous for the human race. There are lines one can cross that make oneself no different than the enemy. Waterboarding is banned as torture internationally and legally for very good reasons. You are morally too backward to personally be declaring exceptions. Sorry!
The US government has prosecuted people for torture because they waterboarded people.
Fundamental to conservative thinking is the fear that people are basically evil and that only whatever torture they endured as children to conform to whatever sick morality they were conditioned by can make a person possibly safe to be around. The fear of the other is caused by being conditioned to hate yourself as a deviant, and to hide that deviancy behind the mask of public morality as one has been conditioned to accept it. And since there is one truth, that we are all the same, and a million lies about what is other, the conditioned live in a constant state of terror. The unconscious goal of the fearful is the extinction of all other threats and the loneliness of one single surviving ego. Death to all but me.
By Percy Bysshe Shelley
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
By Percy Bysshe Shelley
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
Paratus
Lifer
- Jun 4, 2004
- 17,604
- 15,765
- 146
But even if he admitted it during a press conference and he is actually guilty doesn’t it feel more true that he isn’t guilty? Like these other Feel Facts. (Courtesy of SNL)
And isn’t how it feels the important part?
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
- 22,284
- 4,951
- 136
Are you referring to the Japanese and their many many war crimes they were charged with?
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Someone is making sense and using logic and then there is pcgeek11.
Do you realize how much time effort and money could be saved by the Muller investigation in getting the obvious evidence of criminal guilt everybody with two brain cells knows must obviously exist on Trump if we all thought as you do and had long ago waterboarded him? That bastard would have squealed like a pig.
pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
- 22,284
- 4,951
- 136
Of course there is. That is why waterboarding a President is so much more appropriate than just some common terrorist because a criminal President is so much more dangerous to the nation. You are just too stupid to understand the nature of real threat. You talk like a person who is on his terrorist team trying to protect him from justice. You should definitely be in line for questioning.
I find it self-evident that, more likely than not, the payments were made for the purpose of influencing the election regardless of Cohen's or Pecker's testimony or any other evidence toward motive. Why?
The payment to Stormy Daniels would not have been made if not for the impending election. This is self-evident because not only did the affair occur in 2006 but she published about it in 2011 and other than that of lawsuit for publishing back in 2011, there was no known activity by Trump, a well-established public figure throughout those 10 years, to do anything to keep the story suppressed. That is until he was moments away from becoming President.
Similarly, McDougal was paid by AMI which we learned was really paid by Trump and through AMI for shade. But, again, this occurred in late 2016 as candidate-Trump and never before as public figure Trump when the affair occurred across 2006-7. In that case, there was a new trigger for the payment as McDougal met with reporters at the time. What is of note here is the odd relationship with AMI which seems a way to make sure the hush money works as McDougal was inappropriately led to believe they were interested in publishing the story. It also means that Pecker has a whole host of information of relevance here. If the agreement was made for catch/kill in the run-up to the election or Trump discussed with Pecker doing this in relation to the election, things become crystal clear.
The payment to Stormy Daniels would not have been made if not for the impending election. This is self-evident because not only did the affair occur in 2006 but she published about it in 2011 and other than that of lawsuit for publishing back in 2011, there was no known activity by Trump, a well-established public figure throughout those 10 years, to do anything to keep the story suppressed. That is until he was moments away from becoming President.
Similarly, McDougal was paid by AMI which we learned was really paid by Trump and through AMI for shade. But, again, this occurred in late 2016 as candidate-Trump and never before as public figure Trump when the affair occurred across 2006-7. In that case, there was a new trigger for the payment as McDougal met with reporters at the time. What is of note here is the odd relationship with AMI which seems a way to make sure the hush money works as McDougal was inappropriately led to believe they were interested in publishing the story. It also means that Pecker has a whole host of information of relevance here. If the agreement was made for catch/kill in the run-up to the election or Trump discussed with Pecker doing this in relation to the election, things become crystal clear.
I'd really like to hear your thoughts on why it is bad to own up to your mistakes? I think reality is quite complicated and there are multiple potential goods and bads of each choice. Overall, I skew good for admitting error, as otherwise how could we learn from our mistakes?
For what it's worth, I have been heartened at the ways in which you have shown adaptation to different perspective here. I hope that experience makes it easier for the same to happen in reverse.
I don't think I personally would enjoy life without a continual exchange in learning from another's perspective. I react strongly to the barriers we place in society from doing so.
Yes someone who opposes torture. You really should be ashamed for supporting it.
America is supposed to be a shining light not sink to the depravity of other countries.
As I see it everybody except for rare exceptions believes and acts for the good. The problem is that we are conditioned by our childhood environment to believe what we are taught is the good really is. I believe, also, that depending on how that idea of good was inculcated, whether by love or by fear, determines how willing we will be to hear the opinion of others. That tells me, then, that the only way out of the bias we have that makes us assume we are right at an unconscious level, can't happen by means of logical argument owing to the fact the bias exists as an automatic assumption below the level of awareness, which means in turn, that the process of awakening to self awareness must in part require an intention of will. The ways that can be done, as far as I can see, are a tentative suspension of self judgement and accompanied by an intention to work toward self acceptance of oneself as a fucked up bigot. One of the thoughts that used to drive me crazy as a young seeker of truth was contemplation of the odds that my world view out of billions might be the one that is correct just because I knew it was. Eventually, I learned to see myself humorously as a world class idiot. Of course there was a lot of pain involved in rejecting everything I was taught, and not only from the people who taught me, but the disciplinarian within myself.
So the enemy I see is the feeling that deviance is evil which amounts to a terror of breaking ones conditioning. And since contempt for difference is what put us in chains, contempt for our prisoner state offers the opposite in hope for change.
The point of all this, then, is to tell you how pleased I am that you are in my world. I see in you the offer of the gift of acceptance and I think that is a very great treasure.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,807
- 31,250
- 146
This is what you put forth as your argument that it isn't torture?
lol. you might be dumber than we think you are.
jman19
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2000
- 11,225
- 664
- 126
In other words - it's torture. Which is typically used to "obtain information" - that doesn't make it acceptable. What low standards you have.
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