The politics of anti-vax'ers

[MrPickins]

smarts must not be a genetic thing i guess

Too bad there isn't a vaccine for "dumb".

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I believe in freedom. If someone wants the shot, good for them. If they don't, good for them.

I believe in freedom. If someone wants to pay taxes, good for them. If they don't, good for them.

It's not for me to say what they do with their body. Sound familiar?

If some random person getting an abortion ever causes you to get measles, then you'd certainly have a point. Otherwise, it's just a false equivalence.

 

[master_shake_]

Too bad there isn't a vaccine for "dumb".

:awe:

judging by his stance on vaccines, he wouldn't get it anyway.

 

[werepossum]

Unfortunately, I was forced to have vaccines by my mother at a young age. So I'm no threat to you. Maybe if you increase your font size to 8, you will be able to convince me that my beliefs are wrong.

There are bigger fish to fry.

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_32135.php

But I'm guess you are all for amnesty.

That article's kind of weird. I know some diseases such as tuberculosis are making a comeback due to illegal aliens, but hantavirus? Is Liberty News hypothesizing that mice get hantavirus from illegal aliens, or that illegal aliens are infested with mice?

I believe in freedom. If someone wants to pay taxes, good for them. If they don't, good for them.

If some random person getting an abortion ever causes you to get measles, then you'd certainly have a point. Otherwise, it's just a false equivalence.

I can't come to work today because I was minding my own business in the Piggly Wiggly when a smelly hippy passed by and I caught the abortion from her. But as soon as that clears up, I'll be back in.

 

[brycejones]

Unfortunately, I was forced to have vaccines by my mother at a young age. So I'm no threat to you. Maybe if you increase your font size to 8, you will be able to convince me that my beliefs are wrong.

There are bigger fish to fry.

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_32135.php

But I'm guess you are all for amnesty.

Please ask your mother for an apology for repeatedly dropping you on your head as a baby.

You have managed to find a website nuttier than infowars or that lewrockwell crap that A420 used to always post. Congrats.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Can it get crazier than this?

"The author/publisher writes: “Melanie's Marvelous Measles was written to educate children on the benefits of having measles and how you can heal from them naturally and successfully. Often today, we are being bombarded with messages from vested interests to fear all diseases in order for someone to sell some potion or vaccine, when, in fact, history shows that in industrialized countries, these diseases are quite benign and, according to natural health sources, beneficial to the body. Having raised three children vaccine-free and childhood disease-free, I have experienced many times when my children's vaccinated peers succumb to the childhood diseases they were vaccinated against. Surprisingly, there were times when my unvaccinated children were blamed for their peers' sickness. Something which is just not possible when they didn't have the diseases at all. Stephanie Messenger lives in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, and devotes her life to educating people about vaccine dangers and supporting families in their natural health choices. She has the support of many natural therapists and natural-minded doctors.”

 

[werepossum]

Can it get crazier than this?

"The author/publisher writes: “Melanie's Marvelous Measles was written to educate children on the benefits of having measles and how you can heal from them naturally and successfully. Often today, we are being bombarded with messages from vested interests to fear all diseases in order for someone to sell some potion or vaccine, when, in fact, history shows that in industrialized countries, these diseases are quite benign and, according to natural health sources, beneficial to the body. Having raised three children vaccine-free and childhood disease-free, I have experienced many times when my children's vaccinated peers succumb to the childhood diseases they were vaccinated against. Surprisingly, there were times when my unvaccinated children were blamed for their peers' sickness. Something which is just not possible when they didn't have the diseases at all. Stephanie Messenger lives in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, and devotes her life to educating people about vaccine dangers and supporting families in their natural health choices. She has the support of many natural therapists and natural-minded doctors.”

Bizarre. Are there benefits from having measles that aren't available from the measles vaccine at much less risk? Granted that measles is hardly a dangerous disease, but a 0.2% death rate is still far above even the worst first generation vaccine for anything.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Bizarre. Are there benefits from having measles that aren't available from the measles vaccine at much less risk? Granted that measles is hardly a dangerous disease, but a 0.2% death rate is still far above even the worst first generation vaccine for anything.

Just regarding measles (and not her other fantastical ideas about disease)

(note:this is world wide)

Key facts

• Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
• In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
• Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
• In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
• During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

And this:

"Measles is the greatest vaccine-preventable killer of children in the world today and the eighth leading cause of death among persons of all ages worldwide"

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long

 

[Vic]

Bizarre. Are there benefits from having measles that aren't available from the measles vaccine at much less risk? Granted that measles is hardly a dangerous disease, but a 0.2% death rate is still far above even the worst first generation vaccine for anything.

Nope. A bout of the measles does not provide immunity from getting it again.

To put the danger of the measles in perspective, consider that 95% of polio infections have no symptoms at all. Only 1 in 200 result in paralysis and only 5% of those are fatal. That's a 0.025% mortality rate.
But you wouldn't say that polio is hardly a dangerous disease, would you?

 

[cubby1223]

when you not getting vaccinated kills me, fuck you and your WRONG beliefs.

as far as i'm concerned if you don't get your vaccinations the cdc should come to your house tent it up and quarantine you as a bio-hazard.

So you're saying that anything someone does that has the potential to kill you, is wrong and you hate them for it.

Hope you don't have any friends who like to drive!

 

[brycejones]

So you're saying that anything someone does that has the potential to kill you, is wrong and you hate them for it.

Hope you don't have any friends who like to drive!

Were you kicked in the head by a mule?

 

[Vic]

So you're saying that anything someone does that has the potential to kill you, is wrong and you hate them for it.

Hope you don't have any friends who like to drive!

What part about we were on the verge of eradicating these diseases forever do you not understand?

 

[OverVolt]

Thats BS. If I choose not to vac my son from say the measles, how is that affecting anyone? According to you vaccers, you are vaccinated so what will my non vaccinated son do to your vaccinated son? If your son gets it then obviously the vaccines dont work.

shit just got real.

 

[OverVolt]

Just regarding measles (and not her other fantastical ideas about disease)

(note:this is world wide)

Key facts

• Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
• In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
• Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
• In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
• During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

And this:

"Measles is the greatest vaccine-preventable killer of children in the world today and the eighth leading cause of death among persons of all ages worldwide"

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/189/Supplement_1/S1.long

Nobody is against the freaking MMR vaccine. I'd pass on....influenza and delay PCV.

I would get Hib late but within schedule, like 15 months.

I would get MMR and Varicella as early as possible, oddly enough. Probably around 12 months.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

Where they all overlap, I wouldn't do that all in one visit.

 

[Brainonska511]

Nobody is against the freaking MMR vaccine. I'd pass on....influenza.

....

Have you seen the news lately?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nobody is against the freaking MMR vaccine. I'd pass on....influenza.

Apparently you've been living on a mountaintop for the past few months?

 

[OverVolt]

Apparently you've been living on a mountaintop for the past few months?

There's a difference between thinking vaccines are a panacea of disease resistance vs the potential for autoimmune disorders, and the types of people who think MMR single dose has thimerosal (it doesn't, see table 1).

Cause I do think over-vaccinating contributes to autoimmune disorders.

MMR has been wrongly made the scapegoat, but I don't disagree with the premise oddly enough. Too many damn vaccines. They were ready to stick me with Tdap ahead of schedule just because I didn't know off the top of my head when I had it last. No thanks. Turns out I'm not due for another 3 years once I grabbed my immunization record.

 

[Brainonska511]

Cause I do think over-vaccinating contributes to autoimmune disorders.

And what evidence is there to support this fantastic hypothesis?

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[Victorian Gray]

There's a difference between thinking vaccines are a panacea of disease resistance vs the potential for autoimmune disorders, and the types of people who think MMR single dose has thimerosal (it doesn't, see table 1).

Cause I do think over-vaccinating contributes to autoimmune disorders.

MMR has been wrongly made the scapegoat, but I don't disagree with the premise oddly enough. Too many damn vaccines. They were ready to stick me with Tdap ahead of schedule just because I didn't know off the top of my head when I had it last. No thanks. Turns out I'm not due for another 3 years once I grabbed my immunization record.

Truthiness for sure.

 

[OverVolt]

Nope nope nope nope nope'd the hell out of here. Enjoy your autoimmune disorders!

You guys are about as group-thinky as the salem witch trials judges.

I've had all my vaccinations and would give my kid MMR, Hep B, Hib, Varicella, PV, etc etc. Just not influenza for 6 straight years. You don't think something is wrong with the recommended vaccination schedule? They just keep increasing the number of vaccines. The 1980's vaccine schedule was nice. Worked for me!

 

[cubby1223]

What part about we were on the verge of eradicating these diseases forever do you not understand?

We can also eradicate deaths by vehicular accident by outlawing driving.

That was what his post was. If you do something that puts me at risk, then I hate you. There are shit-ton of things people do every day that put us all at risk, only difference is the media has latched onto vaccinations as their story of the week. With vaccinations / anti-vaccinations, I have two choices, be angry, or not be angry. I choose to not be angry. I see you choose anger. Hope that works out for you!

Remember when we eradicated ebola last year?

 

[cubby1223]

Were you kicked in the head by a mule?

No.

But I was kicked in the head by a donkey whom I'm fairly confident had the measles. Or is that not close enough to count?

 

[mikeymikec]

Thats BS. If I choose not to vac my son from say the measles, how is that affecting anyone? According to you vaccers, you are vaccinated so what will my non vaccinated son do to your vaccinated son? If your son gets it then obviously the vaccines dont work.

Christ, it's like the homo marriage threads: The nay-sayers just keep pumping out the same old responses despite the fact that they've been countered tonnes of times before.

1) Nothing is perfect. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. However, they're pretty damn effective. How many people have you encountered who contracted small pox? How about tuberculosis? Did you think they just "went out of fashion"?

2) Some people cannot be vaccinated because they have weak/compromised immune systems. This isn't normally much of a problem because of "herd immunity" - the theory that if the vast majority of people are immunised, the likelihood of a disease spreading to reach those who cannot be immunised drops like a stone. However, if lots of people who think they know best start saying "you know what, I don't need this despite the fact that I don't understand even the basics of the principles behind it", then herd immunity does not effectively protect those who cannot choose.

 

[nickqt]

Some people cannot be vaccinated because they have weak/compromised immune systems. This isn't normally much of a problem because of "herd immunity" (the theory that if the vast majority of people are immunised, the likelihood of a disease spreading to reach those who cannot be immunised drops like a stone. However, if lots of people who think they know best start saying "you know what, I don't need this despite the fact that I don't understand even the basics of the principles behind it", then herd immunity does not effectively protect those who cannot choose.

Yeah, like infants.

How is it hurting an infant if I choose to let my kid get measles, and then he gives it to some infant who isn't old enough to get a vaccine shot?

How dare you force my kid to never get the measles just so that babies don't have to get the measles?!?

Plus, like, getting measles builds character and demonstrates that you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps!