The plane takes off, 0.999... = 1, but what about...

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly
I love how people think they are so smart (that wiki article is pathetic) because they have a few others that support their beliefs. I mean if I got a bunch of people on some random internet forum to tell you that blue = red, and created a wiki entry about it, does that suddently make it true? I can prove it! :roll:


There are several flaws with the bogus .9999... = 1 claim. One is that it can never be worked the other way. Ie, you will never get 2-1 = .9999... Say you have two apples and one is taken away. You have 1 apple left. You won't have some apple that is smaller by some infinitesimal minute amount.

Even the 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 example is bogus.
.33333.. + .33333.. + .33333.. will equal .9999999... the numbers don't round themselves up to 1, we do that.
3/3 will equal 1. You will not divide a number by itself and get anything but that number (save for 0). 100/100 = 1. 5/5 = 1. 89798798798708978907894867451387190970 / 89798798798708978907894867451387190970 = 1.

Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10.

And addition. 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + .99999... will be some number smaller than 2. If you think 1 + .9999... equals 2, that's because YOU are rounding it up.

And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small.

Even the limit example on wiki is weak. The problem effectively rounds .999... to 1.

Just because .999... is interchangeable with 1 in some problems does not make them equal. Hell, instant oatmeal + water + microwave = cooked oatmeal. Instant oatmeal + milk + microwave = cooked oatmeal. Does that make water = milk? Two different things that can cause the same result in some situations does not make them equal to each other in all aspects.

Flame away math geeks.

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:


I think it's funny that people try to use all of these forumlas and theorems to try to prove it, but the most basic math disproves it.
If you have zero, a decimal, and an infinite number of nines behind it and add 1 to that number, you will get 1, a decimal, and an infinte number of nines behind it. You won't get 2.



I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

 

[BrokenVisage]

I don't know about this one, but you're right, the plane does take off.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

If that one link isn't enough, refer to the 5 others cited at the bottom of the article.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'll believe that the plane takes off when they show it on Mythbusters. Until then, I'm calling shens on that. My hunch is that either the landing gear or the treadmill would fall apart from the stress before it got airborne. We don't live in "ideal Physics world".

"Duh?"

As I mentioned in my post, keeping the plane from taking off requires the VERY special case of indestructible wheels and a treadmill capable of extraordinarily high speed and acceleration. Obviously in any real-world situation, the plane will take off.

Now, if the mass of the wheels was a significant fraction of the plane's total mass, and the plane has fairly weak engines, then maybe it would be possible in real life. But that's not the case.

Originally posted by: So
Plus, the stupid question said the treadmill always traveled as fast as the wheels in the opposite direction, but the wheels will start moving when the plane does, so as soon as a delta v (acceleration) is introduced to the system, you have an illogical paradox where you tear a hole in spacetime and we all die.

It's only a paradox if there is no interaction between the plane and the treadmill...that is, if Vplane cannot be reduced by increasing Vtreadmill. If force can be exchanged via angular momentum, it is possible to counteract or exceed the force of the engines and bring the plane to a halt, but the treadmill would have to be continuously accelerating anytime the engines are on.

Once again, in any real-world situation, you end up exceeding the performance of the treadmill very quickly. But that control system WILL work in the very special case that I mentioned. I just find it amusing to contemplate that bizarre pathway for force transfer.

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Mass isn't lost to energy. The product of a reaction has the same mass as the reactants.

...To the precision that we're able to measure. But mass is indeed lost.

Originally posted by: supafly
There are several flaws with the bogus .9999... = 1 claim. One is that it can never be worked the other way. Ie, you will never get 2-1 = .9999... Say you have two apples and one is taken away. You have 1 apple left. You won't have some apple that is smaller by some infinitesimal minute amount.

Your examples rely on the basic assumption that .999... != 1, which is the entire thing under dispute. You can't use your own assumption to prove itself.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Please stop showing your ignorance...

yes .999... times 10 is 9.999... and 9.999... = 10.

There are PLENTY of resources on the web to show you why you are just plain wrong.

I would guess that you have no real background in calculus or analysis, so you probably won't understand them anyway...

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Please stop showing your ignorance...

yes .999... times 10 is 9.999... and 9.999... = 10.

There are PLENTY of resources on the web to show you why you are just plain wrong.

I would guess that you have no real background in calculus or analysis, so you probably won't understand them anyway...

FFS two different numbers do not equal each other. 9.999.. never ends. It will never be equal to 10.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

How is stating 1.999 != 2 "the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence"? What is your proof, that the numbers "look different"?

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: supafly
There are several flaws with the bogus .9999... = 1 claim. One is that it can never be worked the other way. Ie, you will never get 2-1 = .9999... Say you have two apples and one is taken away. You have 1 apple left. You won't have some apple that is smaller by some infinitesimal minute amount.

Your examples rely on the basic assumption that .999... != 1, which is the entire thing under dispute. You can't use your own assumption to prove itself.

Examples that "prove" .999.. = 1 rely on the assumption that they are equal.. but that makes it right, right?

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

How is stating 1.999 != 2 "the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence"? What is your proof, that the numbers "look different"?

They are different. 1.999... will always trail 2.

 

[JohnCU]

my poor thread got raped and gangbanged

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: supafly
There are several flaws with the bogus .9999... = 1 claim. One is that it can never be worked the other way. Ie, you will never get 2-1 = .9999... Say you have two apples and one is taken away. You have 1 apple left. You won't have some apple that is smaller by some infinitesimal minute amount.

Your examples rely on the basic assumption that .999... != 1, which is the entire thing under dispute. You can't use your own assumption to prove itself.

Examples that "prove" .999.. = 1 rely on the assumption that they are equal.. but that makes it right, right?

No, they don't.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

How is stating 1.999 != 2 "the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence"? What is your proof, that the numbers "look different"?

They are different. 1.999... will always trail 2.

Now there is some hard evidence!

Instead of just saying whatever you feel like saying, why not actually disprove some of the proofs you've seen?

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
my poor thread got raped and gangbanged

Sorry :frown:

Did the mods delete the old .999... = 1 thread?

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

So all the math professors are wrong, but you are right?

If two numbers are different, then there must be another number between them, correct? If so, then tell me, what number comes between 0.99999...... and 1?

 

[thesurge]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: supafly
There are several flaws with the bogus .9999... = 1 claim. One is that it can never be worked the other way. Ie, you will never get 2-1 = .9999... Say you have two apples and one is taken away. You have 1 apple left. You won't have some apple that is smaller by some infinitesimal minute amount.

Your examples rely on the basic assumption that .999... != 1, which is the entire thing under dispute. You can't use your own assumption to prove itself.

Examples that "prove" .999.. = 1 rely on the assumption that they are equal.. but that makes it right, right?

You are right. The simple equation proof is a very informal and is created to help people with small grasp on math to understand how .999...=1.

HOWEVER, there are many other formal proofs that show .999...=1 from a convergent geometric series (which is the next easiest to understand, as I posted earlier but everyone conveniently ignored ) to a cauchy sequence to something called a "Dedekind cut" (just heard about that recently).

 

[Legendary]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

Convergence of sequences is NOT a "roundabout" way or proving anything, nor does it use "rounding." I will admit the other two proofs on that page are informal, but the sequences one is not.

Also your idea of reversal is baseless and generally unaccepted in mathematics, and your proof of the opposite automatically assumes what you are trying to prove, and is circular. For example:

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. " <-- do you have any proof of that? Is there any REAL mathematics going on here? Or just baseless conjecture?

This is only true if you assume .999... != 1 before you start the proof, which is definitely a logical fallacy when it is what you're trying to prove.

The same applies for:

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

AND

"Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. "

You can't use your hypothesis in your proof of said hypothesis. Your mathematical skills fail, and I suggest you find some place else to spread your misinformation.

Edit: Didn't close bold tag.

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

How is stating 1.999 != 2 "the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence"? What is your proof, that the numbers "look different"?

They are different. 1.999... will always trail 2.

Now there is some hard evidence!

Instead of just saying whatever you feel like saying, why not actually disprove some of the proofs you've seen?

2 > 1.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999...

How is that hard to understand?

Like I said, the numbers can be interchangable in SOME situations, but not all. It does not make them equal. I can use a hammer and a rock to pound a nail into a piece of wood, but a hammer and a rock are not teh same.
Just because .999.. = 1 in a few problems doesn't mean they are always equal.

1 + .999... will always equal 1.999... To say 1.999.. = 2 is ROUNDING.

 

[thesurge]

Originally posted by: thesurge

Originally posted by: GoodRevrnd

Originally posted by: Kelnoen
1 / 3 = a third
1 / 3 = 0.333...
a third times 3 = 1
0.333... times 3 = 0.999...
therefore
0.999... = 1

That's bunk. 0.33333... is an approximation for 1/3. Therefore .999 doesn't = 1. At least by your argument.

Infinite Geometric Series ftw.

.9999....=sigma(9/(10^k),k,1,oo)=\frac{(9/10)}{1-1/10}=1

I'm quoting this for the people who missed it (in this huge quote-fest of a thread). This easily proves that .999...=1... anyone with high-school algebra background can understand.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Legendary

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

Convergence of sequences is NOT a "roundabout" way or proving anything, nor does it use "rounding." I will admit the other two proofs on that page are informal, but the sequences one is not.

Also your idea of reversal is baseless and generally unaccepted in mathematics, and your proof of the opposite automatically assumes what you are trying to prove, and is circular. For example:

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. " <-- do you have any proof of that? Is there any REAL mathematics going on here? Or just baseless conjecture?

This is only true if you assume .999... != 1 before you start the proof, which is definitely a logical fallacy when it is what you're trying to prove.

The same applies for:

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

AND

"Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. "

You can't use your hypothesis in your proof of said hypothesis. Your mathematical skills fail, and I suggest you find some place else to spread your misinformation.

Edit: Didn't close bold tag.

Don't bother telling him that his "mathematical skills fail"... after all this problem is so easy to prove that you don't need to use any "hard" math :laugh:

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

So all the math professors are wrong, but you are right?

If two numbers are different, then there must be another number between them, correct? If so, then tell me, what number comes between 0.99999...... and 1?

People also believed the world was flat and they had maps to prove it.

0.000...1 is the difference.

1 comes after 0.999... which makes 1>0.999...

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: supafly
<snip>

So basically you are using your idea of what you think math should be, and shunning the use of mathematical theorems :thumbsdown:

So basically you are trying to insult me by making things up (I'm not "shunning the use of mathematical theorems") and not using any support :thumbsdown:

:roll:

I at least expected some more "proof" but I guess there is none, because .999... doesn't equal 1.

Well you made no effort to use rigorous mathematical tools to show why .999... != 1, you just say things like

"Same goes for multiplication. .99999.. times 10 will always be some value less than 10. Yes, it will be so close that it is practically indistinguishable, but it is not 10. "

and

"And subtraction. 1 - 1 = 0. 1 - .99999.... will be some number greater than 0. Yes, there REALLY will be a 1 trailing an infinite amount of zeros. Such a number is so small that it is hard to conceptualize, but that doesn't mean we can just say it is 0 because it's so small. "

So sorry if I believe you are shunning the use of theory when you make baseless claims.

Baseless? What the hell are you smoking? Are you so cought up in believing that they are equal that you can't see the simplicity in how they aren't equal?

Tell me how on earth you can multiply .999... by 10 and NOT get 9.999... That's basic math. You're a fool if you think you need to use "rigorous mathematical tools" to answer something so basic.

Also, tell me how you can divide 10 by 10 and NOT get 1.

Perhaps proofs based on some references from math professors and textbooks might be more convincing:

link

That's the same stuff that's on wiki, and it's still a roundabout way of "proving" it. These ideas are one dimensional, use rounding, and cannot be reversed.

Like I said, just because they can be interchanged in some problems does not make them 100% equal. 1 + .999... will equal 1.999... not 2. That's the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence.

How is stating 1.999 != 2 "the most simple, basic math that directly contradicts all other evidence"? What is your proof, that the numbers "look different"?

They are different. 1.999... will always trail 2.

Now there is some hard evidence!

Instead of just saying whatever you feel like saying, why not actually disprove some of the proofs you've seen?

2 > 1.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999...

How is that hard to understand?

Like I said, the numbers can be interchangable in SOME situations, but not all. It does not make them equal. I can use a hammer and a rock to pound a nail into a piece of wood, but a hammer and a rock are not teh same.
Just because .999.. = 1 in a few problems doesn't mean they are always equal.

1 + .999... will always equal 1.999... To say 1.999.. = 2 is ROUNDING.

It's hard to understand because it's not true.

Please tell us WHY 2 > 1.999999.... rather than just stating it.

If you only needed to state things to make them true, then math and science sure would be easy!