The Pickens Plan

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
21% of our energy from wind: Thumbs up
Natural gas as our transportation fuel: Thumbs down

Got a better idea? We already produce a ton of natural gas right here in the US and it burns MUCH cleaner than gas. Its the perfect stop gap measure until a real alternative can be brought online. Cheaper, cleaner and domestically made but your still not happy?

Biofuels (not produced from food crops) or electric. The technology is basically there, about half a dozen commercial-scale cellulosic ethanol plants are currently being built in the US, and the technology will only get cheaper. If the EEStor supercapacitor lives up to expectations, it will revolutionize the EV market. Research is being done on producing biodiesel from algae, which have per acre yields orders of magnitude greater than traditional crops. I just think natural gas is a step backward.

Is this traditional capacitor tech, but with higher energy density? If so, have they resolved the exploding capacitors issue?

This is only an issue with electrolytic caps. The EEStor caps do not use an electrolyte. There is no risk of explosion or combustion, the materials used for the EESU are pretty benign (barium titanate, nickel, etc.). The only risk I could think of is from short-circuiting the cap when charged. It wouldn't explode like some chemical batteries, but it would create a lot of heat and could probably cause some pretty serious burns.

EDIT: And of course electrocution, considering the very high potential the EESU operates at (3500VDC).

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Although I like the sounds of the plan and the prospect of the net results, anyone that thinks Pickens is doing this for anything but selfish reasons is insane.

He makes himself seem like he his being altruistic but all he is doing is trying to bend the curve down the path to turn his millions invested in wind plants into billions earned in energy sold.

He is essentially selling out all of his oil buddies that he rode to billions and is trying to make wind buddies that his family will exploit for decades to come.

That said, I still have to welcome the idea because someone is going to make money from it and if his double crossing of and sinking the ship of those in the oil industry works, we will all be better off because of it. Mr. Pickens will just end up being the "best" off.

So now we not only need an answer to this very serious problem, we need that suggestion to come from someone who has no one to gain from it?

Must be great to be an idealist.

I suppose you hate Al Gore because he has made so many millions with his speeches right?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Although I like the sounds of the plan and the prospect of the net results, anyone that thinks Pickens is doing this for anything but selfish reasons is insane.

He makes himself seem like he his being altruistic but all he is doing is trying to bend the curve down the path to turn his millions invested in wind plants into billions earned in energy sold.

He is essentially selling out all of his oil buddies that he rode to billions and is trying to make wind buddies that his family will exploit for decades to come.

That said, I still have to welcome the idea because someone is going to make money from it and if his double crossing of and sinking the ship of those in the oil industry works, we will all be better off because of it. Mr. Pickens will just end up being the "best" off.

So now we not only need an answer to this very serious problem, we need that suggestion to come from someone who has no one to gain from it?

Must be great to be an idealist.

I suppose you hate Al Gore because he has made so many millions with his speeches right?

That's totally different. Gore is a Democrat.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
We ditched steam locomotives overnight when diesel engines came online.

It's pretty obvious we need to start making steam engines again to augment the horse and buggy fleet

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
We ditched steam locomotives overnight when diesel engines came online.

It's pretty obvious we need to start making steam engines again to augment the horse and buggy fleet

Not only that but we've had electric engines for over 100 years and they still have yet to come online. Someone doesn't want us to have them. Any idea who that could be? Why don't we have a plug-in Prius? I know this is a conspiracy theory but IMO it's one of the few that have merit.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
We ditched steam locomotives overnight when diesel engines came online.

It's pretty obvious we need to start making steam engines again to augment the horse and buggy fleet

Not only that but we've had electric engines for over 100 years and they still have yet to come online. Someone doesn't want us to have them. Any idea who that could be?[/b\ Why don't we have a plug-in Prius? I know this is a conspiracy theory but IMO it's one of the few that have merit.

Science. Battery technology has been terrible until recently.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
We ditched steam locomotives overnight when diesel engines came online.

It's pretty obvious we need to start making steam engines again to augment the horse and buggy fleet

Not only that but we've had electric engines for over 100 years and they still have yet to come online. Someone doesn't want us to have them. Any idea who that could be? Why don't we have a plug-in Prius? I know this is a conspiracy theory but IMO it's one of the few that have merit.

Science. Battery technology has been terrible until recently.

We've had transmission wires since forever. Look at streetcars. GM felt so threatened by them back in the day that they bought all of them. It's one of the two modern day conspiracy theories to ever be proven.

 

[MadRat]

If you people would simply demand your electricity come from public utilities that would help. The public utility is not always cheap, but it is "public". Ever since deregulation we've seen the new improved versions jack up the overall costs in the name of company good. They were supposed to drive down costs, not increase them. Look at my state (Nebraska) and how they keep down costs. Very little nuclear power, very few windmills on the grid, very little power from the dams. Yet it still is very low on the scale of cost electricity-wise.

 

[MadRat]

I forgot to mention that the public utilities in my state are required by law to refund the state any excess charges at the end of the fiscal year, too. We elect the boards that run the electrical companies here, so its not like the big guys get to line their pockets with money. There are no fat cats sucking off the excesses.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Drill it all

I wonder if this will mute some of the support he was getting from the left...

 

[chrisho]

Unfortunately Wind power is more bluster than power generation. The majority are generating less than twenty percent of their peak output on a yearly average. This little number gets buried because its a not so nice truth about the technology. What it is is big money for GE and other producers of generators. So to supplement 20% of our energy usage with wind we would need about five times what this guy is proposing.

Nuclear is the better route, Germany is even going to go that direction and up until recently they had been moving away but the success of France is hard to ignore. Russia is right up there too.

If we don't go nuclear it would be a crime against our children. Making them live a substandard living all because of a minority of ignorant people shouting down a majority of people looking for a real solution

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chrisho
Unfortunately Wind power is more bluster than power generation. The majority are generating less than twenty percent of their peak output on a yearly average. This little number gets buried because its a not so nice truth about the technology. What it is is big money for GE and other producers of generators. So to supplement 20% of our energy usage with wind we would need about five times what this guy is proposing.

Nuclear is the better route, Germany is even going to go that direction and up until recently they had been moving away but the success of France is hard to ignore. Russia is right up there too.

If we don't go nuclear it would be a crime against our children. Making them live a substandard living all because of a minority of ignorant people shouting down a majority of people looking for a real solution

Nationally I believe the output is approx 29%. Here in Iowa it's been about 37%.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Drill it all

I wonder if this will mute some of the support he was getting from the left...

He is no longer the liberals Rock Star.

 

[Erock]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
21% of our energy from wind: Thumbs up
Natural gas as our transportation fuel: Thumbs down

Exactly. We don't need to drive around on our own little suicide bombs.

Umm... Moron!!! We already do drive around with explosives. (Gasoline that is.) So I don't see how using natural gas would be any different. We developed safe handling for gasoline and we can and already have developed safe ways for handling natural gas.