This is kind of off topic but it is related to networking and running cable safely. I know that there are many people who have home networks and wonder about running cable outside. This has not popped up for awhile and I think it is a good reminder for those here as well as those new to networking. Well on to the reason of this post. I was watching The Screen Savers today (I was just flipping through the channels) and I happened to see a portion where a caller asked about running Cat 5 outside. Patrick and Marty did not hesitate to reccomend running the cable outside either in a conduit, on top of the ground, or up in the air. As many of you know this is very dangerous to both your equipment and yourselves. ScottMac has had many informative posts about this and I am not going to retype everything here. It can easily be searched for in the archives. /End of Public Service Announcment.
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The people on Tech TV are dangerous, they reccomended running Cat5 outside.
- Thread starter nightowl
- Start date
Thanks Nightowl (and ScottMac). To save some searching, here is one thread on this and here is another. If there are better links, maybe somebody could post them.
famous ScottMac quote...
My favorite. True...True.🙂Don't mess with Darwin, he always wins.....
My friend setup DSL sharing between him and his neighbor. They accomplished it pretty easily with one machine running Linux to share the connection, web, ftp and printers, but the real key was they used cact5 to connect the two houses.
How did they do it? They dug a trench between the houses and put some plastic pipes into the groung to put the cat5 between the two. They got around 20 feet of pipe, dug up about 3 feet of ground and layed it all out. So far, through numerous raining seasons (about 3 years they have shared their DSL connection), it has been ok.
vash
How did they do it? They dug a trench between the houses and put some plastic pipes into the groung to put the cat5 between the two. They got around 20 feet of pipe, dug up about 3 feet of ground and layed it all out. So far, through numerous raining seasons (about 3 years they have shared their DSL connection), it has been ok.
vash
Vash,
please do post back what happens when lighting strikes close to either house or the house gets a direct hit.
The worst part about it is both houses have a difference in potential, and are now sharing a direct, ungrounded connection. This actually increases the chances that one house would get struck.
Oh well. The problem with posts that say "well I've done it and it works fine" is you are encouraging dangerous, reckless, ingnorant and just plain unlawful behavior on a public internet form.
ScottMac makes some very good points, specifically if your buddies house burns down they ain't paying for squat. If you living in an apartment then you now have to pay for the building that burned down, because the fire was directly linked to faulty wiring installed by the renter. renter insurance ain't gonna cover that either.
Sorry for being so rough, but as silly as it sounds those codes are their for your protection.
please do post back what happens when lighting strikes close to either house or the house gets a direct hit.
The worst part about it is both houses have a difference in potential, and are now sharing a direct, ungrounded connection. This actually increases the chances that one house would get struck.
Oh well. The problem with posts that say "well I've done it and it works fine" is you are encouraging dangerous, reckless, ingnorant and just plain unlawful behavior on a public internet form.
ScottMac makes some very good points, specifically if your buddies house burns down they ain't paying for squat. If you living in an apartment then you now have to pay for the building that burned down, because the fire was directly linked to faulty wiring installed by the renter. renter insurance ain't gonna cover that either.
Sorry for being so rough, but as silly as it sounds those codes are their for your protection.
No lighting strikes in over three years on the setup and in Socal, its probably not going to happen. Years and years have shown no damage from lighting since we aren't in a lightning prone area.please do post back what happens when lighting strikes close to either house or the house gets a direct hit.
Yes, that is totally true, but its their houses and not mine. I never recommended them to share, they did it between themselves. Also, the cat5 cable is insultated via a rubber house, the plastic PVC pipe between the houses and about 3 feet of dirt.The worst part about it is both houses have a difference in potential, and are now sharing a direct, ungrounded connection. This actually increases the chances that one house would get struck.
They are living in houses and they know the dangers of what they did. Their only reason to share was to help the burdon of the DSL price for what they wanted. I didn't encourage people to start digging network connection between themselves and their neighbors. As far as liability is concerned, its up to them on how to divy up the cost of a fire if it happens.Oh well. The problem with posts that say "well I've done it and it works fine" is you are encouraging dangerous, reckless, ingnorant and just plain unlawful behavior on a public internet form.
ScottMac makes some very good points, specifically if your buddies house burns down they ain't paying for squat. If you living in an apartment then you now have to pay for the building that burned down, because the fire was directly linked to faulty wiring installed by the renter. renter insurance ain't gonna cover that either.
No worries. You thought I encouraged what they did. You didn't really *read* what I said. All I said is that they did their connection via some pipes between the houses, I never told them to do it or encourages others to do it.Sorry for being so rough, but as silly as it sounds those codes are their for your protection.
vash
Originally posted by: vash
No lighting strikes in over three years on the setup and in Socal, its probably not going to happen. Years and years have shown no damage from lighting since we aren't in a lightning prone area.
Good idea...it hasn't happened in a while, so it never will. I guess you don't understand lightning much.
Here's how I view it. It's probably not a great idea, but I'm willing to take the risk, and so far it has gone ok. I'm running CAT5 UTP outside under a little siding overhang on my house from one side to the other. I fail to see how this is very dangerous. Lightning is not going to be drawn to this cable (I have a TV antenna) and the only threat is it being chewed by animals or something, in which case I just replace it. Doesn't sound very dangerous to me.
But I wouldn't recommend others do this unless they actually think about it, because it can cause problems.
But I wouldn't recommend others do this unless they actually think about it, because it can cause problems.
Yeah, ok, I don't subscribe to the newsletter of lightning, nor have I authored a far or got my PHD in lightning. He's just betting on the odds that he won't be hit my lighting based upon his own living in the area for so many years. Sure it does strike, but its not like when we get a thunderstorm we get the lighting strikes for hours at at time. When we get the strikes, its only for 5-10 minutes and there are very few that actually land around us.Good idea...it hasn't happened in a while, so it never will. I guess you don't understand lightning much.
vash
Originally posted by: vash
Yeah, ok, I don't subscribe to the newsletter of lightning, nor have I authored a far or got my PHD in lightning. He's just betting on the odds that he won't be hit my lighting based upon his own living in the area for so many years. Sure it does strike, but its not like when we get a thunderstorm we get the lighting strikes for hours at at time. When we get the strikes, its only for 5-10 minutes and there are very few that actually land around us.
vash
Thats fine, do whatever you want...
I do, that's why I didn't run the cable between me and my neighbors. There is no way I'd have cable running between two homes. Maybe if you *READ* what I said, you'd understand my position on the issue.Thats fine, do whatever you want...
vash
Scott. right before I posted this I sent an e-mail to The Screen Savers. I have not reveived a valid respones yet. All I have received is a automated response back. I did not get too detailed in the e-mail but I did mention the products Avaya provides for proper protection of Cat5 cable being run outside.
Yeah, I got the 'BOT response. Basically I expressed my understanding of "The Rules," and suggested they talk to a/some RCDDs or other *REAL* cable-oriented folks and get the official story from a credentialed source.
I basically said the same thing as mentioned in the linked posts, but explained that my understanding was more from experience and association (I used to work for Anixter, though not directly in the cable-end -no pun intended- of the business) than a course of study or profession.
Good catch, it'll be interesting to see what happens next......
FWIW
Scott
I basically said the same thing as mentioned in the linked posts, but explained that my understanding was more from experience and association (I used to work for Anixter, though not directly in the cable-end -no pun intended- of the business) than a course of study or profession.
Good catch, it'll be interesting to see what happens next......
FWIW
Scott
We can argue all day on the reasons and opinions people hook up cat5 between houses, but the real issue here is that TechTv a well established media organization that alot of people get there information from needs to do all of their homework before they state something live on national TV.
I believe you have hit the nail on the head.
There will always be folks that will do something against recommendation because "It works" or "I don't care, this is how I want to do it," but it's important that the correct information be given out so that the decision can be made based on the facts.
FWIW
Scott
There will always be folks that will do something against recommendation because "It works" or "I don't care, this is how I want to do it," but it's important that the correct information be given out so that the decision can be made based on the facts.
FWIW
Scott
Fiberoptic, wireless, or twisted pair or coax with lightning protection are available.But you could do other ways of haveing a networkign connection between 2 homes or locations .
Plenum Grade cabling (UTP or otherwise) is constructed of materials such that they: 1.) have much higher flashover points (the ambient temperature at which the material ignites) 2.) have REDUCED output of toxic fumes.
The PLENUM referred to is an Air Plenum Space. An example is a drop ceiling where the space beteen the drop ceiling and the real ceiling is used as an active air return for the HVAC system. The idea is that a fire in one area of a public/commercial building does not introduce fumes into the return airstream....where they'll be (re)distributed into other areas of the building/suructure.
In the past, the jacketing and wire insulation was frequently some flavor of Teflon (PTFE). Since Teflon/PTFE is a flourocarbon-based (like freon) material, or flourocarbons are used to create it (I don't know which anymore...the shotglass dun overflowed) other materials are now being used for Plenum-rated materials.
The bottom line is: Plenum-rated sheath / insulation takes a higher temp to burn, and it smells better when it does. Other than that, it still rots in UV, doesn't have any higher scuff resistance, stretches pretty much the same, and other than being a bigger pain in the patoot to terminate, is no different than standard UTP. It offers no additional benefit for use outdoors or in extreme environmental conditions.
FWIW
Scott
The PLENUM referred to is an Air Plenum Space. An example is a drop ceiling where the space beteen the drop ceiling and the real ceiling is used as an active air return for the HVAC system. The idea is that a fire in one area of a public/commercial building does not introduce fumes into the return airstream....where they'll be (re)distributed into other areas of the building/suructure.
In the past, the jacketing and wire insulation was frequently some flavor of Teflon (PTFE). Since Teflon/PTFE is a flourocarbon-based (like freon) material, or flourocarbons are used to create it (I don't know which anymore...the shotglass dun overflowed) other materials are now being used for Plenum-rated materials.
The bottom line is: Plenum-rated sheath / insulation takes a higher temp to burn, and it smells better when it does. Other than that, it still rots in UV, doesn't have any higher scuff resistance, stretches pretty much the same, and other than being a bigger pain in the patoot to terminate, is no different than standard UTP. It offers no additional benefit for use outdoors or in extreme environmental conditions.
FWIW
Scott
I think some people are not understanding the problem with hooking cat5 between buildings, this is more then just a lightning issue. this is a grounding problem. you can easily fry yourself and destroy all of your equipment if you connect two different electrical devices with different grounding points together.
I know it has little to do with it because of the way things are setup, but the t-1 to my house comes in from the telco box on stp and runs up the side of my house into the attic -- stapled to hell the whole way, but still unprotected. Hopefully their little box outside does it's job and keeps things even-steven.
randal
😀
randal
😀
Well, the topic has been covered in this thread, and several other threads on this forum, try a search.
"Stapled?"
"Stapled" is also a bad thing. Anything that changes the form of the twisted pairs in the jacket changes the cable's transmission characteristics, which may (usually) degrade the performance.
Yeah, yeah, I know ... works perfect for you. Glad to hear it.
It's not recommended (except maybe by Tech TV, who have proven themselves to be less-than-reliable in the information department ... )
Good Luck
Scott
"Stapled?"
"Stapled" is also a bad thing. Anything that changes the form of the twisted pairs in the jacket changes the cable's transmission characteristics, which may (usually) degrade the performance.
Yeah, yeah, I know ... works perfect for you. Glad to hear it.
It's not recommended (except maybe by Tech TV, who have proven themselves to be less-than-reliable in the information department ... )
Good Luck
Scott
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