The Patient Gamer: Skyrim

[GodisanAtheist]

So I just recently completed a 90 hour playthrough of the main campaign of vanilla Skyrim (no DLC or mods). Played as a Redguard spell sword, and completed the Companions and College plotlines, as well as the main quest. Left the thieves guild, the brotherhood, and the Civil War quests for a second playthrough somewhere down the line. Picked up a smattering of Daedric artifacts, completed a number of secondary quests, had a bunch of fun.

This is the first Elderscrolls game I have ever completed, although I have attempted both Morrowind and Oblivion before. Its also the first game that IMO manages to get the different parts to gel in a coherent, logical, and entertaining way. The prior ES games felt torn between being an RPG or being a FPS, with rolls and stats happening behind the scenes, but with gameplay like an FPS, and the entire experience really felt schizophrenic. I also really disliked the prior games RPG system, not so much the "use it to level it" element but really everything else from character levels being tied to "tagged" skills to the level scaling etc.

Skyrim really fixed a lot of these problems (although the lack of actual dialogue roll play and railroading on the main quest still suck) and I felt really embraced its true nature as a FPS with RPG elements as opposed to the other way around, and it really worked, although it still suffers from the "broad as an ocean, deep as a puddle" problem of all ES games, the fundamental gameplay is fun enough to keep pulling you forward to discover another little corner of the world.

The world also feels less like a procedurally generated purgatory (although there is plenty of that as well) with more "handcrafted" elements to it to keep your interest going as you explore.

Ultimately I was more impressed than I thought I would be (honestly expected another bored and quit in 5 hours experience) but I was really pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had and I completely understand the praise the game receives.

Anything I should keep in mind for a second playthrough (quality of life mods for the god aweful inventory or anything)? How was your experience with Skyrim?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So I just recently completed a 90 hour playthrough of the main campaign of vanilla Skyrim (no DLC or mods). Played as a Redguard spell sword, and completed the Companions and College plotlines, as well as the main quest. Left the thieves guild, the brotherhood, and the Civil War quests for a second playthrough somewhere down the line. Picked up a smattering of Daedric artifacts, completed a number of secondary quests, had a bunch of fun.

This is the first Elderscrolls game I have ever completed, although I have attempted both Morrowind and Oblivion before. Its also the first game that IMO manages to get the different parts to gel in a coherent, logical, and entertaining way. The prior ES games felt torn between being an RPG or being a FPS, with rolls and stats happening behind the scenes, but with gameplay like an FPS, and the entire experience really felt schizophrenic. I also really disliked the prior games RPG system, not so much the "use it to level it" element but really everything else from character levels being tied to "tagged" skills to the level scaling etc.

Skyrim really fixed a lot of these problems (although the lack of actual dialogue roll play and railroading on the main quest still suck) and I felt really embraced its true nature as a FPS with RPG elements as opposed to the other way around, and it really worked, although it still suffers from the "broad as an ocean, deep as a puddle" problem of all ES games, the fundamental gameplay is fun enough to keep pulling you forward to discover another little corner of the world.

The world also feels less like a procedurally generated purgatory (although there is plenty of that as well) with more "handcrafted" elements to it to keep your interest going as you explore.

Ultimately I was more impressed than I thought I would be (honestly expected another bored and quit in 5 hours experience) but I was really pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had and I completely understand the praise the game receives.

Anything I should keep in mind for a second playthrough (quality of life mods for the god aweful inventory or anything)? How was your experience with Skyrim?

As with all ES games, they should be modded heavily and thoroughly.

Depending on your system, you are likely able to go nuts with graphical mods, specifically texture, model, and lighting (including reshade mods if you're brave). Beyond that, I'd hit up some of the most heavily trafficked gameplay mods, such as ones that expand on combat and/or magic, as well as introducing some new weapons/armor to the game. There's a few very well regarded plot/quest related mods, though I personally tend to avoid those. That alone is enough to get you to 100+ mods, and get the game looking real pretty and shore up some of the weaknesses of the core gameplay. Don't forget to pick up the unofficial game patches. I'd also highly recommend the 'alternate start' mods. Those can be a really good way to re-experience the game from a different direction, if only to keep you from going from Riverwood -> Whiterun -> Throat of the world -> Riften AGAIN. If you're unfamiliar with ES modding, you're in for a few hours of learnin' time before you'll actually get to play anything. For what its worth, it's still better than Oblivion modding ~10 years ago.

I highly encourage doing the other big quest chains, Brotherhood and Thieves guild are a lot of fun. Also do the DLC if you haven't yet.

EDIT: You didn't mention whether or not you're playing the SE... it handles mods much better. In addition, it can handle >60FPS if you have a monitor/system to cope with it. 144FPS modded skyrim is just the bee's knees.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Morrowind was an absolute blast and is still fun to this day but there was way too much RNG behind every action. Mods fixed this though.

Oblivion was a ****show from the start with the level scaling, performance issues, and CTDs inside the Daedric towers. Mods improved the entire game tenfold.

Skyrim felt like Bethesda listened to our complaints, wrote them on a piece of paper, then folded that paper into an airplane and threw it out the window. Then they just made a console game and figured the PC crowd would tailor it to their liking (which we did). Mods made this game playable.

To this day, I still have yet to finish Skyrim, but only because every time I start playing it, it just feels like a prettier, dumbed-down version of Oblivion. If I go back to it, I'll need a solid week to plan out the mods and get everything prepared because there's no way in hell I'm going to touch that game unmodded again.

 

[aigomorla]

As with all ES games, they should be modded heavily and thoroughly.

+1 to this...
Modded Skyrim with all the Graphics Tweaks, and even down to extra companion makes the game completely different.

Oh and also mess with the chickens and watch the villagers get all PMS'd about it and attack you.

 

[Stg-Flame]

and even down to extra companion

No no no. I guess I'm the minority when it comes to AI companions tagging along for the adventures. They end up just getting in the way and then I'm forced to power attack them off the side of a cliff into oblivion (no pun intended).

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

No no no. I guess I'm the minority when it comes to AI companions tagging along for the adventures. They end up just getting in the way and then I'm forced to power attack them off the side of a cliff into oblivion (no pun intended).

I've run around with a companion maybe once. They do indeed get in the way.

Atronochs on the other hand...

 

[clamum]

I've only logged about 21 hours with Skyrim (PC version) and I'm sure I haven't gotten real far through the game. I don't remember where I left off because it's been a looong time since I played. I never felt like I needed mods, though.

However I picked up the Skyrim VR version too and just played a couple hours or so of that and really enjoyed it. I think I want to try out some mods with it this time, even though I had a blast and no big complaints playing it. I'll have to see what's recommended.

 

[Stg-Flame]

I've only logged about 21 hours with Skyrim (PC version) and I'm sure I haven't gotten real far through the game. I don't remember where I left off because it's been a looong time since I played. I never felt like I needed mods, though.

However I picked up the Skyrim VR version too and just played a couple hours or so of that and really enjoyed it. I think I want to try out some mods with it this time, even though I had a blast and no big complaints playing it. I'll have to see what's recommended.

How can you possibly say that you feel like a Bethesda game didn't need mods, especially Skyrim? The UI alone warranted immediate mods and prompted SkyUI and DarnUI to release mods within the first few days.

 

[clamum]

How can you possibly say that you feel like a Bethesda game didn't need mods, especially Skyrim? The UI alone warranted immediate mods and prompted SkyUI and DarnUI to release mods within the first few days.

lol. Guess I'm my own person? I think the inventory UI makes it kinda hard to manage everything, but I never thought about getting mods for it. I like playing games the way the creators intended. It's not like it was a HUGE deal for me anyway, just kind of annoying. That'd be about the only thing I wouldn't mind changing though; the rest is fine to me.

 

[Stg-Flame]

The sad part about "the way the creators intended" is I've spoken to Bethesda devs while Skyrim was being developed in the FCOM threads and one of them actually said that they don't intend to make many changes (QoL improvements from Oblivion) because they know the community will tailor the game to their liking. They basically told the modding community to pick up the slack because they didn't want to listen to the community and take the extra bit of time to improve some small things (such as the horrible UI).

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The sad part about "the way the creators intended" is I've spoken to Bethesda devs while Skyrim was being developed in the FCOM threads and one of them actually said that they don't intend to make many changes (QoL improvements from Oblivion) because they know the community will tailor the game to their liking. They basically told the modding community to pick up the slack because they didn't want to listen to the community and take the extra bit of time to improve some small things (such as the horrible UI).

- Its really weird that a company like Bethesda wouldn't just incorporate the, say, top 10 mods from their previous installment into the core game of the next installment.

Its like free focus group/beta testing.

 

[Stg-Flame]

- Its really weird that a company like Bethesda wouldn't just incorporate the, say, top 10 mods from their previous installment into the core game of the next installment.

Its like free focus group/beta testing.

That's what we were asking. We had a few devs that would communicate with the top modders in the community on a regular basis. I believe a few of them were offered a sort of consulting position (dev_akm and CorePC if I remember right) to beta test the new game and help out with little things, but the discussions were dropped and the threads deleted. Never heard why but it irritated me that even after talking to the modding community and hearing the vast majority ask for some of the top mods to be incorporated, they flat out said "nah, you can do it after we release the game". I'm guessing if they used mods or resources from any mods in Skyrim, it would mean royalties would be paid or lawsuits or something stupid along those lines.

 

[zinfamous]

That's what we were asking. We had a few devs that would communicate with the top modders in the community on a regular basis. I believe a few of them were offered a sort of consulting position (dev_akm and CorePC if I remember right) to beta test the new game and help out with little things, but the discussions were dropped and the threads deleted. Never heard why but it irritated me that even after talking to the modding community and hearing the vast majority ask for some of the top mods to be incorporated, they flat out said "nah, you can do it after we release the game". I'm guessing if they used mods or resources from any mods in Skyrim, it would mean royalties would be paid or lawsuits or something stupid along those lines.

I always wondered if this never happens because of some legal issues--even if a modder uses open-access resources (already provided) and "donate" the code, I wonder if there is some corporate (Bethesda) issue that doesn't let them use any type of outside code without some sort of contract?

...so, maybe they are caught in a position where they end up having to issues dozens of strange contracts to some of the top modders, that costs...whatever, so it ends up being unjustifiably expensive/complicated to implement these fixes and options if they are always coming from the modders. And, for whatever reason, they can't or won't offer actual positions to a small number of the big ones?

 

[Stg-Flame]

It was generally accepted that it was a decision made way up the food chain given how nobody would talk about it and none of the main modders would openly discuss the issue after the threads were closed. Still, the way Bethesda operated during the development of Skyrim left us with pretty low expectations for the game and upon playing it on release, we were met with pretty much what we all expected.

 

[shortylickens]

it took you 90 hours to do two of the five factions?
Did you just stand around staring at the sky 8 hours a day?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

it took you 90 hours to do two of the five factions?
Did you just stand around staring at the sky 8 hours a day?

Sort of

Really it was a couple of things:
- I walked everywhere. I hate horse riding in these types of games (Skyrim was no exception).
- I entered basically every cave/fort/instance I could find.
- My gameplay was broken up into a couple hours a day, so I didn't mind just doing a bit of exploring and questing, leveling up a few times, then shutting down. It was a solid gameplay loop.
- The game really is beautiful. Sometimes I would stand around and stare at mountains.

 

[Fallen Kell]

- The game really is beautiful. Sometimes I would stand around and stare at mountains.

Wait until you apply the various graphics mods that have come out... I will say that having a decent graphics card is a requirement if you do apply many of these (I know I had lots of issues when the game first came out because I had a mid-tier card at the time). Many of the mods will put current gen cards in for a rough ride, but it sure makes the game look amazing doing so (some of the grass and trees mods come to mind, as well as the water and lighting mods, and 4k texture mods...).

 

[nakedfrog]

I'm gonna have to add this to my list to re-visit now that I have more capable hardware and a higher refresh rate display. Don't think I've seriously played it in 6-7 years, maybe?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Started up a new game to play through as a Bosmer Sneak Archer (Which apparently is a thing in the Skyrim community). Enjoying the experience, in some ways it feels like a new game going in armed with the knowledge from my first playthrough.

 

[DigDog]

i didnt like it.

i know i know. .. you guys love skyrim.


I liked Oblivion quite a lot; in fact, Oblivion is the only game that i have ever launched just to *play* with it. I would just walk around in the grass, or get lost in a forest.

To me Oblivion felt much more alive than Skyrim did. Maybe it's the design, the color. It really grated me that Skyrim has these intense weather effects that have zero effect on you. Snowstorm in a loincloth? ok.

I also liked the levelling system in Oblivion better, although it was terribly different.

In both games, i hated that you will eventually compelte all the questlines and you will become HEAD OF EVERYTHING, Dragonborn, saviour of the world, lord of every city, head of every guild, beloved by everyone.
I also hated the quest markers and the fact that you can literally skip everything and still progress.

The combat is risible - there is no difficulty, everything is overpowered, from smithing, to alchemy, to stealth, to archery, ro spellcrafting, and the game really doesnt care that it has no challenge.

And none of the issues with Oblivion were fixed. And, i liked the speech minigame. And ENOUGH WITH THE NPC QUIPS.

Oblivion's main questline was also boring AF, i hated the oblivion gates, just this boring and repetitive grind zone. But i liked the atmospherer much more.

I loved the daedric quests in both games. I really liked how there is a corner of madness in these otherwise nice and clean worlds.

All in all Skyrim .. is meh. It sure has some good technical aspects to it, but i dont find it exciting visually, in gameplay, or in story.

 

[Oyeve]

I still come back to Skyrim every now and then. Played it on xbox 360, then on PC, then on PC again when they enhanced it, then on the Switch. On PC alone I have 500+ hours.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I still come back to Skyrim every now and then. Played it on xbox 360, then on PC, then on PC again when they enhanced it, then on the Switch. On PC alone I have 500+ hours.

Indeed. I'm trying to play through some of my backlog right now (Lost Planet) but I keep feeling the lure of Skyrim calling me back.

 

[zinfamous]

i didnt like it.

i know i know. .. you guys love skyrim.


I liked Oblivion quite a lot; in fact, Oblivion is the only game that i have ever launched just to *play* with it. I would just walk around in the grass, or get lost in a forest.

To me Oblivion felt much more alive than Skyrim did. Maybe it's the design, the color. It really grated me that Skyrim has these intense weather effects that have zero effect on you. Snowstorm in a loincloth? ok.

I also liked the levelling system in Oblivion better, although it was terribly different.

In both games, i hated that you will eventually compelte all the questlines and you will become HEAD OF EVERYTHING, Dragonborn, saviour of the world, lord of every city, head of every guild, beloved by everyone.
I also hated the quest markers and the fact that you can literally skip everything and still progress.

The combat is risible - there is no difficulty, everything is overpowered, from smithing, to alchemy, to stealth, to archery, ro spellcrafting, and the game really doesnt care that it has no challenge.

And none of the issues with Oblivion were fixed. And, i liked the speech minigame. And ENOUGH WITH THE NPC QUIPS.

Oblivion's main questline was also boring AF, i hated the oblivion gates, just this boring and repetitive grind zone. But i liked the atmospherer much more.

I loved the daedric quests in both games. I really liked how there is a corner of madness in these otherwise nice and clean worlds.

All in all Skyrim .. is meh. It sure has some good technical aspects to it, but i dont find it exciting visually, in gameplay, or in story.

of course...Skyrim has mods for all of those issues, especially the weather/element effects that you can adjust to be very, very impactful (like freezing to death within ~hour of in-game time if you choose to swim around in freezing water if you don't build a fire and shelter...from wood that you had to gather, as well as tents that you had to purchase).

It has a ton of options to add a lot of useful mechanics to the game.

weird that you prefer the leveling system in Oblivion, as it tends to be touted as one of the most baleful systems in any game.

I think I only played Oblivion for 20 or so hours, but I just never could get into it. :\

 

[Fallen Kell]

To me Oblivion felt much more alive than Skyrim did. Maybe it's the design, the color. It really grated me that Skyrim has these intense weather effects that have zero effect on you. Snowstorm in a loincloth? ok.

That would be the mod called "immersive survival" and/or "Frostfall". There are others as well. I have used the immersive survival myself (it is also part of the "S.T.E.P." mods which was a good starting base for many people new to modding skyrim).

 

[DigDog]

i want to be clear here - i am referring ONLY to vanilla Skyrim (VS).

I accept that modded skyrim (MS from now onwards) can be a much better game, and, i like that. I like that the community has put so much work into it and i know that gamer communities are amazing; i staunchly defend the use of community-generated content in NWN and think it is unforgivable when a game could support it but doesn't.
However:
1. pre-F76 Bethesda has money and reputation to burn, and it's a disgrace that they cannot come up with this stuff themselves. or that nobody in their what, 160+ ppl development team, didnt stop to say "how is this guy walking around in an ice storm?" This applies to everything within skyrim. There isn't a thing that coulnd't have been done -substantially- better.
2. i got skyrim shortly after launch, so the mods available then were limited to female armor and big boobies mod. total conversion mods were not a thing yet (at least outside of Minecraft).
If you have never played skyrim and you start today, with all the best mods, you will have a far superior experience than someone like me who got VS at launch.


consider that Oblivion was technically on another level compared to games being released on the same date. Skyrim wasn't.


but the thing that most upset me was that the gameplay - the fighting the monsters with spells and sword - was bad. It was bad in Oblivion as well, but i was ready to forgive Oblivion because of, as i said, how advanced that game was at launch. Oblivion was clearly a game dedicated to mastering how visually beautiful a game world can be. So, you know, combat is not that important.
Skyrim is .. has some advancements compared to Oblivion (the water effects are insane), but they made this decision of using ice a lot, and making a lot of areas look gray, which doesnt make it look as good as Obliviion. More modern yes, more beautiful, no. (And also the ice throws you our of the immersion when you can't "feel" it).

It's my firm opinion that RPG games should NOT be based on a FPS format. The only such game that i believe did a good job of first person combat was early Mount & Blade betas, and they too had many one-sided combat situations.
The core belief of a RPG is that person X is many, many times stronger than person Y. You can have one guy with 5hp and 1d4 attack damage and then you got another guy with 200hp and 6d6 attack damage. This does not reflect in reality, so it's best to leave it to a simulation. Also, anoter tenet of RPGs is that the player CANNOT influence the abilities of the character - they can only dictate their actions .

In simple words, you shouldn't allow my lev1 character to kill a giant just because my player skill level allows me to strafe aorund him and pelt him with arrows.

Nor should you release a game where i can win most battles by getting mobs stuck in the world's geometry.

For once i am not gonna go in details in how i think Skyrim is a bad RPG (which also apply to Fallout), but simply say that Skyrim does not have the WOW! factor that Oblivion had.