The Outer Worlds

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,297
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It auto pauses on entry to combat, and allows you to pause and manage all of your party members moves for each round. If that doesn't count for turn based, I don't know what does.
It still acts very different from ...what used to be called? turn-based: Civilization, Fallout 1 and 2, etc. you have action points to spend per actual turn (Fallout), and then your turn ends, and then the AI makes their moves. To me, KOTOR is more like, well, you can pause it at will, but you and the AI are all active at the same time. To me, that is very different if everyone is active, not waiting to trade moves. The difference between, say the FF games with ATBS (like FF2 or 3), or the turn-based FF1 or 10 battle systems.

Yes, it's been many years since I played KOTOR (never played KOTOR 2), but I just remember the first pause when you are in aggro range, issue commands, and just everyone bashes at things running through the command list, skill-checking on each command. I don't even recall pausing after a battle started, but I know that you could.
 
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mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,292
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but you and the AI are all active at the same time
Combat is done in rounds though, it's very turn based, and I would always utilize pausing in combat to prioritize targets, apply CC force abilities to the proper mobs, etc.

I enjoy micromanaging a party in turn based combat like that.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,297
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Combat is done in rounds though, it's very turn based, and I would always utilize pausing in combat to prioritize targets, apply CC force abilities to the proper mobs, etc.

I enjoy micromanaging a party in turn based combat like that.
yeah, I get that. I guess I've just always maintained a specific definition to what "turn-based" means when I read it, based on those grid-based, per-turn games like Civ or whatever. Not that it matters--it just means that I was thoroughly confused when I saw KOTOR described that way.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
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Real-time with pause isn't really the same as turn based. One of the biggest difference is how AOE works. In a real turn based system you know exactly who you are hitting with that fireball. In RT-pause both enemies and friendlies can move during the casting time.

Some RT-Pause are turn based systems at their core like baulders gate. But still you have simultaneous actions. Others (generally those not built on pen and paper games) are just designed around delays rather than the concept of turns from the start.

I've enjoyed both, but a real turn based system is much more of a tactics puzzle. RT-Pause is great for churning through fights that aren't super tough, but its really tough to get the most of out all your characters.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
7,600
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Several big isometric RPGs in the last 2-3 years.
Also, I don't want ARPGs. I want turn-based RPGs like KOTOR and KOTOR 2.
From just the last few years isometric RPGs have had:
divinity original sin 2 in 2017
Pillars of eternity 2 in 2018
Grim dawn in 2016

And going back another 2-3 years gives you the first game of both divinity and pillars of eternity series. On top of F2P stuff like path of exile.


Whereas besides the outer worlds, The witcher 3 and Dragon age inquisition are the only "recent" RPGs i've cared about, and they were 4-5 years ago.
Grim Dawn isn't turn-based, that is purely ARPG a la Diablo, PoE. D:OS1/2 and PoE 1/2 are notable recent ones. There's probably dozens of others on Steam though of varying quality.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,292
319
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One of the biggest difference is how AOE works. In a real turn based system you know exactly who you are hitting with that fireball. In RT-pause both enemies and friendlies can move during the casting time.
Doesn't matter in KOTOR, any force ability you cast on a target, hits that target. AOE abilities require a target, you can't just cast it into nothing.
If I cast a Force Whirlwind, it will hit whoever it was cast against, which CAN fuck you up if they move out of a big mob at the right timing, but it will still hit the person you selected.

Not to mention in KOTOR, there are no force abilities that can damage party members, so it wouldn't matter if an ally got in range of an AOE attack.

KOTOR is based on the Wizards of the Coast D20 system created specifically for "Star Wars Roleplaying Game" which itself was based on D&D 3e rules. It's very much a turn-based game in how combat rounds, damage, force abilites are done. Not to mention the character progression skills and feats being very D&D-like (3rd edition anyway, not really 5th edition).


Grim Dawn isn't turn-based, that is purely ARPG a la Diablo, PoE. D:OS1/2 and PoE 1/2 are notable recent ones. There's probably dozens of others on Steam though of varying quality.
I was talking about isometric RPGs in general, not specifically turn-based isometrics.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
7,600
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I was talking about isometric RPGs in general, not specifically turn-based isometrics.
Understood, my mistake. In that case, I'd also recommend Path of Exile, that's a hoot. If you're in the mood for something a little more off-beat, try Victor Vran, much more 'action' oriented, and a lot of fun. 'The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing' is well reviewed, I don't have that one though.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,297
15,456
136
Understood, my mistake. In that case, I'd also recommend Path of Exile, that's a hoot. If you're in the mood for something a little more off-beat, try Victor Vran, much more 'action' oriented, and a lot of fun. 'The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing' is well reviewed, I don't have that one though.
I like Van Helsing a lot, it has some interesting, unique mechanics with secondary skill functions based on power build-up and linking to other skills (I forget the details...it's been a while). But I also never finished a single play through. It also has some not-entirely superfluous base building and tower defense mechanics, which I guess adds another level of depth to it.

...damn, I should fire that up again, I did have some fun with it. ..but I found that I just don't finish these games anymore. Same with Grim Dawn. I like them all, just never finish.
 
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DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,157
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It looks like my nephew (14 y/o) is getting this game for Xmas, my sister is getting soft.

At best KOTOR could be described as a hybrid but I generally wouldn't classify it as a turn based game.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,021
195
116
A starting point? It should have been much better then. They could have made a much better game IMO. A better game would have been a better starting point. Now I will not buy the second or third game if they make more. This one ruined it for me and after spending $59.99 I feel like I got burned.

Ending point is more like it. Looking at reviews though there are so many great reviews for this game so I figure they think they blew it out of the park.
Cry me a river.

I kid, I kid. I'd be a little peeved as well if I'd spent $60 and got 20 hours of gameplay that I didn't really care for.

That said, I'm playing on Gamepass and am having a decent time with this game. Solid start and I am excited to see where Obsidian takes the sequel.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,292
319
136
Agreed. I did like ToR, and the story is actually really good (if you go Sith, anyway) and KOTOR-like, but it just isn't the same.
I played so much during the beta, i never found a reason to purchase it.

It's fine for what it is, but it's not KOTOR.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,096
872
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It's ridiculous: EA has the Star Wars license. EA owns Bioware. Bioware was responsible for KOTOR. Bioware makes Anthe...wait what the **** what. were. they. thinking.
Well thankfully the Jedi Fallen Order was not made by Bioware, or any of the failing branches Bioware now has.
And as for how it plays, well im hearing good stuff from the initial hints.
As for how the game really plays, i'll let you know tomorrow as my Origin Premier has it included and i am preloaded to play it at 9:00PST.

Anyhow back to OuterWorlds, the game sadly bored me to death, and i have not yet been able to finish it.
Again it felt like such a chore, go talk to this person, go read this, go fetch this, and the fruity graphics starts just annoying.
Its one thing if you have slightly cartoony graphics like borderlands with fruity color, but fallout style with fruity colors, well, that's one thing i think bethesda got correct with fallout.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,217
598
136
Well thankfully the Jedi Fallen Order was not made by Bioware, or any of the failing branches Bioware now has.
And as for how it plays, well im hearing good stuff from the initial hints.
As for how the game really plays, i'll let you know tomorrow as my Origin Premier has it included and i am preloaded to play it at 9:00PST.

Anyhow back to OuterWorlds, the game sadly bored me to death, and i have not yet been able to finish it.
Again it felt like such a chore, go talk to this person, go read this, go fetch this, and the fruity graphics starts just annoying.
Its one thing if you have slightly cartoony graphics like borderlands with fruity color, but fallout style with fruity colors, well, that's one thing i think bethesda got correct with fallout.
- I admit I'm not all that interested in Fallen Order. My understanding is that it is more of a hack n' slash/third person brawler in the vein of The Force Unleashed than KOTOR.

I figured that even before EA picked up the exclusive SW license, they would have asked each of their studios to draft plans for a SW game: DICE obviously goes for the Multiplayer shooter while Bioware picks up the RPG side of things. SW Empire at War follow-up for RTS. Etc etc.

Its really staggering how badly EA has squandered its exclusive license.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,157
114
106
Bioware made Anthem, which sucks and that is the type of game Bioware is set to make more of. The only way we'll see another KOTOR is if EA/Bioware has nothing to do with it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,339
300
126
Gaming meets Wall Street = games as services lootboxes crippled game alienating customers. You can see the meetings talking about stock price.

They learn the language - it's like when the head of Bethesda said they realized they were just making good games, and then not 'touching' players again while they enjoyed them, missing out on a lot of chances to make more money.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,511
202
106
- I admit I'm not all that interested in Fallen Order. My understanding is that it is more of a hack n' slash/third person brawler in the vein of The Force Unleashed than KOTOR.
Yup, totally 3rd person melee brawler. No RPG really. I mean you pick skill upgrades, but that's bout it. Glad I only payed $15 for it. I get really tired of fighting the camera and dying in these games.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
683
26
91
Got this game for free with a video card. The fallout comparison is apt. I love the music, and I think the time dilation mechanic is waaaaaaaaay superior to VATS. I wonder if the "late stage capitalism" dystopia motif will get old quickly?
 

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