The Other Unemployment Rate - 41% of adults not working

[Apple Of Sodom]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/18/news/economy/other-unemployment-rate/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Interesting article. The unemployment percentage only includes individuals who are unemployed and have searched for a job in the last 4 weeks. It does not include all of the people who quit looking, haven't searched for more than 4 weeks, are too proud to claim unemployment, or simply don't want to work.

"The employment-to-population ratio is the best measure of labor market conditions and it currently shows that there has been almost no improvement whatsoever over the past three years,"

The article states that the trend is continuing. While it is the worst it has ever been it has been in decline for years and years.

Do you think this is a problem with our country? Why do so many people not want to work? When we talk about raising taxes, class warfare, the poor barely being able to survive...keep in mind that NEARLY HALF of all Americans are out of work because they choose to be for one reason or another. They aren't technically unemployed; they aren't even looking for a job.

 

[EagleKeeper]

People get discouraged when they see a job advertised and prepare for it.
then there are 100 other people that have shown up or they find out that the skill set that they have is not enough to get the job or missing something to get in the door to sell ones self.

 

[ElFenix]

stats in a vacuum are stats in a vacuum

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000/

and

http://www.businessinsider.com/labo...-falls-to-its-lowest-level-in-31-years-2012-9

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

People get discouraged when they see a job advertised and prepare for it.
then there are 100 other people that have shown up or they find out that the skill set that they have is not enough to get the job or missing something to get in the door to sell ones self.

Then those people are part of the problem. While this statistic is going to include people who don't need to work (my parents are retired and have no need to work due to pension, for example) it includes a lot of people that are not in this category. Why is it that 41% of Americans are "allowed" to not work but they still keep using our resources? Everyone, left and right all throughout the spectrum, should be outraged at this. Take 100 adults. 41 of those adults are using the same resources as everyone else but have no job, pay no taxes, and most don't want one.

Maybe we wouldn't have to raise income tax if the other half (hell, even quarter) of our population started working and having income to tax.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

stats in a vacuum are stats in a vacuum

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000/

and

http://www.businessinsider.com/labo...-falls-to-its-lowest-level-in-31-years-2012-9

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

The labor force is shrinking. Your own links confirmed the CNN article. They are shrinking because people are even worse than unemployed - they aren't even looking for a job. It is the worst it has been in history and is declining rapidly. This isn't an R or a D thing necessarily. How does 41% of the population live by not working?

 

[Agent11]

So you are under the assumption that there are jobs unfilled, ready to go for 25% of the country? Are you stupid?

Start employing people, you have a long way to go.

My guess would be live with a parent/girlfriend/brother/sister/grandparent or under a bridge.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ditch retirees and one income families. Now what's the figure?

 

[momeNt]

Nothing to see here.

We just need to come up with new definitions of employment and we can raise that number substantially. Savings account drainer. Empty nest filler. iPhone 5 line holder. Pocket change solicitor.

If you aren't starving to death with literally nothing to eat or clothe yourself and have no shelter, then you are deriving some sort of benefit from somewhere. To count employment as "earning money" is short sighted and yields statistic that look really really bad. We need a splash of sunshine on our statistics and people will start cheering up.

 

[momeNt]

Ditch retirees and one income families. Now what's the figure?

I think other "hidden" unemployment figures which do take that into account is something like 18-20%

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

So you are under the assumption that there are jobs unfilled, ready to go for 25% of the country? Are you stupid?

Start employing people, you have a long way to go.

Nice contribution. I can see you must have been on the debate team at your highschool.

I am an employer and have a hell of a time trying to find employees. Of my employees only half want to be there. The other half constantly job hop and do not want to work at all. One girl is unemployed and won't accept a job because we split tips with all staff instead of just the cashiers...it is ridiculous.

A quick glance through employment pages shows there are a lot of jobs open. Sure, a lot are only a buck or two above minimum wage, but it is still employment. I'm not saying we have 10 million vacancies...but I can tell you what the labor pool is like and how hard it is to find people to fill positions.

 

[ElFenix]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

The labor force is shrinking. Your own links confirmed the CNN article. They are shrinking because people are even worse than unemployed - they aren't even looking for a job. It is the worst it has been in history and is declining rapidly. This isn't an R or a D thing necessarily. How does 41% of the population live by not working?

no, CNN gave 1 data point and made a reference to the 80s.


that's not a household labor participation rate. what happened was starting in the 60s more and more married women went to work. then more and more married women with children went to work. "latchkey kids" were the next ginormous social problem in the early 90s.

 

[jackstar7]

Wait until baby boom retirement really gets going... it's going to get exciting.

 

[ivwshane]

The baby boomer generation is retiring and the number of them retiring was not a linear thing.

Note: this graph doesn't show who is retiring but rather the potential of people who will be eligible to retire.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Nothing to see here.

We just need to come up with new definitions of employment and we can raise that number substantially. Savings account drainer. Empty nest filler. iPhone 5 line holder. Pocket change solicitor.

If you aren't starving to death with literally nothing to eat or clothe yourself and have no shelter, then you are deriving some sort of benefit from somewhere. To count employment as "earning money" is short sighted and yields statistic that look really really bad. We need a splash of sunshine on our statistics and people will start cheering up.

Maybe that is why we need a 20% national sales tax and no income tax. The rich retiree, the stock trader, the drug dealer... the people who don't earn money and aren't be taxed (including those only paying cap gains) can pay for their fair share through sales tax.

Anyhow, we shouldn't change the definition of what employment is. The fact of the matter is that we have been plunging south since about 2001, and even worse in the last few years. I don't think we have more empty nest fillers and saving account drainers now than we did in 1981.

 

[Agent11]

Nice contribution. I can see you must have been on the debate team at your highschool.

I am an employer and have a hell of a time trying to find employees. Of my employees only half want to be there. The other half constantly job hop and do not want to work at all. One girl is unemployed and won't accept a job because we split tips with all staff instead of just the cashiers...it is ridiculous.

A quick glance through employment pages shows there are a lot of jobs open. Sure, a lot are only a buck or two above minimum wage, but it is still employment. I'm not saying we have 10 million vacancies...but I can tell you what the labor pool is like and how hard it is to find people to fill positions.

Maybe you are just unpleasant to work for then. Or you are inflexible in scheduling to accommodate multiple jobs.

And if you have a hard time retaining quality waitresses you should rethink your tip policy.

 

[pauldun170]

When I get home, I'm going to to tell my wife that she is a leach on society and needs to get a job.
This "stay at home" mom business she claims is obviously caused by the Obama administration policies.

Also setting a reminder to yell at my parents. They stopped looking for work last year...claiming some bs about retirement.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you want to be rich, and all worthwhile people want to be rich, it's what's in the Bible, that God helps those who help themselves, then you have to sell something people want in large numbers. This means you have to make them want it if they don't really need it, so you have to fuck with their minds, and then you have to make it in China. A Godly American, then, is a parasite on his own society and destroys it for the sake of money. Sacred work, because of the reputation money brings. Some local job creation, however is inevitable. The more we can beak unions and destroy regulation, however, the better we will do financially locally though. Otherwise we can move our money off shore and have a number of houses here and there.

There is only one thing in life that matters and that's money. Money buys everything. There is no place called heaven so grab all the gusto you can. Have a beer. And give some to charity and your church.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

The baby boomer generation is retiring and the number of them retiring was not a linear thing.

Correct. It states that 60% of this number include people between age 18-25 and over 60.

So, 40% of the not working are between 25 and 60. Still a HUGE number.

I think entitlement programs make it easier to not work. I was a landlord for some time and my section 8 renters were the worst. I had able bodied 30 year old men who spent the day dodging work. They put more effort into not working than anything else. That is because the state paid $900/month in rent, utilities, and for their food. They would have needed $15/hr jobs to make that kind of money and even then...why work 40 hours a week when you don't have to.

 

[Texashiker]

The labor force is shrinking.

We are also in one of the largest retirement phases in US history, and that is the retirement of the baby-boomers.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Maybe you are just unpleasant to work for then. Or you are inflexible in scheduling to accommodate multiple jobs.

And if you have a hard time retaining quality waitresses you should rethink your tip policy.

Maybe you make a lot of assumptions.
Unpleasant is subjective so I cannot say one way or another. Of our employees only 2 have quit and that was because college was harder than they thought. We have fired a few employees for not showing up, calling in sick all the time, coming in hung over too often...and all have asked for their jobs back. One actually wrote a letter stating how he would do better if we would hire him back. And he is doing better.

We are very flexible working around college and high school schedules, or even second job schedules.

We don't have waitresses. That is not the only type of business that accepts tips.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

When I get home, I'm going to to tell my wife that she is a leach on society and needs to get a job.
This "stay at home" mom business she claims is obviously caused by the Obama administration policies.

Also setting a reminder to yell at my parents. They stopped looking for work last year...claiming some bs about retirement.

I didn't claim that and I even mentioned certain segments that don't want to work, which is fine. I don't believe that 40% of Americans are retired or stay at home moms/dads. Are there more of them now than there were in 2000 when our labor pool was highest?

 

[nehalem256]

I didn't claim that and I even mentioned certain segments that don't want to work, which is fine. I don't believe that 40% of Americans are retired or stay at home moms/dads. Are there more of them now than there were in 2000 when our labor pool was highest?

Call it

10% retired

10% unemployed but wanting work

5% students

5% stay at home moms with a working husband

You are already at 30%

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

We are also in one of the largest retirement phases in US history, and that is the retirement of the baby-boomers.

True. But they make up less than half of this number. Maybe we, as a country, should have thought about this a long time ago and given more incentive for people to have children.

 

[Svnla]

Also, don't forget about "underemployed" - folks that want to work full time but could not get it or employed but not up to to their skill/education/potential.

 

[SheHateMe]

People get discouraged when they see a job advertised and prepare for it.
then there are 100 other people that have shown up or they find out that the skill set that they have is not enough to get the job or missing something to get in the door to sell ones self.

My boss posted listings for 4 positions he was trying to fill for our group. Its an IT job, pays well for students and you don't have to know everything under the sun to get it. He is looking for enthusiastic people who have the basic skills to come into the job and do well while learning at the same time. He is very generous with raises and will give them to you permitting you learn how to handle the tasks we are charged with. It is literally that dream job students wish they had in College, you will have tons of money for booze, the clubs, food, clothes, and shelter.

Anyway, he had about 100 applications and resumes sent in. Didn't feel like going through all of them. So what he did was create a questionnaire with 5 questions that required long answers (~2 paragraphs).

Out of the 100 people that applied...guess how many bothered to send that Questionnaire back in?