**The Official FALLOUT 3 Thread**

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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
http://i248.photobucket.com/al...asteland_supmutant.jpg

Why on earth was the supermutant doing a headstand so the player could blow his leg off while shooting at shoulder level?

Between this and the one with the 200 year old ravenous man beast ghoul who still has pants on, I really wonder what on earth is going on over at Bethesda.

Deus Ex 2-esque physics, probably. Shoot a guy in the head and he'll do a couple of cartwheels.


But if you shoot a guy in the head it's not his leg that gets blown off.

I'm not looking forward to this. I'm a big fan of Fallout 1 and 2 and would love to see another game like those. This however looks like Oblivion with different graphics, a twitch game instead of a turn game. They *could* have made Fallout 3 with the same game mechanics and updated graphics. Too bad they just chose to reuse an existing game engine that didn't mesh with the original games.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
New hands on previews:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43207
In fact, at times it feels exactly like Oblivion in terms of mission structure and the way you navigate the world
Fan interview:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsfor...x.php?showtopic=856489
non-quest related NPC's vulnerable or invulnerable to accidental or purposeful (deadly) harm?

In regards to essential NPCs, it works like Oblivion
include some sort of SDK or level editor like Elder Scrolls games have?

Our focus is first and foremost the game
How advanced will the AI of NPC's be this time around?

Like Oblivion, we use our Radiant AI system
What will the map travel look like?

It works like Oblivion
What sort of weather effects will we be seeing

Other than different cloud types that come and go, there are no other weather effects
What can you tell us about companion NPC's

There are a very limited number of them and they are hard to get.
How much will the main storyline tie into the storylines of the previous games?

It has the themes of the previous games, but is not a continuation of that specific story and those locations.
How does the player's Perception affect the radar's maximum number of targets? Should we think of something along the lines of Counter Strike, or a quest compass like Oblivion had? And if it's the latter, are we able to toggle it?

It's most like the Oblivion compass


 

VashHT

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2007
3,379
1,474
136
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Sounds like they took the Oblivion engine and did a huge graphical mod to it.

Too true, I really hope this doesn't turn out to be "Oblivion with guns", it would really suck. Sure Oblivion was a pretty good game, but it was a different game than Fallout, using the same formula won't really make a good FO game imo.

On a side note I hope they updated their AI because it was awful in Oblivion, some of the worst AI I have ever seen.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
if you found (oblivion's) RPG mechanics too complicated, Fallout 3 might not be the game for you.

Who found oblivion's RPG mechanics too complicated, a retarded 7 year old? :confused:
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,670
1
0
Originally posted by: Imp
Considering the quality of 'regular' voice actors (*cough* crappy actors), I'm happy they're hiring top of the line ones. Been playing Shivering Isles and it really is the same 2 or 3 people doing every voice. However, they all stink! In the original main quest, it was an absolute pleasure hearing dialogue from Picard and Sharpe:). Probably ran it over budget and costed the same as 20 regulars, but I've rarely heard any good ones. Just off the top of my head, the BEST voice actors I remember and loved the most are real film/movie actors. My all time favourite is Jon Irenicus in Baldur's Gate 2 played by David Warner (Various Star Trek parts). Too bad they can't just find another Hank Azaria to do an entire game...

I disagree. Regular actors are good at doing their specified part, but they need real voice actors who can do many characters well. You know that The Simpsons only has something like 5 actors for all of the characters in the show?
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Meh...From all I have read and heard this sounds like an Oblivion mod with a Fallout theme. I could care less about the graphics as Fallout was more about it's story, gameplay and atmosphere which it cultivated to perfection. So while the screen shots look nice they mean nothing without the proper game play mechanics, story line and atmosphere of the previous FO games. If this game can't capture the engaging storyline and mood of the previous games then it will of failed no matter how many fancy polygons and bumped mapped surfaces they throw up at me.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Originally posted by: schneiderguy
if you found (oblivion's) RPG mechanics too complicated, Fallout 3 might not be the game for you.

Who found oblivion's RPG mechanics too complicated, a retarded 7 year old? :confused:

Oblivion had RPG elements? Your character couldn't even really talk.

Fallout 3 is looking to be shaping into a title that should be avoided.
 

Ganeedi

Senior member
Jul 7, 2008
258
0
0
I'm still holding out hope for F3. I urge you all to read the full fan interview rather than Schadenfroh's (rather brief) synopsis.

Heres the full answer regarding AI:

How advanced will the AI of NPC's be this time around? Are they really going to have a life? Speaking to other NPC's in a logical manner, traveling and trading with/in faraway places, Submitting to the player rather than fighting if they know, or think, they're no match for him?

I wish I could answer with a number, like "it will be 17 advanced." AI is difficult to define, the NPCs certainly appear much smarter than our previous stuff, by a lot. Much of that is us giving them better data, massaging what they do so the player gets to see more of it. We added a lot of animations, so people in town are doing more. They "seem" to be interacting with the world in a more realistic manner, but that usually means going up to something and playing an animation. It can be something really simple, like we added "lean against wall". It's funny how something that small can give life to a person. They walk into a space, and just lean against the wall, arms folded. Like Oblivion, we use our Radiant AI system, so most of the NPCs eat, sleep, work, etc. I think we take it for granted now, but it's pretty great to have that level of control. We've also done a lot to the conversation system, which makes them seem a lot smarter, but again, that's better data, not a new system.

On the technical side we spent most of our time doing an all new pathfinding system. Morrowind/Oblivion use nodes for pathing and Fallout uses a navmesh. This is the difference between an NPC having a valid point to stand on (node) versus an area to stand in, or walk around (mesh). You can do much more sophisticated actor movement and behavior with a navmesh, and I think you'll see the results onscreen, especially when the bullets start flying. The actors do a great job of finding cover and using the space well, something we could never have done with pathnodes.

In terms of the NPCs traveling around, many travel around town, and some travel the wasteland. There are a few caravans in the game that go from town to town trading. Radiant AI handles something like that really well.

Lastly, as far as submitting to a more powerful foe, yes they do that, in that they run away. If they're overmatched, they holster their weapon, flee and try to hide. While this sounds cool on paper, it's often not fun at all, and we've ended up really dialing that back, because it gets really annoying really fast, to have people run away all the time. The main faction that still acts like this are the Raiders, the others don't do it so much
 
Apr 16, 2008
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I don't want to say it's all doom and gloom for FO3 but they are really lobotomizing the game from it's roots. You can't kill quest givers, you can't kill the pick pocketing children, perks have been rolled into skills.

It's starting to feel a lot more like an Oblivion mod than it did at first.

That said, I have the Collectors edition pre-ordered and I still want to play it on day one. I needs me some more fallout.
 

Scrimmy

Member
Oct 19, 2007
144
0
0
Originally posted by: Bateluer
Originally posted by: schneiderguy
if you found (oblivion's) RPG mechanics too complicated, Fallout 3 might not be the game for you.

Who found oblivion's RPG mechanics too complicated, a retarded 7 year old? :confused:

Oblivion had RPG elements? Your character couldn't even really talk.

Fallout 3 is looking to be shaping into a title that should be avoided.

Yep, this is actually starting to depress me a little. The Baldur's Gate series and the original Fallout series are probably my two all-time favorite computer games. Bethesda has done some interesting stuff, but they've always operated under a completely different set of design principles than Black Isle Studios. Bethesda games are mostly about sandbox play, but what made Black Isle Studios games great, even with a fair amount of open content and exploration, was the fact that the writing (both the story and the dialog) was so exceptional.

Even if Bethesda manages to get the voice acting up to par, which apart from a few big-name actors I'm not convinced they'll be able to do (the normal voices in Oblivion were so bad they drove me up the freaking wall, let alone the fact that it was three actors doing the exact same voices for all the characters), the lines the actors are reading are every bit as important to good acting as the actors themselves. Patrick Stewart did fine voice acting in Oblivion, but the story itself did nothing at all for me, and some of the lines were just painfully bad.

The Fallouts and the BGs on the other hand, had absolutely amazing dialogue and the good lines came from the players and the NPCs. Pick the right dialog option (often something seeming a little random) and you could have some really hilarious conversations. The amount of attention to detail in those games was just staggering and I've never seen anything like it in a Bethesda game.

It's not that I have any grudge against Bethesda; they make fine games that just happen to not be what the kind of RPGs I really enjoy. The thing is, I don't like the fact that they picked up one of the RPGs series that defined the genre and are turning it into something completely different. The Fallout setting was great, but it wasn't the setting that made the games great, it was the fact there was so much effort put into making a game that actually asked a lot of interesting questions and then watched them all play out. The ending of Fallout 1, in particular, was just amazing when I first saw it because it was so unexpected and so poignant, but made perfect sense in the context of the game.

The best analogy I can think of here is Godfather 3. The first two Godfather movies were absolute classics of film. Then they went back 20+ years later to make the third movie and it wasn't the same thing at all.
 

Lumathix

Golden Member
Mar 16, 2004
1,686
0
46
This is cool. I haven't kept up with the 3rd installment in this series, since Black Isles was no-more. Now it's only a couple weeks away, and I've finally been checking it out. Looks kind of cool. And overall I think Bethesda is a decent developer. I grew up on the old Fallout games, so I'm excited about this one. I'm thinking this one will have a good bit more depth than Dead Space, which is released a week before. My only problem is I'm excited about both games! I forsee my GF having issues :(
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if this game is basically Oblivion in the Fallout universe I'll be happy :p
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: Beev
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if this game is basically Oblivion in the Fallout universe I'll be happy :p

I don't see nothing wrong in that. Bathesda never failed me, so I bet this will be a kick ass game!
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: Beev
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if this game is basically Oblivion in the Fallout universe I'll be happy :p

For the most part, I see no problem. As long as there is no level scaling, then we're more than good. Getting to level 45 only to have to wail on the same bandit 50 times cause he somehow got daedric armor is retarded. It was awesome that I wailed on the level 20 guy in steel armor as a level 5 for half an hour and won; took hours, but what a sense of accomplishment.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
Originally posted by: Imp
Originally posted by: Beev
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but if this game is basically Oblivion in the Fallout universe I'll be happy :p

For the most part, I see no problem. As long as there is no level scaling, then we're more than good. Getting to level 45 only to have to wail on the same bandit 50 times cause he somehow got daedric armor is retarded. It was awesome that I wailed on the level 20 guy in steel armor as a level 5 for half an hour and won; took hours, but what a sense of accomplishment.

If that happens I'll just do what I did in Oblivion: make a custom class with major skills set to stuff I'll never use (destruction, illusion, etc) then make an archer character. I'll get better at marksmanship while the enemies stay weak :p
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
Excerpts from CanardPC's look at Fallout3, taken from http://www.nma-fallout.com

He's French and the wording is a little strange, but it's clear he's not happy. I don't blame him.

Critical Hit on our hopes...

The more time passes, the more I feel like this dog, barking and foaming at every car that happens to be passing by. I run after them, trying to bite their wheel rims, to crush their tires, their muffler, but I miss.They are going too fast, too far from me. And even if I succeeded ? What would happen anyway ? I bite a moving wheel, it stomps my face, I assault some scrap, it smashes my teeth. Some things are so lifeless, so sluggish that you can't possibly let off steam on them. Fallout 3, anyone ?
[...]
This article is not a test. Just an "introduction for things to come". Why? Because the conditions under which I had to play this "RPG" were not acceptable: sixteen hours in a row in a luxurious hotel on an almost finished build, Bethesda asking to see my screenshots in order to "approve" them...These factors, going from obnoxious to truly scandalous would have made my review biased or even dishonest. Well, I mean a little more dishonest than what I usually do. But have no fear, even though I was deprived of my screenshots, I'm not deprived from my opinion. Condolences: Fallout 3 is a sluggish device, soulless, not exactly terrible, actually almost enjoyable, but totally forgettable because of uncountable dishonest compromises.
[...]
From what I've seen, Fallout 3 does not have any of the qualities of the previous episodes. But that was to be expected. However, it has none of the diffuse magic of the Elder Scrolls series. It feels like Bethesda made a break with this new title, a sad bend towards products multiplying "fan service", the dumb, goofy stuff that will make the client laugh, the "awsum roxxorz" elements and micro-gameplay to the detriment of world coherence and deeper mechanisms. To sum it all up, expect loads of shallow combat spoiled by VATS and slowmotion sequences as gore as pathetic, a terribly short main quest - a Spanish colleague has finished it in less than an afternoon, during his first playthrough - nice secondary quests, but which completely missed the intelligence and density of the series, the whole being flavored with failed occasions.
[...]
With technical means a lot inferior, Fallout 1 and 2 managed to depict this world in all its rococo excess and misery in a formidable manner. But no, despite the dismantled bridges, the huge depth of field, the buildings trying their best not to fall down, it just does not work. By the way, when I came back to CanardPC and people asked me "How is Fallout 3?", honestly, all that I could say at first was "Brown". These ochre shades smash, make the most eccentric idea - let's say, why not, the Washington area transformed into a battlefield scarred by trenches - bland, commonplace, immediately boring. Even worse, where the atmosphere of decay should have been palpable, when you are walking in a city overflowed by skyscrapers ruins, disembowelled roads, peopled by half-savages, one can focus on but one thing: ruins placed strategically to prevent you from crossing the street because designers decided that you shouldn't take THIS path.
[...]
Most locations you can discover are "raider dungeons". City ruins are copy-paste of the same and only model, here and there flavored by the same and only model of tricycle (the very poetic "Red Ryder") and even worse, the main quest will get you through an Hellgate London-ish nightmare in which you had to pass through kilometers of underground for hours and hours.
[...]
How about random encounters ? Well, I have yet to see one. Caravans wander in between cities, you can meet on or two non-aggressive guys in the underground but nothing original at a random road crossing, nothing spectacular at all. Worse than this, Dogmeat is to be found in the exact same spot at the north east of the map while we were originally told that his location is random. However, depending on your karma, you will come across bounty-hunters. I know that this is a cool thing, but remember that you'll never be attacked during fast travels.
[...]
Even when you want to explore things and let alone the main quest for a while, it still tastes weird. Besides the cardboard sets, the feeling of emptiness suddenly goes away. Just like in Oblivion and Gothic 3, adventure awaits at every corner of the street. Literally, unfortunately. A two minute walk and you're there! A design decision which probably has everything to do with the average attention span of the console gamer.
[...]
The Sims 2 : Apocalypse

The second element that makes me think that Fallout 3 is condemned to mediocrity, as a Fallout episode but also as an RPG, is the total lack of coherence between all the elements of gameplay. Just an example. Pretty soon, you'll discover that the game has more to do with a doll's house than with roleplaying: you spend your time picking up clothes or armor parts that, *magic trick*, influence your skills. Pick up a surgeon overall, gain five Medicine points. Wear a camping suit, your agility is increased. All of a sudden, the building of a "role" - a specialized but unique and believable character, exactly what made the core of Black Isle's RPGs - is blown away. You just have to spend your caps on weapons, but even that is not necessary...For the rest, everybody who thinks for at least thirty seconds can make a multivalent character. One just needs the appropriate clothes, drugs to suddenly turn into a pyrotechnician, scientist, or burglar.
[...]
On the other hand, don't expect to be able to convince anybody that originally does not like you. NPC reactions are determined by your Karma and even a professional liar won't be able to convince someone who does not like him to become his partner. But have no fear: you can change your reputation just like you can switch clothes. You're too good to obtain what you wish? Steal, kill generic NPCs (those with no name) and here you are: the incarnation of evil! But don't worry: after three days, people forget about your deeds and you are forgiven.

Your karma is too low for a particular quest? Just kill bad guys and give water to hobos (it comes for free if you have your own house) and there you go: holier than saints. Where the first Fallout episodes where built around balancing your own desires and deciding what sacrifices you were ready to do in order to fulfil them, Bethesda sweeps this and allows you to switch styles at will. Nothing is important any more, everything becomes relative. Everything black. Everything white. No need for grey when redemption and condemnation are made so easy.
[...]
Secondary quests are a bit more original, from the fight between a woman who thinks she is Queen of the Ants and a "graduated robotologist", to a black and white remake of Desperate Housewives flavored with Happy Days. Certain situations could lead to absurd results, like becoming the official crash dummy for a Wasteland Survival Guide. Unfortunately, everything remains nice and unoffensive. It echoes the impossibility of killing children and the completely avoided sex scenes - pay a prostitute and she will go to bed and sleep, not offering any particular dialog choice or text, not even a black screen. Bethesda's hero is apparently no hero in the sack...
[...]
In certain cases, I even feel like the usage of VATS is indispensable. Example: while underground, I come face to face with two gatling turrets and some feral ghouls. I kill the ghouls with the FPS view and then, unable hit the defense system, after several death and increasing frustration, gave up and switched to VATS. With hit chances like 3 to 5%: no way I'm going to succeed. Still, two critical hits. Gatlings destroyed. But only if you aim the sensors: elsewhere it does not work. Honestly it feels as if enemies had weak points and if you shot them where the developer expected you to shoot, then stats suddenly become useless, immediately replaced by critical hits. There we go: Dragon's Lair.
[...]
VATS slow motion may be the worst crime against video gaming since the invention of the auto-aim and checkpoint based save system.
I don't know what the people of Bethesda had in mind... Maybe they feared that the game would be too short and imposed a twenty seconds on us at each targeted shot to extend the gameplay length, maybe they really desire that we notice their face modeling with independent eye globes, maybe they simply suffer from blaring bad taste, from a love for Brotherhood of Steel they want to share at any price?

Either way, this "feature" that retarded teenagers and moronic fans of "self-confident but still crappy" violence will love (and even then, not beyond the 10 first minutes), guarantees that you will avoid using the targeted shot system at any price. It sucks, it's ugly, it's not funny, it's long et absolutely useless.
Worst of all, there's no way to skip it or deactivate it in the options. You will be then forced to endure these scenes not even worthy of Soldier of Fortune 3.
[...]
Lambda players will probably enjoy it. But, us? Well, we still cannot swallow it, this mucky heresy. Sure, I could destroy it, dip it into a vat of hatred just to clean the insult. But it wouldn't make it better. It wouldn't bring Black Isle back. So if you don't mind, I'm going to stop here and have a drink at the café of broken dreams.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
hahaha. Very interesting. I like that review, eloquent and thoughtful. CanardPC is a game review site?

Looks like I might not be buying fallout 3 after all, as a despise the "graphics over game play" attitude.
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
I believe it's a French or French-Canadian PC Gaming Magazine. http://www.canardpc.com

http://nma-fallout.com/ has a bunch of links to reviews/articles. Standard and expected stuff. Major console gaming magazines trip over themselves in the race to perform fellatio on Fallout3, while lesser-known pubs not reliant on advertising space call it decent, but shallow, weak, and nonsensical compared to the originals.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Liet, what are some of these lesser-known pubs? And is canardpc just ballsy...you'd think being a magazine that they'd be a corporate whore too.
 

ultimahwhat

Member
Aug 13, 2008
166
0
71
Well, I've already traded in some favorite PS2 games (my childhood soul) at GameStop in exchange for credit towards a Fallout 3 pre-order, so I guess there's no turning back now. I could exchange it for something else, but that won't bring back my beloved console RPGs...

Thus, I resolve to enjoy my Fallout 3 purchase, ignore the previous two classics that I never played, and savor every moment of my signature excruciatingly slow gameplay. If it takes devolving into a shallow, vapid gamer who likes pretty pictures to do so, then so be it. Surely, it'll be a better use of time and money than 4-5 of the terrible movies I've caught in theaters over the years (e.g. Soul Plane). Plus, it supposedly has fairly user-friendly DRM, which means I will play the hell out of Fallout 3 multiple times with multiple installs on multiple systems and like it each and every time. Yes, maybe this makes me a tool, but I refuse to regret this purchase!

Edit: + "y"
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
Originally posted by: Malladine
Liet, what are some of these lesser-known pubs? And is canardpc just ballsy...you'd think being a magazine that they'd be a corporate whore too.
I guess they are. Good for them!

Looks like there aren't many actual reviews yet, just first looks and previews. The general impression I've got over the past year is that the T-for-Teen console reviewers think it's a brilliant game and as deep as Tolstoy, while the people who've played the originals recognize that it's a drastic (and insultingly dumbed-down) departure from the first two.
http://nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=37350

I'll try to post some examples when I get home from work. It should be obvious I'm biased against it. I think Fallout 3 is an insult to my intelligence. "Sidekicks can actually die! You can blow up the thousands of abandoned nuclear cars whose atomic reactors haven't been scavenged! There are feral ghouls that look just like zombies and supermutants that look like the Hulk instead of misformed vat-bred freaks!" Wow, really Bethesda? That's amazing! Tell me more about your awesome consolized perversion of a great series!