The Never Ending Saga...Validate My Gaming Rig Take III

[Starbuck1975]

For numerous reasons, I keep delaying a decision to upgrade my gaming rig...the technology just always seems to move faster then my ability to keep up.

That being said, a while back I decided firmly on going with an Athlon 64 based system with an nforce4 ultra motherboard...the problem is that I never managed to decide on a motherboard that I felt comfortable with.

I am not an overclocker...I strictly play games...lots of them...and prefer a machine that runs stable at stock speeds...I also do some minor VHS to DVD (home movies) conversions, uploading of MP3s to my iPod, some basic photo editing in Adobe software, Microsoft Office applications, etc.

Basically a gaming rig with some home office requirements and a dab of multimedia work...nothing so strenuous where I need to multi-task, but as I tend to upgrade on a 3 year cycle, I like my systems to be somewhat future proof for gaming needs.

As for games, I play a mix of FPS, RPGs, and RTS...I dont play any online games like Battlefield or WoW, because MMOs are an evil addiction...that, and I am a sore loser.

Budget wise, I like to keep things in the $1000 to $1500 range.

Well, here is my latest build selection.
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT
ePOWER EPS12V 530Watts Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester
CORSAIR XMS-3500LLPRO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 433 (PC 3500)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150

Right now I dont plan on using the SLI capabilities of the MOBO, but may choose to in the future.

This puts me at around $1300...ironically, my last proposed build comes in at around $1000, and that build didnt include an SLI motherboard, X2 processor, or high end RAM...for the extra $300, might as well go for the high end system.

I can already salvage the optical drives, case and sound card from my current system, as well as two additional IDE hard drives.

Thoughts?

 

[ElFenix]

who is ePower?
i wouldn't spring for faster than 3200 ram, unless the price was really nice. often those ram chips have quite a bit higher latencies that similarly priced 3200 ram, which isn't made up for with the added bandwidth.

 

[Starbuck1975]

i wouldn't spring for faster than 3200 ram, unless the price was really nice. often those ram chips have quite a bit higher latencies that similarly priced 3200 ram, which isn't made up for with the added bandwidth.

I typically go with ValueRam, but the Corsair RAM mentioned in my build was designed with compatibility in mind on the A8N32-SLI Deluxe...from what I have read in reviews across the web, the combination is incredibly stable and fast at stock speeds...if you go to ASUS' website, they specifically recommend this RAM under the MOBO tech specs.

who is ePower?

Their power supplies came up as recommended on the latest AnandTech system guide...I could always go with an Antec PSU as well.

 

[bob4432]

ePOWER??? get a seasonic, fsp, enermax or something known.

also, no reason for the xms ram, just get some value ram from the manf of your choice

 

[Starbuck1975]

ePOWER??? get a seasonic, fsp, enermax or something known.

Fair enough...there are certainly plenty of viable PSU alternatives...I am more concerned about having enough juice for the system...530W seems reasonable, as most SLI MOBO and latest generation video card manufacturers recommend at least 430W.

also, no reason for the xms ram, just get some value ram from the manf of your choice

My original build had the Corsair ValueSelect 2GB dual channel kit...I have also used Crucial RAM in the past...regardless, the price differential between value RAM and high end RAM is not so significant to force a decision either way, especially when dealing with a 2x1GB scenario.

 

[smthmlk]

I've never heard of ePower. If stability is key (and it sounds like it is for you), then you cannot skimp on the PSU. I would rather pick up a 500w Seasonic/Fortron/PCPower&Cooling/OCZ and rest easy.

 

[ElFenix]

they recommend at least 430 watts because of cheapy $20 power supplies that claim 430 watts but couldn't sustain that on a cold day in hell.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I've never heard of ePower. If stability is key (and it sounds like it is for you), then you cannot skimp on the PSU. I would rather pick up a 500w Seasonic/Fortron/PCPower&Cooling/OCZ and rest easy.

That is reasonable...I am more concerned about the component mix...the PSU I simply pulled from the latest Anandtech system guide, but I dont plan on going with the budget option...I had never heard of ePower prior to today either.

That being said, I am more concerned about the following scenarios:
1) The perpetual dual core vs single core debate...there may not be a compelling reason to choose dual core over single core right now, but how about one or two years from now...as I tend to upgrade on a 3 year cycle, does dual core make sense for now.

2) SLI...I don't plan on using it now...I may never use it...but the ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe is the first socket 939 nforce4 ultra offering that I feel comfortable with...I typically stick with Abit or Asus, as I have had good luck with both companies in the past...this is the first Mobo from either company to receive glowing reviews...their other socket 939 offerings for nforce4 have been meh.

 

[TraumaRN]

For those of you wondering, ePower also makes PSUs for Tagan....they make very good quality PSUs

Notice mine is 480 watts and runs my system in sig plus 4 cooling fans and 2 cold cathodes without a hiccup

Although I checked your PSU out and it only had 20A on the 12V line, definitely not enough for your system, however the ePower Tagan for my system could probably/easily do the trick.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817101516

 

[Starbuck1975]

I goofed in the cut/copy/paste...the ePower Tagan was the recommended PSU, not the one mentioned in my original build list.

Any other users care to comment on my other two questions...specifically with regards to SLI and dual core?

 

[secretanchitman]

if you are an avid gamer and like high framerates and everything turned up to the MAX (AA and AF) and you go to lan parties/want to show off or just want 2 cards for the hell of it. go for SLI, but with 2x7800GTs...as the GTX and GTX512MB arent worth it for the price increase. but if you do casual gaming, or just dont feel the need for 2 video cards, by all means, 1 card is plenty for most people. SLI is mostly for enthusists and people who want the maximum framerates possible under the most graphics intensive programs (F.E.A.R, CoD2, HL2: Lost Coast).

dual core is starting to grow as i speak. 2 games already have patches for dual-core, quake 4 and CoD2. call of duty patch is "broken" so ive heard. you wont see THAT much difference between a single core and a dual-core in gaming. most 10 frames, but your video card will take care of that. single core will still be faster at stock than dual-core for sure. if you OC a dual core though, things might change into the dual cores favor. since you also do "some minor VHS to DVD (home movies) conversions, uploading of MP3s to my iPod, some basic photo editing in Adobe software, Microsoft Office applications, etc." it seems you would benefit greatly from dual-core rather than single core. i mean, sure single core is cheaper, but down the road, dual core will be much more usable and faster. and you will be able to multitask more (meaning run photoshop, MS word, burn a dvd/cd, etc) if you get a dual core. still, it doesnt mean you SHOULD get a dual core, but its nice to be futureproof down the road. its basically up to you. i would go dual-core just to future proof it, and maybe...just maybe if you get into overclocking, you can OC that cpu to better speeds. again, its up to you.

hope that helped, and what an awesome rig!

 

[Starbuck1975]

SLI is mostly for enthusists and people who want the maximum framerates possible under the most graphics intensive programs (F.E.A.R, CoD2, HL2: Lost Coast).

Thanks for the inputs.

I realize that for the time being, there isnt much of a compelling reason to go dual core beyond future proofing the system...I would expect that in the coming years, more games will take advantage of dual core.

As for SLI...no one has ever given me a straightforward answer to this, but what happens performance wise if you use an SLI capable motherboard to only run one video card...it seems that in the land of socket 939, most of the reputable MOBO manufacturers loaded their SLI Mobos with tons of features, but skimped out on their vanilla socket 939s.

If I only intend to run one video card, should I just decide on a socket 939, or should I still take advantage of the ASUS A8N32-SLI even if I choose not to utilize SLI?

 

[mc866]

IMHO SLI isn't worth it as an upgrade later. If you can find a non-SLI mobo that you like, why not go with that and use the money you save to go towards things like a better graphics card. Just my thoughts.

 

[Starbuck1975]

IMHO SLI isn't worth it as an upgrade later. If you can find a non-SLI mobo that you like, why not go with that and use the money you save to go towards things like a better graphics card. Just my thoughts.

The problem is largely my level of build experience...I have always gone with Abit and Asus largely because those boards tend to be a bit more friendly to those of us with some build experience, but not a comprehensive understanding that would enable us to troubleshoot some of the more complex problems that arise on other boards.

Unfortunately, neither Asus nor Abit released a favorable socket 939 board, at least based on reviews...some of the Asus SLI boards, however, have received rave reviews for stability and performance at stock speeds.

 

[mc866]

Try Epox or DFI, both reputable and have good reviews out there.

 

[seanp789]

Sounds like a decent midrange system. I would not call it high end, not even close.
For about the same price the Opteron 165 has 1MB x 2 cache and is a great overclocker.

If u can wait til the end of january the nvidia G71 and ATI R580 are expected to be released, that would be on the high end of things though.

 

[acole1]

4200+ or 4400+?.. if you can afford it

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Opteron 165 hands down. Costs about the same or less than a 3800+, and it overclocks better. How much is that PSU? I recommend the Seasonic S12-500 becaus of it's excellent efficiency, which will help pay for itself. SLI is completely useless unless you're getting 2 7800GTX 512MB's to get the best possible framerates possible. It's useless as an upgrade path, because by the time a 7800GT gets really cheap, 2 of them in SLI will perform like crap. You'd be much better off saving your money and buying a new card later. Get the EPoX 9nPA+ Ultra, MSI Neo4 Platinum, or DFI Lanparty Ultra-D. The EPoX overclocks very well at a low price, the MSI has lots of great features including RAID 5, and the DFI is the best nForce4 overclocking board on the market. Stick with value RAM to save some money. Don't get Corsair RAM if you're getting a DFI board though, as the 2 have been known to have incompatability issues.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Opteron 165 hands down. Costs about the same or less than a 3800+, and it overclocks better. How much is that PSU? I recommend the Seasonic S12-500 becaus of it's excellent efficiency, which will help pay for itself. SLI is completely useless unless you're getting 2 7800GTX 512MB's to get the best possible framerates possible. It's useless as an upgrade path, because by the time a 7800GT gets really cheap, 2 of them in SLI will perform like crap. You'd be much better off saving your money and buying a new card later. Get the EPoX 9nPA+ Ultra, MSI Neo4 Platinum, or DFI Lanparty Ultra-D. The EPoX overclocks very well at a low price, the MSI has lots of great features including RAID 5, and the DFI is the best nForce4 overclocking board on the market. Stick with value RAM to save some money. Don't get Corsair RAM if you're getting a DFI board though, as the 2 have been known to have incompatability issues.

Based on your recommendations, that drives me back to my original upgrade build as proposed a few months ago:

MSI NEO4 Platinum
eVGA Geforce 7800GT
Antec NeoPower ATX 480W Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Go with the dual core Opteron 165. Lots of games are already SMP aware like Quake 4, COD 2, and F.E.A.R. I think. Don't get that Antec PSU. I recommend a nice Fortron/Sparkle or Seasonic. Antec is alright, but it's not as good as the aforementioned brands. PC Power and Cooling is the best, they're too expensive for most people. Everything else looks fine.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Go with the dual core Opteron 165. Lots of games are already SMP aware like Quake 4, COD 2, and F.E.A.R. I think. Don't get that Antec PSU. I recommend a nice Fortron/Sparkle or Seasonic. Antec is alright, but it's not as good as the aforementioned brands. PC Power and Cooling is the best, they're too expensive for most people. Everything else looks fine.

The PSU is interchangeable...I have typically used Antec power supplies without a hitch, and I kind of like the cable management capabilities of the NeoPower...I'll check out the other brands you mentioned, as PSU concerns are apparently more prevalant for the power needs of modern hardware.

As for the Opteron, I have heard many people speak highly of them...what is the advantage of going Opteron over say a Athlon 64 or X2? I thought the Opteron was marketed and designed more for server applications?

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Exactly, so they're generally built to last 24/7, but they're essentially the same thing as Athlon 64's. People have been getting very high overclocks on them though, which is why they've been very highly recommended.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Exactly, so they're generally built to last 24/7, but they're essentially the same thing as Athlon 64's. People have been getting very high overclocks on them though, which is why they've been very highly recommended.

I guess the obvious question that follows would be the necessity of going dual core on an Opteron?

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Yes, as I previously mentioned, dual core isn't just for future proofing. Many current apps can already take advantage of the 2 cores, even some games like Quake 4 and CoD 2.

 

[CalamitySymphony]

Well, here is my latest build selection.
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT
ePOWER EPS12V 530Watts Power Supply
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester
CORSAIR XMS-3500LLPRO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 433 (PC 3500)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3200826AS 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150


Thoughts?

Some nice decisions there: Some MUST changes however:

Opteron 165 : @ Mwave or Zipzoomfly for only $300 ish
I'm sure even you'd feel comfortable overclocking this 200mhz to match the X2.

A different PSU, unless thats bought and your sure its good.

Cheaper RAM (Corsair VS) to save a buck, RAM performance doesn't make a diff.

And all that savings adds up to:

RAPTOR WD1500 150 GB!!!! WOOOH. This will be your ultimate component in your system . Available now on Ebay for $330 ish.

The HD will make your system faster than anybody else's, just because they have a slower HD, everything about the system slows down. For me, HD performance is usually top priority since it IS the slowest part of ANY system. (maybe not 80s systems but you get the point)