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The neanderthals... we killed them all

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Markbnj said:
Not terribly interesting review of what sounds like an interesting book that I haven't read.

http://www.openlettersmonthly.com/blame-the-dog/

The author of the reviewed book makes the case that we teamed up with canines and that gave us a hunting advantage, which we used to eradicate the neanderthals. It's an interesting idea, although the reviewer gets all mopey over her refusal to call it a genocide, which is just stupid.

But it did get me thinking about the neanderthals and why they aren't still here. They were strong, intelligent, had complex family and social structures, created art, buried their dead. In other words, they had crossed the line from animals to having a lot of the same advantages that we humans have. What could kill _all_ of them, and not kill us too? Seems like it either had to be us, or some disease that hit them and not us.
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You are right about all those except very likely the term "intelligent." They didn't have homo sapiens level of intelligence. They were around for probably longer than 120,000 years, had learned to fashion tools from stone, but their tools' sophistication did not advance over a period of longer than 100,000 years, according to the archeological record.

They were in competition with humans, who had an evolutionary advantage, relatively high intelligence, itself likely to chance mutations. We may have killed them intentionally (at times) but there doesn't seem to be evidence that this was the major cause of their eventual extinction. I got this from my recent reading of "The Sixth Extinction." They were likely a lot stronger than humans but not nearly as smart.
 
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mammador said:
if we did, so what?

OK. So all homo sapiens everywhere, until we get extinct, or move from Earth, or evolve into some other species, must feel "guilt" at what our distant ancestors did?

Isn't this like "white Americans are evil cos they enslaved black people centuries ago, and all of them have to pay today!!" but on a macro scale?
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I don't give a shit whether we killed them all or not, from a moral perspective. You obviously just skimmed the OP.
 
Mai72 said:
I'm currently watching Ape to Man: Evolution Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMqFivWTmk

I'm looking at Taung Child now. A baby ape/child fossil that was discovered in Africa. The missing link.

It's amazing to think what happened to the neanderthals.
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I've always thought so as well. I mean it's the only other species capable of rational thought that we know of in the universe, and they are fucking dead, partially due to our hand for sure. You can debate it I guess, but I highly doubt that we weren't killing the fuck out of them.

We know of no other intelligent life capable of creating complex societal structures, language, art, etc. Neanderthals existing is sort of the same ballpark of proof of aliens and contact with them. Certainly not that level because they were terrestrial, but the same sort of spectrum. Imagine if pockets of them survived into modern times. Human history and society could potentially be radically different.

I guess not really important though until enough dipshits care enough for Michael Bay to make a movie about it or something.
 
Yeah I figure our ancestors killed them all. From what I understand the main reason is that humans typically work together in much larger groups than neanderthals ever did. Beyond core family groups they seemed to be mostly loners. I've also seen speculation that despite their larger cranial capacities, they were still dumber than us, as evidenced by the quality and complexity of their art and tools. Never heard the domesticated canine theory. Couldn't hurt to have a scary beast run them around for a while before you perform the coup de gras though.

It had to be an interesting world to live in where there was a completely other species that shared many of our characteristics around though. Sad to think that if they lived now we probably wouldn't kill them. Too bad for them that they were around before we were really civilized.
 
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Bleh this thing hasnt even started talking about how cats domesticated us and then eventually demise of the human race and dogs to them.
 
SlitheryDee said:
Yeah I figure our ancestors killed them all. From what I understand the main reason is that humans typically work together in much larger groups than neanderthals ever did. Beyond core family groups they seemed to be mostly loners. I've also seen speculation that despite their larger cranial capacities, they were still dumber than us, as evidenced by the quality and complexity of their art and tools. Never heard the domesticated canine theory. Couldn't hurt to have a scary beast run them around for a while before you perform the coup de gras though.

It had to be an interesting world to live in where there was a completely other species that shared many of our characteristics around though. Sad to think that if they lived now we probably wouldn't kill them. Too bad for them that they were around before we were really civilized.
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Yeah this is basically where I come down on it. They had made it to a level of intelligence where I think it would have taken more than changes in climate, or competition for resources to kill all of them. The fact that there are none today seems to me to indicate one of three things: either we've misunderstood the record; we killed them all; or something else killed them all without killing us.
 
Last I heard, the latest science says we fucked them INTO our DNA. East Asians, apparently, have more of their DNA?
 
schmuckley said:
You know what? I'm going out on a limb here and saying they never even existed 😎

People have been people since the creation of the earth.
Be glad I can't find that Youtube link to the live people that look like "Neanderthals"
It's just another race.
Look like "Neanderthals" but speak and live in a tribal society.
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Yes, you are correct, ding ding ding!

I am your lord and saviour, gody godgod.
I created this earth and all the people during the creation. I put"Neanderthals" here to trick you. I made their DNA different so that your silly scientists get confused and think they are a separate race. But really they are just another race! ahhhahahahha! I am god, the Kreator and savior and lord of the realms.

I tried so hard to trick all yalls with my fossils and Australopithecus and homo habilis and homo erectus and by having constantly evolving viruses, bacteria, and millions of little evolution 'proofs' in every single living cell.. My artistry of twin helix's completely underappreciated.
 
Not me. I was home that day, you can ask my wife. I never had a thing against Neanderthals. Some of my best friends were Neanderthals! Well, maybe not my best friends, but I knew them.
 
SlitheryDee said:
Yeah I figure our ancestors killed them all. From what I understand the main reason is that humans typically work together in much larger groups than neanderthals ever did. Beyond core family groups they seemed to be mostly loners. I've also seen speculation that despite their larger cranial capacities, they were still dumber than us, as evidenced by the quality and complexity of their art and tools. Never heard the domesticated canine theory. Couldn't hurt to have a scary beast run them around for a while before you perform the coup de gras though.

It had to be an interesting world to live in where there was a completely other species that shared many of our characteristics around though. Sad to think that if they lived now we probably wouldn't kill them. Too bad for them that they were around before we were really civilized.
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Recent evidence shows this is wrong. Most researchers reject the idea they were less social or intelligent than our ancestors. That is a myth that festers among the layman.
 
People who say out ancestors where more illigent or social are comparing our selves today to the Neanderthal. But the fact is our tools at the time of Neanderthals were very basic, and we didn't have large social committees.
 
Wow. So, Vdubchaos killed all the Neanderthals. I hadn't known that. As science progresses, our knowledge gets more and more specific. It's a beautiful thing, that.
 
DCal430 said:
What likely happen is we out breed them. We out numbered them and assimilated them out of existence.
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Yeah I wouldn't give homosapiens to much credit for being more intelligent than anything. I doubt there is no way to tell for certain with the scant amount of evidence that exists as of now.
 
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